523 replies to this topic

[Sjorpha]

HiasRGB, on 25 June 2015 - 11:55 PM, said:

Groups of 2-4 Players in the Soloqueue. Only allow 8 or 12men Groups and drop them against other 8 or 12men.

Er...only allowing 8 or 12 mans is impossible because a 8 man needs a 4 man to make a complete team.

I would restrict group queue to a max of 8, so that 9-12 man groups were only possible in CW.

[Joseph Mallan]

Quote

Doesn't understand how its fun for stomping solos and small groups but that's how it is.

Doesn't understand how folks would like things to be easy.

I prefer when my job runs smoothly. I Love it when my wife and kids are healthy and happy.

In short, we like it when things go as planned. A group's objective is to win, have fun and BS with buddies. Not always in that order but you get the picture. I personally love it when nobody dies on my team. It rarely happens but when it does, yeah us!

[Alistair Winter]

Sjorpha, on 26 June 2015 - 01:33 AM, said:

Er...only allowing 8 or 12 mans is impossible because a 8 man needs a 4 man to make a complete team.
I would restrict group queue to a max of 8, so that 9-12 man groups were only possible in CW.

Another solution, of course, would be to only have groups for 2-4 players, and then do a separate queue for 8-man or 12-man groups, for 8v8 and 12v12 matches. In other words, unless you have exactly 8 or 12 players on a team, you would be in normal group queue with maximum 4 players per group.


Of course, it can be hard to get exactly 8 or 12 players. Back when there was a separate queue for 12-man groups, people were complaining that no one was playing. Without a queue system like we have in CW, where you can actually see how many people are available to play with, it might be risky to have a separate 8-man and 12-man queue. If, on the other hand, you could see exactly how many 8-man and 12-man teams were playing, and how many were looking for a match, it would be awesomesauce.

I for one would be a lot more interested in joining a group if that was the only way to play 8v8 without Premium time.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 26 June 2015 - 01:55 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Deathlike, on 25 June 2015 - 11:51 PM, said:

AFAIK, before Karl left... there is supposedly some modifier based on group size the alters the Elo value of the collect group (group weighing).

I doubt it was perfect or accurate, but it's there.

it wasn't implemented. He wanted to do it, but it never did happen.

[Black Ivan]

The O-ton on Russ statement is interesting to me. In purt he puts the blame for the miserable state of CW on this stompers, but at the same time admits that CW population is too low to approve the creation of a match maker.

Edited by Black Ivan, 26 June 2015 - 01:58 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Kilo 40, on 26 June 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

first show us proof that he underestimates how many "hardcore" fans enjoy coordinated 12-man games.

indeed.

Russ knows EXACTLY how many people play in 12 man groups.

If anything, I suspect that people underestimate how very many solo/small group players this game has.


Ultimately, though, I remember the 4 man group limit very clearly, and hating it. Having to tell a friend they couldn't play with us, or having to be the guy who has to do his own thing. It sucked.

Things are different today though. There's a good argument that CW exists for larger groups.

I'd argue a viable option would be going to three queues:

1) 12 12 full group only
2) 8v8 full group only
3) solo, 2-4 man groups.

[Alistair Winter]

Kilo 40, on 26 June 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

first show us proof that he underestimates how many "hardcore" fans enjoy coordinated 12-man games.

Let me rephrase it:
I think he underestimates how much they enjoy 12-man games, and how many tears there will be if public group queue is limited to 4 players.

Obviously he knows how many people play 12-man, he may even have some statistics on how money those people are spending in total and relative to the total annual income from MWO. Many of them may be former whales who have stopped spending, and many may be people who buy every mech pack.

But knowing this community to a certain extent, I think it's fairly safe to say that there will be a massive s***storm (by Darude) if they limit groups to 4 players. I think a lot of the 12-man players are hardcore players, and those are most likely to throw a hissy fit if their favourite type of gameplay is removed.

If he's going to infuriate that group of players, he should probably do it after the Steam release and not before. Scorned players are usually willing to spend a lot of time writing negative reviews.

Me personally, I have no horse in this race. Like I said earlier, I'm almost exclusively playing in the steering wheel underhive.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 26 June 2015 - 02:17 AM.

[kesmai]

Ok let's. Limit cw and group queues to 4 man groups. What happens if there are 4 mans that stomp over the enemy just like before. What will be the reaction of those who wanted the limit?

[PhoenixFire55]

Sjorpha, on 26 June 2015 - 01:33 AM, said:

Er...only allowing 8 or 12 mans is impossible because a 8 man needs a 4 man to make a complete team.

