27 replies to this topic

[Mcgral18]

Since I went over the Hunch in the Dual Gauss Overlord thread, I guess I'll just go to the Orion



He comes stock with Ferro, Endo and a STD300 engine. That leaves him running 71 Kph with 34 tons of pod space.

Upgrading to a cXL300 gives him 43.5 tons of pod space at 71 Kph, or a XL375 at 32.5 tons of pod space (+5 to Timby due to heatsinks).


He loses on hardpoints compared to the Timby, as he can't Dual Gauss very well. Not to say he can't do acceptably, but nothing extra ordinary in the stock IIC variant.

Head: x
LA: 1M 1E
LT: 1M
CT: x
RT: 1B
RA: 1E

So, 2E, 2M, 1B, and up to 44 tons of guns.


Using a XL350 over a XL375 allows for 4.5 tons more guns, at 83 Kph. 36.5 tons total.


Loadout wise...well, 2 LPLs, and a 12 ton Dakka brings you to 24 tons. Ammo to 27.


Using the 350XL, you can get 2 LPLs, Gauss(35) and 19 Double heatsinks, while running 83 Kph.

Any 12 ton Dakka can be used here, but with the heat generation of LPLs, might be best to keep it.



As for variants...there aren't any. PGI will have to make 2 of them. In fact, only the Jenner has 3 different, valid, variants. PGI has to make up half of the 12 mechs themselves.
In the Hunch and Highlander's case, there are variants, but ATMs and Heavy Lasers.


Anyways, the other variants could be very powerful if PGI wants them to. In fact... this could be the first mech to fit 2 Gauss rifles in the same side torso if they give it something with 2 MGs. It has the pod space to use a STD engine to allow for it, if they maintain floating crits.



Anyways...I don't see the stock IIC Orion being grand, but it shouldn't be too bad, having the best of the Clam weapons, and the pod space to use them. Mounts are mediocre, and that's what brings it down a notch, along with the not so great hardpoints.

Still, nothing to ignore, as the 2LPL Gauss is a popular enough Timby build.
Other variants might create good robots.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

What I'm actually hoping is some tech updates. Many of the IIc mechs have updated weaponry, which would really be nice.

[Juodas Varnas]

Poor IS orion.
I guess it will get even less use than it is getting now.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 27 June 2015 - 11:18 AM.

[Wintersdark]

I think it'll be pretty great for me. Unfortunately low hardpoint locations, but I really like combined builds with a mix of lasers, missiles and ballistics.

What I like best about these IIC mechs is I'm not stuck wasting(IMHO! YMMV and other acronyms) tonnage on absurdly large engines.

Orion IIC with a cXL300? Yes plz.

[Deathlike]

Original Orion is bad, so the Clan version will probably end up being better, but then again it's still an Orion.

[Wintersdark]

Deathlike, on 27 June 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

Original Orion is bad, so the Clan version will probably end up being better, but then again it's still an Orion.

Yeah, the problems with the Orion have nothing to do with weaponry, and everything to do with hardpoint locations and geometry. Those problems will remain with the Orion IIC.

I'm ok with that, though.

[Mcgral18]

Deathlike, on 27 June 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

Original Orion is bad, so the Clan version will probably end up being better, but then again it's still an Orion.

Like I said, if PGI gives us sufficient hardpoints on the other 2 variants, we could get a good robot.


Or at least a Dual Gauss Heavy robot, with lots of other stuff and not stripping armour. It's in their hands now.

[Juodas Varnas]

Wintersdark, on 27 June 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

Yeah, the problems with the Orion have nothing to do with weaponry, and everything to do with hardpoint locations and geometry. Those problems will remain with the Orion IIC.

I'm ok with that, though.

IS Orion would be a pretty sweet mech if it could use the Clan XL engine...

[Wintersdark]

Juodas Varnas, on 27 June 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

IS Orion would be a pretty sweet mech if it could use the Clan XL engine...

Yeah, the Clam XL is probably the single largest balance issue with IS v. Clans. Every IS mech would be awesome with a Clam XL.

[RandomExponent1]

Mcgral18, on 27 June 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

basically my whole issue with this concept artwork is the hitboxes. which overall are not that big of a deal considering that only the missle arm is really going to suffer after the mech is released. That is unless the launcher is like the timberwolf's "ears" where it is smaller/non-existent when nothing is equipped

[Mcgral18]

Rand Hopler, on 27 June 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

basically my whole issue with this concept artwork is the hitboxes. which overall are not that big of a deal considering that only the missle arm is really going to suffer after the mech is released. That is unless the launcher is like the timberwolf's "ears" where it is smaller/non-existent when nothing is equipped

Pretty sure it will; same design as the Arctic Cheetah, so we'll find out next month.

