91 replies to this topic

[TWIAFU]

Alan Davion, on 27 June 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Yes, I went there.

The rules cannot be so iron-clad as you seem to think, otherwise PGI would simply take every complaint and just immediately ban the person named in them without looking over all the telemetry from the game.

And if that were the case, the player base would be 1/10th what it is right now. There has to be some degree of flexibility to the rules, and there has to be some exceptions.

I only read what is put into print, you know, what is actually there instead of what I want to or think should be there.

Immediately ban? Now you are just making exaggerated claims to try to bolster you view. You know they do not immediatly ban, you know they review these. And since you read the very statement by PGI, you read the words willfully and repeatedly. Since I am guess you are over the age of 10, you understand what those words mean.

Now, if you want to get PGI to list exceptions to the rules, go for it but do not hold your breath.

[Raggedyman]

Alistair Winter, on 28 June 2015 - 12:45 AM, said:

Nothing new, but still a lot of players who maintain that you can do whatever you want in a match, as long as you're not abusing game mechanics (e.g. riding other mechs) or shooting teammates. A lot of people feel that powering down with no intention of fighting is a valid personal choice. Which is why this thread has gone to 3 pages and may even see 4 or 5.

If you want to report then report.
Don't threaten to report, just report.
Don't give away coordinates, just report.
Don't moan that the last man standing can't win, just report
Don't demand that people present themselves to be shot, just report.
Don't feed a culture of telling people how to play their game your way, just report.
Don't encourage the idea that when you drop you have signed up for less than a 15 minute round, just report.
Don't get pissy that other people are annoyed as all hell at being told how to play their game, that their coordinates get given away because they didn't die in the first 2 minutes, that they are being denied their last man standing moment because someone else has decided that their game / time /experience is the most important in the game, just report.

Just report it, and let PGI work out if the player has broken the rules or not.

[Mystere]

Raggedyman, on 28 June 2015 - 03:26 AM, said:

Just report it, and let PGI work out if the player has broken the rules or not.

When people do not follow such a simple rule, it's a great indication that they nothing but self-serving motives.

<forgot the "not" part>



<Social Media - the hedonistic devolution of the human species>

Edited by Mystere, 29 June 2015 - 08:05 AM.

[Spheroid]

Why is this thread still going on?

This game is about robots shooting other robots to bits. A legged mech with no weapons is not capable of engaging in any meaningful activity. It cannot be argued that anyone in the match is having fun. The mech was shutdown so even the stimulation of mech piloting was absent. It unquestionably is a waste of time.

The OP is not in right here. Do people feel stalemate rules in chess are bad? I rather not physical fatigue determine the outcome over the reasonable conclusion that repeated non-varied moves cannot force mate.

If this were real battletech the survivor would be surrendering to the victor and awaiting repatriation to his employer or house unit.

What roleplaying aspect requires the player to escape all detection? Do people fancy themselves pirates with death sentences on their heads?

Also KDR doesn't count for crap anywhere I have been. E-peen boasting is by match score or damage done. Living is not required to obtain those stats.


I have outlined several rebuttals to various points raised previously. How am I incorrect in my arguments?

Edited by Spheroid, 28 June 2015 - 10:55 AM.

[MilesTeg1982]

Spheroid, on 28 June 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

The OP is not in right here.

funny thing is - many people have argued that the OP was right and completly ignored that the OP was directly offending the other player (who was actually reporting the OP for good reason) by calling him/her an idiot ...

Edited by MilesTeg1982, 28 June 2015 - 10:30 AM.

[Raggedyman]

Spheroid, on 28 June 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

Why is this thread still going on?

Because people disagree with you, and because there is enough bad behavior in the grey area for the whole situation to get peoples blood up. And because people radically disagree on what counts as "not capable of engaging in any meaningful activity" and "a waste of time".

Spheroid, on 28 June 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

I have outlined several rebuttals to various points raised previously. How am I incorrect in my arguments?

People aren't arguing this situation at this point, they are arguing the wider point of letting people play the game. Because they are sick of having other peoples view of a stalemate/unwinable situation forced on them.

Edited by Raggedyman, 29 June 2015 - 11:41 AM.

[Raggedyman]

Mystere, on 28 June 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

When people do follow such a simple rule, it's a great indication that they nothing but self-serving motives.

Really don't care what the motives are; I just know that reporting solves the problem by having the only people that can take legitimate action review the full information and act accordingly, whilst going "I R REPORTING U!!" just causes tempers to flair and often cuts out time people could spend reporting. It also kicks the problem onto someone else, because you are waiting on someone else to report a rules breach rather than just doing it yourself.

If you are that convinced that they broke the rules then surely you want them dealt with in a meaningful manner, so rather than spend the minute telling them you are going to report them and then the minute reporting them (possibly) with no impact on the one game you are currently playing just spend the minute reporting them as it could have impact on all the future games you end up playing.

[mogs01gt]

Kyra Legion, on 27 June 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

Had a idiot telling me thet he will report me for not following TOS in game when I only have one leg and no weapons so I did power down as I was hiding when I was the last in the game. So where do that show that I violence the TOS.

