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#21 R Razor

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 02:11 PM

View PostBulletsponge0, on 26 June 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

what people forget is that clan XL engines over a 250 rating all have LOCKED heat sinks...making them heavier than their IS XL counterparts. THough not as heavy as STD engines its still a weight penalty to the cXL that cannot be avoided, and seems like a fair trade off for the ability to survive 1 ST loss....



Yeah, having a couple of extra heatsinks to help cool a mech that generally needs all the help it can get staying cool is definitely a fair exchange for not dying when a side torso is blown off..............seems legit.

#22 Bulletsponge0

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 02:49 PM

View PostR Razor, on 26 June 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:



Yeah, having a couple of extra heatsinks to help cool a mech that generally needs all the help it can get staying cool is definitely a fair exchange for not dying when a side torso is blown off..............seems legit.

or when using a gauss having unneeded heat sinks instead of ammo...

#23 R Razor

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 02:51 PM

View PostBulletsponge0, on 26 June 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

or when using a gauss having unneeded heat sinks instead of ammo...



Couch it in any terms you'd like.........Heat Sinks are not a liability in any way shape or form..........dying when a side torso is destroyed is...........not dying when you lose a side torso while running a Clan XL is not even close to being counterbalanced by having to mount two extra heat sinks........if you think it is then push to allow the IS to pay a 2 ton penalty on their XL engines and survive a side torso loss.............

Edited by R Razor, 26 June 2015 - 02:52 PM.


#24 Bulletsponge0

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 03:09 PM

View PostR Razor, on 26 June 2015 - 02:51 PM, said:



Couch it in any terms you'd like.........Heat Sinks are not a liability in any way shape or form..........dying when a side torso is destroyed is...........not dying when you lose a side torso while running a Clan XL is not even close to being counterbalanced by having to mount two extra heat sinks........if you think it is then push to allow the IS to pay a 2 ton penalty on their XL engines and survive a side torso loss.............

Ok...then increase the heat of IS weapons as well

#25 R Razor

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 03:30 PM

View PostBulletsponge0, on 26 June 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

Ok...then increase the heat of IS weapons as well



Sure, as soon as you increase the weight and crit space requirements of clan weapons..........or is it that you want your cake and you want to be able to eat it too?

Agenda perhaps?

#26 Bulletsponge0

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 03:35 PM

View PostR Razor, on 26 June 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:



Sure, as soon as you increase the weight and crit space requirements of clan weapons..........or is it that you want your cake and you want to be able to eat it too?

Agenda perhaps?

nope...just pointing out that you can't focus on one thing and claim "thats why they are OP"

there is far far more to the balance issue than just clan XL engines....

#27 R Razor

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 04:38 PM

View PostBulletsponge0, on 26 June 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

nope...just pointing out that you can't focus on one thing and claim "thats why they are OP"

there is far far more to the balance issue than just clan XL engines....



Pretty sure I didn't say they were OP and if it read that way then I apologize.........but claiming that losing a side torso and surviving is balanced by being forced to carry 2 extra heat sinks is a bit asinine and that is what I was responding to.

#28 Bulletsponge0

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 05:09 PM

View PostR Razor, on 26 June 2015 - 04:38 PM, said:



Pretty sure I didn't say they were OP and if it read that way then I apologize.........but claiming that losing a side torso and surviving is balanced by being forced to carry 2 extra heat sinks is a bit asinine and that is what I was responding to.

when you add the added heat, longer burn times, quirks, etc...things are pretty balanced

#29 PowerKill Necron

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 05:49 PM

The Clan XL engines are what make most clan mechs better than IS mechs. It's not the weapons, it's the engines 100%. IS have great weapons, but are ponderously slow. What I would not give to have IS XL that could zombie.

#30 El Bandito

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:01 PM

View PostMcgral18, on 26 June 2015 - 08:40 AM, said:

Is it, by chance, because two Clam mechs were just released?


Under normal circumstances, they're generally pretty even in the PUG LIFE.



Events and new robots are not normal circumstances.



Depends on the class. In normal circumstances, the Heavy queue is mostly filled with Clan mechs such as Timbies, Hellbies, Mad Dogs, and the Epic ******* is guaranteed to stick around for a long time. I see only smattering of the Hoppers and Thunderbutts, in comparison.

Seeing how the most popular, and arguably the best class in the entire game is tilted towards Clan mechs, it basically sums up the overall player preference.

I imagine soon the Light queue will be filled with Arctic Cheetos, and stay that way for a long time. Wolfhound will be only fraction as popular in comparison.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 June 2015 - 06:07 PM.