[LordBraxton]

Wintersdark, on 27 June 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

Yeah, the Clam XL is probably the single largest balance issue with IS v. Clans. Every IS mech would be awesome with a Clam XL.

QFT

[PowerKill Necron]

Wintersdark, on 27 June 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

Yeah, the Clam XL is probably the single largest balance issue with IS v. Clans. Every IS mech would be awesome with a Clam XL.

Yup, CXL would fix the large imbalance between IS and Clan mechs. Clan could still carry more gun but the speed issue would be negated. Which is the largest issue with IS mech... Too damn slow.

[Wintersdark]

PKNecron, on 27 June 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

Yup, CXL would fix the large imbalance between IS and Clan mechs. Clan could still carry more gun but the speed issue would be negated. Which is the largest issue with IS mech... Too damn slow.

is mechs aren't slow, people build them slow. They choose to be slow.

The clan advantage via clan XL isn't speed, it's durability. Is mechs with XL engines are very fragile, whereas clan Mechs with their Xl's aren't. Death requiring two ST basically makes them like IS standard engines, except at greatly reduced tonnage cost.

While there's a lot of debate about clam vs IS weapons (let's not go into that now) the engine difference is enormous and a flat, inarguable upgrade. I still firmly believe Clan Xl's should suffer a severe speed penalty on ST loss - and even then, they'd still be flatly superior to IS XL's

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 27 June 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

I think it'll be pretty great for me. Unfortunately low hardpoint locations, but I really like combined builds with a mix of lasers, missiles and ballistics.

What I like best about these IIC mechs is I'm not stuck wasting(IMHO! YMMV and other acronyms) tonnage on absurdly large engines.

Orion IIC with a cXL300? Yes plz.

Guess I don't mind being "stuck" as mobility usually means more than raw firepower. (Just ask the DWFs left behind in the usual PUG NASCAR).

But am wondering what other balancing limiters will have to occur, beyond just lack of hardpoint inflation. Full IS Battlemech Customization IMO, would still be pretty much too strong. Am going to be very curious to see how this progresses.

What's funny, and kind of stupid? These are second line mechs. Given to freeborn, old and disgraced warriors (accept the Orion IIC. Which is considered an honor in Clan Wolf...and NEVER MODIFIED by the Pilot).

If the Clans find it unacceptable to waste resources letting ristars and blood named trueborn warriors upgrade their Omnis (it's not some mystical handwavium that makes it impossible to do so) there is ZERO chance the Clans would allow their freebirths to do so in their second line machines.

Shame that we are going so far from canon that Non Wolves are going to be using Orion IICs, and that second rate warriors get more freedom and benefit out of their machines than the premiere clan warriors.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 27 June 2015 - 03:05 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

ITs so ugly.

[PowerKill Necron]

PKNecron, on 27 June 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

Yup, CXL would fix the large imbalance between IS and Clan mechs. Clan could still carry more gun but the speed issue would be negated. Which is the largest issue with IS mech... Too damn slow.

I think speed is the key because more speed means harder to hit those ST. Either way. whether it is speed or durability CXL are 1000x better than IS XL and the single biggest Imbalance between IS and Clan mechs.

[LordKnightFandragon]

PKNecron, on 27 June 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

Yup, CXL would fix the large imbalance between IS and Clan mechs. Clan could still carry more gun but the speed issue would be negated. Which is the largest issue with IS mech... Too damn slow.

Lol, you let IS get CLan XLs and IS would totally be absolutely dominate over the clans.

They have more PPD, faster beam times and better heat efficiency.

Clans get negligible increases in damage for big jumps in duration, ALOT more spread, jam chance on UACs, LBXs are just a joke. About the only advantage clans actually have, and it barely counts for anything anymore, is less weight/size of stuff.

Either of my ZEU with a Clan XL? I could just stuff more ammo or heat sinks into them, maybe some more guns, and well, that would just be mean.

[Chuanhao]

Now we just need the Perseus to complete the Trinity.

[Water Bear]

Much as I love the 4 Onions that I own, I can't see this one being viewed any differently by the clan tech users than the current Orion is by the Inner Sphere users.