46 replies to this topic

[Soy]

Dirk Le Daring, on 27 June 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

They are identical.

What?

I'm sayin what if you paid $500 for a gold mech but some other variant has a CT quirk you'd rather use, that's all.

Edited by Soy, 27 June 2015 - 07:11 PM.

[Telmasa]

The second option is most plausible, from my perspective. I don't see what's wrong with swapping around omnipods if you want a certain build, you're trading away something - profitability - in order to get something else that isn't necessarily better, just better for what you want to do; this especially isn't a problem if the "Balance 2.0" thing is done right.

[SirLANsalot]

Wintersdark, on 27 June 2015 - 06:37 AM, said:

yeah, it's a non starter. Having hero omni mechs have locked pods AND locked internals would mean they're simply garbage.


Much more likely, I think, is clan hero's work exactly like the EXE-D right now. The only way to get the hero omnipods is to buy the mech, but it's a normal omni mech otherwise. 30% cbill bonus attached to the CT.

I was assume so myself, however the issue I have with the EXE-D is you can't buy the omni pod for them, you have to swap out its pods for them to be available for your others. The KFX-C works fine, that one came out later and its Left Arm finally is available, and can be bought normally.

Clan Hero Omnis would have there special pods, but you wouldn't be able to buy them unless you owned the mech already, and even then, I know people will put whatever optimal build they want on the Hero FOR the C-bill bonuses. Hell I do that now with the Invasion mechs because I want to farm C-bills.

[Setun]

Ace Selin, on 27 June 2015 - 05:00 AM, said:

As i see it there are 2 likely ways PGI will create Clan Hero omnimechs.
Seeing as IS Heroes are never the best variant....

1) Clan Heroes will have locked omnipods and be a different variant, that is not superior to the current in game variants.
- i suspect this will occur.

2) Clan Heroes will not have locked omnipods and be a variant, that is not superior or the best of the current in game variants., but to get the 30% cbill boost you need to combine all the omnipods from the Hero variant. The less omnipods from the Hero variant you have the lower the Cbill % increase. CT 5%, Head 5%, Left arm 5%, Right arm 5%, Left leg 5%, Right leg 5%. So the more non Hero omnipods you have the lower the cbill percentage extra is, down to as low as 5% extra if you only use the Hero CT. Also the extra cbill percentage for the omnipods only activates when attached to a Hero CT so adding a Hero Left arm to a standard variant gives no extra cbills.


Peoples thoughts?

Clan heros would work the same as the (I) variants; whatever omnipods you have on it wouldn't matter, the chassis itself gives the c-bill boost.

[bad arcade kitty]

Setun, on 27 June 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

Clan heros would work the same as the (I) variants; whatever omnipods you have on it wouldn't matter, the chassis itself gives the c-bill boost.

sounds the most logical

pgi probably don't like it because it doesn't give them a sense of being unique... i dunno they can add a custom geo on the ct as well as some interesting ct hardpoints

[Wintersdark]

SirLANsalot, on 27 June 2015 - 07:12 PM, said:

I was assume so myself, however the issue I have with the EXE-D is you can't buy the omni pod for them, you have to swap out its pods for them to be available for your others. The KFX-C works fine, that one came out later and its Left Arm finally is available, and can be bought normally.

Clan Hero Omnis would have there special pods, but you wouldn't be able to buy them unless you owned the mech already, and even then, I know people will put whatever optimal build they want on the Hero FOR the C-bill bonuses. Hell I do that now with the Invasion mechs because I want to farm C-bills.

That's exactly what I meant, though, with the EXE-D comment. Not that the pods would become available, but rather who the EXE-D is right now - You got the pods from buying the mech, you only have one of each pod, and you can't buy more.

[Ace Selin]

Ultimatum X, on 27 June 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

I see IIC mechs as the route they will take for Clan Heroes as those mechs will not have customizable hardpoints.

The more i think about it, the more i think you may be right.

As of now and likely forever all Clan mechs can be purchased A La Carte or in a pack (the same is not true for IS mechs) & thus you can forever get 30% cbill clan mechs with these (I) variants, at a price.

If Clan Heroes were to resemble these (I) variants less people would likely purchase the more expensive packages / A La Carte mechs, which im sure is something PGI wouldn't want.

But IIC Hero mechs could work as you would be able to have variants like their IS counterparts that never came in packs.


( I for one would buy a Hero Highlander)

Setun, on 27 June 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

Clan heros would work the same as the (I) variants; whatever omnipods you have on it wouldn't matter, the chassis itself gives the c-bill boost.