And what exactly is your problem with 8v8 matches?

kesmai, on 26 June 2015 - 02:13 AM, said:

Ok let's. Limit cw and group queues to 4 man groups. What happens if there are 4 mans that stomp over the enemy just like before. What will be the reaction of those who wanted the limit?

We've already done that before and certain 4-mans still stomped an entire enemy team at times. There was no reaction, because the reason was plain and simple ... lack of skill.

[Mycrus]

Seriously with ingame voip is it still a thing?

[Triordinant]

HiasRGB, on 25 June 2015 - 11:55 PM, said:

Groups of 2-4 Players in the Soloqueue. Only allow 8 or 12men Groups and drop them against other 8 or 12men.

It's already been proven that groups of ANY size screws up the solo queue. PGI said so and they can see the numbers that we can't. That's why the solo queue will forever be for solos only.

[kesmai]

Ha! I've got the solution: Easy mode. With energy shields and little crates that pop up and contain nukes. And a invulnerability module.
and i want pink flapping wings on my dire wolf and a group healing spell. Sorry I'm done taking this serious.

Edited by kesmai, 26 June 2015 - 03:31 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

My thought is...if only 1% are 10-12 Man drops, and another 6% are 5-9 man...then realistically, those 12 Man curbstomps people whine about can't be happening THAT often. Now mind you, I could see where it could or should get boring as heck for the 12 man, as you are unlikely to meet too many large/coordinated enough units to actually challenge you (let's labor under that false illusion that most players want to be challenged, instead of just getting participation rewards, even though we all know that's not true, lol) .....

would perhaps the solution be to clean up and speed up CW and make that the sole home of 12 mans? I mean, there is a reason they call it the "Casual" Queue.... so maybe it should cater more to the less organized casual players/small groups?

IDK, because TBH, anytime I take the time and effort and headache to run in 12 mans, I'm going to go full monty and play CW, personally.

[CyclonerM]

They should keep encouraging teamwork in a team game, not discourage it..

On the other hand, they could implement a "Trial of Possession" aka 1vs1 mode following Clan honor combat rules, so teamwork would be less important compared to the individual skill of the players.. And we could do something different

[TWIAFU]

Vellron2005, on 26 June 2015 - 01:09 AM, said:

Here's why 12-man premades should NOT ever be removed from CW and PUG group ques...

The reason is simple..

Becouse being in a large group that is organised and actually works together using some actual real-life military tactics brings amazing realism..

it makes us feel like we'r a part of something, like we's part of a team, and like there's a point to all this..

It would be even more so if taking planets in CW would mean something..

Just imagine what it must be like to be a leader of an actual unit, have command over other's actions and tactics, and actually achieving victory... knowing the assault in front of you and the ecm to your left have your back, and your LRM's have theirs..

DO NOT take that away from us...

What has been ignored from this discussion is if 12mans are not allowed, specifically in CW, how will planet ownership work? Who gets the planet if there are 3 4-man groups? Who gets the reward from the planet?

Three lances from different units, what unit gets the planet?

[kesmai]

Who will get the planet Then? Those with more trial mechs of Cause .

[TWIAFU]

kesmai, on 26 June 2015 - 02:13 AM, said:

Ok let's. Limit cw and group queues to 4 man groups. What happens if there are 4 mans that stomp over the enemy just like before. What will be the reaction of those who wanted the limit?

4 man will have to be removed.

Only 2man groups and solos.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

pug vs premades is not working, people getting angry, leave the game quicker then they should . you loose 12-2 4-5x times in a row and you are not willing to play more. Only rly hardcore players stay.... STEAM must get new things.

[Triordinant]

What I don't get is this: if they knew that 93% of MWO players are solo players and casual groups of 4 or less, why did they spend so much time, effort and money on a game mode that caters primarily to the remaining 7%?

[Bishop Steiner]

TWIAFU, on 26 June 2015 - 03:32 AM, said:

What has been ignored from this discussion is if 12mans are not allowed, specifically in CW, how will planet ownership work? Who gets the planet if there are 3 4-man groups? Who gets the reward from the planet?

Three lances from different units, what unit gets the planet?

I'm pretty sure the 12 man thought is mostly focused on Casual, not CW drops.

It would be absolute idiocy to remove 12 man from CW, but tbh, I really don't care if they remove them from Casual. Heck, I wouldn't mind Casual going back to 8v8. Hitreg and FPS would likely improve greatly for it.