#31 Nightshade24

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:05 PM

Because for a long time it's mainly IS mechs over Clans. And 2 clan mechs for a total of 8 chassis have JUST been released earlier and soon 2 more chassis with another 8 (total: 16) chassis out there.

Then resistance II comes out and then it's 75% IS ... then Clan IIC mechs out, 75% clans... then the Raptor comes out, 75% IS.... etc

#32 MechaBattler

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:18 PM

When I do get a chance to drop. Especially in my Malinche. I take distinctpleasure in destroying Timberwolves.

And I suspect I'll do the same with Ebons.

Edited by MechaBattler, 26 June 2015 - 06:18 PM.


#33 FupDup

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:21 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 26 June 2015 - 06:01 PM, said:

Depends on the class. In normal circumstances, the Heavy queue is mostly filled with Clan mechs such as Timbies, Hellbies, Mad Dogs, and the Epic ******* is guaranteed to stick around for a long time. I see only smattering of the Hoppers and Thunderbutts, in comparison.

Seeing how the most popular, and arguably the best class in the entire game is tilted towards Clan mechs, it basically sums up the overall player preference.

I imagine soon the Light queue will be filled with Arctic Cheetos, and stay that way for a long time. Wolfhound will be only fraction as popular in comparison.

I don't think it's fair to classify the Mad Dawg with the best Clan heavies, because of its known durability issues and low hardpoints...

The Cauldron Born however is a legit candidate.

#34 El Bandito

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:46 PM

View PostFupDup, on 26 June 2015 - 06:21 PM, said:

I don't think it's fair to classify the Mad Dawg with the best Clan heavies, because of its known durability issues and low hardpoints...

The Cauldron Born however is a legit candidate.


I never said anything about Mad Dog being a great Heavy. I only said that Mad Dog is frequent in the Heavy queue, along with the others, thus contributing to the Heavy class queue's majority being Clan mechs.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 June 2015 - 06:47 PM.


#35 FupDup

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:47 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 26 June 2015 - 06:46 PM, said:

I never said anything about Mad Dog being a great Heavy. I only said that Mad Dog is frequent in the Heavy queue, along with the others.

Meh, my own anecdotes indicate that I don't see them all that much more than the average joe heavy.

Edited by FupDup, 26 June 2015 - 06:50 PM.


#36 El Bandito

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:50 PM

View PostFupDup, on 26 June 2015 - 06:47 PM, said:

Meh, my own antedotes indicate that I don't see them all that much more than the average joe heavy.


That's a new English term I do not recognize, perhaps you meant anecdote. The mech is still being used from my screenshot review.

#37 FupDup

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 06:50 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 26 June 2015 - 06:50 PM, said:

That's a new English term I do not recognize, perhaps you meant anecdote. The mech is still being used from my screenshot review.

The typos strike again! :\

#38 Y E O N N E

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 07:09 PM

View PostBulletsponge0, on 26 June 2015 - 05:09 PM, said:

when you add the added heat, longer burn times, quirks, etc...things are pretty balanced


The longer burn times don't mean anything because the lasers are doing more damage per second for that duration than their Inner Sphere counterparts with only two exceptions: Medium Pulse Laser and Large Pulse Laser.

Even then, the former has a steep range penalty and the latter has a steep weight penalty.

The Clan arsenal only runs hot when you take more firepower than a typical IS 'Mech in your weight-class can. If you want to avoid running hot, I suggest you limit your laser builds to a top end of around 42 points of damage on anything lighter than 80 tons and a top end of around 36 on anything lighter than 55 tons. You'd be amazed at how well you can do when you can fire more often instead of trying to remove a side in one blast, every blast.

Quirks do not fully compensate, either. An IS ML burning for 0.8 seconds after a 10% duration quirk is only doing a few hundredths of a point more damage than a C-ERML over its burn duration and still does not match the range at all. The heat quirks typically do okay with matching against the Clan cap and dissipation when looking at number of lasers, but not when comparing damage done and at what range it can be done.

It's not all doom and gloom and IS 'Mechs are plenty playable, but in the tryhard zone it's pretty much all Clan all the time because the tech is, simply, better.

#39 Greenjulius

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Posted 26 June 2015 - 07:14 PM

I don't really play IS mechs anymore because 80% are at a big disadvantage over clans. I make probably 25% more c-bills per match running Invasion clan mechs rather than IS heroes. Amusingly, even the additional 20% on top these past few weekends give me little reason to run IS mechs.

Clan XL is the reason. I don't see any end in sight for clan dominance until some kind of middle ground is reached.

Edited by Greenjulius, 26 June 2015 - 07:20 PM.






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