If that's the case (essentially giving a 30% Cbill boost to any Clan mech or any Clan mech build, they will need to give all IS mechs the ability to get the 30% Cbill bonus somehow too.

And thats when id buy the "module for 30% Cbill boost" for my JM6-DD, and likely never play another mech ever again.

Edited by Ace Selin, 27 June 2015 - 07:59 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Ace Selin, on 27 June 2015 - 07:44 PM, said:

The more i think about it, the more i think you may be right.

As of now and likely forever all Clan mechs can be purchased A La Carte or in a pack (the same is not true for IS mechs) & thus you can forever get 30% cbill clan mechs with these (I) variants, at a price.

If Clan Heroes were to resemble these (I) variants less people would likely purchase the more expensive packages / A La Carte mechs, which im sure is something PGI wouldn't want.

But IIC Hero mechs could work as you would be able to have variants like their IS counterparts that never came in packs.

( I for one would buy a Hero Highlander)

i dont agree, though they may make IIC heros, i would like to see OmniMech Heros,
i would like PGI to Invent new OmniMech Variants to fill Gaps in Weak OmniMechs,
i think OmniMech Heros could Very well help with that, and it would work,

and before someone says Well thats P2W because i have to Pay to Get X/Y/Z,
all i have to say is (LCT-PiratesBane, JR7-Oxide, BJ-Arrow, QKD-IV, STK-Misery),
all have something the others dont, but its not really better just diffrent,

i would rather be unable to Place Hero OmniPods on non Hero OmniMechs,
then not have any OmniMech Heros at all as i feel they would add something more to MWO,

[Ace Selin]

Andi Nagasia, on 27 June 2015 - 07:53 PM, said:

(LCT-PiratesBane, JR7-Oxide, BJ-Arrow, QKD-IV, STK-Misery),
all have something the others dont, but its not really better just diffrent,

Bad hardpoints on IS mechs cant be changed though. But if i could get an Arrow with a 30% Cbill boost that had 6 laser Hard points (effectively a Clan omnimech) id buy one tomorrow. Same for many other Heroes if i could change their Hard points, because then i could make them optimal to my style and to the meta if i wanted.

Andi Nagasia, on 27 June 2015 - 07:53 PM, said:

i would rather be unable to Place Hero OmniPods on non Hero OmniMechs,
then not have any OmniMech Heros at all as i feel they would add something more to MWO

But Clan mechs can uniquely use the CT only of an ominmech to still be called that mech, so then get 30% Cbill CT and build the best in game build that any other non hero omnimech allows, as CTs dont have huge diversity anyway, its more the arms and side torsos. I could see this work if option 2 was brought in though, 5% Cbill drop for every non Hero omnipod on the Hero CT, provided the Hero omnimech had middling Hard points and generally worse quirks than their standard counterparts, which would be like most IS Heroes which for the most part have poorer, less or more asinine quirks, like that pretty useless Arrow MG quirk.

Edited by Ace Selin, 27 June 2015 - 08:13 PM.

[Chuanhao]

I like the idea of distributing the 30% across the various omnipods.

That makes it 4.25% per pod not including centre torso.

You can only get the omnipods that come with bonuses if you buy the hero mech. But u can then use the pods on any other Variant for the % bonus.

To ensure that nobody complains that the hero pods confer a super advantage, said pods can still be bought for cbills but without cbill bonus

The alternative of allowing only the cbill effect to happen when all of the correct pods are used with the correct CT is too restrictive. It does not allow the benefit of being omni. Tying the full bonus to the CT dowsnt work either. Why would I play another other CT unless I really need that CT ballistic or energy slots which the hero CT may or may not have? So a true alternative is to reduce the pod bonus per pod, and only allowing the true 30% if the full hero mexh is selected. That still allows a player to change pods with only a slight penalty.

[bad arcade kitty]

Chuanhao, on 27 June 2015 - 11:54 PM, said:

I like the idea of distributing the 30% across the various omnipods.

That makes it 4.25% per pod not including centre torso.

You can only get the omnipods that come with bonuses if you buy the hero mech. But u can then use the pods on any other Variant for the % bonus.

To ensure that nobody complains that the hero pods confer a super advantage, said pods can still be bought for cbills but without cbill bonus

The alternative of allowing only the cbill effect to happen when all of the correct pods are used with the correct CT is too restrictive. It does not allow the benefit of being omni. Tying the full bonus to the CT dowsnt work either. Why would I play another other CT unless I really need that CT ballistic or energy slots which the hero CT may or may not have? So a true alternative is to reduce the pod bonus per pod, and only allowing the true 30% if the full hero mexh is selected. That still allows a player to change pods with only a slight penalty.

so it will be an inferior version of (l) mech, right

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 28 June 2015 - 02:48 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

I think clan heroes will either be locked and not the best variant, or if you remove so much as one omni pod you forfeit all bonuses, the same as you do with the XP bonus

I suspect it will be the second option so you'll be paying upward 6000 mc for a fancy Camo.

I don't know how others feel about this, I bought I.S heroes on the basis of it being a different build, even if not the best and a fancy camo, which ironically until the Pheonix Event I changed the colours of almost first day, but i'm unsure I want to pay out that amount of cash, for a build I can already make.

The first option of locked pods well its as others have said it stops being an omnimech.

This coming with the IIC announments also makes me think that there is a possibility that there won't be Omni hero's but the first clan hero will be one of the four announced.

I can't remember if there has been a call by Russ that there is going to be a hero clan soon, but I certainly haven't seen any OMG its going to be a Timberwolf threads which I would think will be the first clan hero if omni mechs will ever have one, its to much a money maker.

[charov]

There's only one way to create a balanced hero clan imo: monitors are freely available for everyone via cbills but the CT is mc only and it gives the usual bonuses.
Then they introduce some mechanic to promote the stock build, like +3% cbills in such case on top of the common bonus.

[Andi Nagasia]

red devil2, on 28 June 2015 - 04:39 AM, said:

There's only one way to create a balanced hero clan imo: monitors are freely available for everyone via cbills but the CT is mc only and it gives the usual bonuses.
Then they introduce some mechanic to promote the stock build, like +3% cbills in such case on top of the common bonus.

well what about Invasion Variants? they have the 30% locked to the CT,
I think they Should be Like that, but you Cant Buy OmniHeroPods,
(you only get 1 of each OmniPod with the Hero)

and before anyone says that OmniHeros will take away from Wave1-2-3 sales,
remember your Buying the Pack for the Camo to show you Supported the Game,
ya Viability helps but if you like MWO enough to want to Support it then you do,
Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 28 June 2015 - 05:16 PM.

[charov]

If you don't allow the free cbills purchase of the pods, you can easily fall into the P2W trap.
Eg: let's say that the timber-A is the next hero. Do you imagine the amount of rants against the high-mounted energy torso? :/

[Ace Selin]

bad arcade kitty, on 28 June 2015 - 02:47 AM, said:

so it will be an inferior version of (l) mech, right

That would indeed be how it would have to be, as pretty much all IS Heroes are inferior to their F,R, P, stock versions etc

[RaptorSix]

I'm just glad to see some chatter about this. As a founding member I was excited about the possibility of clan heros once the IS ones started to roll out. I understand that 3/4 of the players favor IS, and please correct me if I've made an error, so I see why the IS is getting more treatment. I have some cash I want to invest with but until I see some clan heros...

[Khobai]

Ideally the way clan hero mechs would work is they would have their own unique omnipods that give set bonus quirks. That would reward you for running the hero mech in its pure form with all its original omnipods and penalize you for swapping out omnipods from other variants (but wouldnt prevent you from swapping omnipods outright)

So for example something like this:
2/8 hero omnipods = -5% energy cooldown
4/8 hero omnipods = -5% energy heat generation
6/8 hero omnipods = +5% turn speed
8/8 hero omnipods = +30% cbill bonus (would only get the cbill bonus in its pureform)

The problem with that though is that theyd have to balance the game so clan mechs can have quirks too. Right now a lot of clan mechs dont get quirks or get negative quirks.

Edited by Khobai, 08 September 2015 - 03:10 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Khobai, on 08 September 2015 - 03:00 PM, said:

Ideally the way clan hero mechs would work is they would have their own unique omnipods that give set bonus quirks. That would reward you for running the hero mech in its pure form with all its original omnipods and penalize you for swapping out omnipods from other variants (but wouldnt prevent you from swapping omnipods outright)

The problem with that though is that theyd have to balance the game so clan mechs can have quirks too.

Clan OmniMechs already have Quirks, and Set Bonuses so i dont see what the problem is,

[Khobai]

Quote

Clan OmniMechs already have Quirks, and Set Bonuses so i dont see what the problem is,

The problem is that a lot of clan mechs dont have quirks at all or have negative quirks. Some clan mechs dont get quirks because theyre too good already. They would have to balance the game better so that all clan mechs could get positive quirks.

Edited by Khobai, 08 September 2015 - 03:07 PM.