Thank Kyra

lmao seriously? I'd power down as well or simply leave the match. Any time I lose my weapons, I simply exit and use another mech.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Get rid of KDR stat and report the position of powered down mechs to the other team. Simple solution, and one of them is already used in most cases.

[Mystere]

MechWarrior5152251, on 29 June 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

Get rid of KDR stat and report the position of powered down mechs to the other team. Simple solution, and one of them is already used in most cases.

How many times does it have to be said that many are not doing it to preserve their KDR? Many do not even care about that ePeen-massaging stat.

The key phrases to look for are "silver platter" and "earn the kill".

[Alan Davion]

TWIAFU, on 28 June 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

I only read what is put into print, you know, what is actually there instead of what I want to or think should be there.

Immediately ban? Now you are just making exaggerated claims to try to bolster you view. You know they do not immediatly ban, you know they review these. And since you read the very statement by PGI, you read the words willfully and repeatedly. Since I am guess you are over the age of 10, you understand what those words mean.

Now, if you want to get PGI to list exceptions to the rules, go for it but do not hold your breath.

It's called a 'hypothetical situation'. Would some 10 year old be able to come up with, let alone understand that?

If, and that's a big IF, the rules were as rigid as you say, then any violation, no matter how insignificant, would bring penalties that are equally harsh, i.e. banning the offending player. If this was the way things worked, MWO would be a ghost town because there would have been so many accounts banned, the news would have gotten around and people would hiss and put up crosses at the very mention of MWO.

But thankfully that's not the world we live in.

You have to take all the factors into account, and there has to be flexibility and exceptions.

The person was legged and weaponless, so, if we go by your interpretation of the 'non-participation' rules, this person would be in violation simply because they're not shooting the enemy, all they can do is hobble around uselessly.

Therefore, this situation has to be an exception to the rule simply because they had been participating up until they were rendered legless and weaponless, which therefore precludes any degree of usefulness, and being the last one on the team to boot.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Mystere, on 29 June 2015 - 08:12 AM, said:

How many times does it have to be said that many are not doing it to preserve their KDR? Many do not even care about that ePeen-massaging stat.

The key phrases to look for are "silver platter" and "earn the kill".

You can keep repeating your bullshiz, but that doesn't make it true. There is no reason to power down and hide when you have no weapons except to preserve kdr, OR to frustrate the other team. I report power downs as a courtesy to the other team. They should not be griefed by some over grown child. It is unsportsmanlike to power down and hide without good reason.

I have plenty of mechs. I could just leave match. I ONLY report coordinates to prevent griefing of the other team. If the other team was using unsportsman like tactics I would help grief them myself by power down....

Edited by MechWarrior5152251, 29 June 2015 - 09:13 AM.

[Alan Davion]

MechWarrior5152251, on 29 June 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

You can keep repeating your bullshiz, but that doesn't make it true. There is no reason to power down and hide when you have no weapons except to preserve kdr, OR to frustrate the other team. I report power downs as a courtesy to the other team. They should not be griefed by some over grown child. It is unsportsmanlike to power down and hide without good reason.

I have plenty of mechs. I could just leave match. I ONLY report coordinates to prevent griefing of the other team. If the other team was using unsportsman like tactics I would help grief them myself by power down....

And it's also been stated to be unsportsmanlike by reporting coordinates to the enemy team.

In fact I think that's been stated to be a worse violation than some people are making this incident out to be.

[Revis Volek]

Sarlic, on 27 June 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

You want to hear something cool about partipicating?

I was in a D-DC in a ongoing match. I got zombie'd. Both arms etc. lost. I decided to have a little chat with a lance mate and told him to use me as his shield. Walk back and forth. I will shield incoming fire.

Funny that he got a kill shortly before i died as that opppnent as shooting to me and not my lancemate. (Why people shoot on mechs with no weapons etc is just dumb because when other players are alive they should be your priority target. KDR much *smh*.)

This is some serious thinking. Instead of powering down and hide. Bet not many people think of this.

I do this all the time....

Once im zombied/weapon less i just type (or speak) "MEAT SHIELD!" and inform the team to get behind me for one last hoorah!

[Revis Volek]

Alan Davion, on 29 June 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

It's called a 'hypothetical situation'. Would some 10 year old be able to come up with, let alone understand that?

If, and that's a big IF, the rules were as rigid as you say, then any violation, no matter how insignificant, would bring penalties that are equally harsh, i.e. banning the offending player. If this was the way things worked, MWO would be a ghost town because there would have been so many accounts banned, the news would have gotten around and people would hiss and put up crosses at the very mention of MWO.

But thankfully that's not the world we live in.

You have to take all the factors into account, and there has to be flexibility and exceptions.

The person was legged and weaponless, so, if we go by your interpretation of the 'non-participation' rules, this person would be in violation simply because they're not shooting the enemy, all they can do is hobble around uselessly.

Therefore, this situation has to be an exception to the rule simply because they had been participating up until they were rendered legless and weaponless, which therefore precludes any degree of usefulness, and being the last one on the team to boot.

Its a violation....no matter what you say. But this viloation does not result in a immediate ban. You could do it once a month and not get banned im sure.

But do it very often, once a week, every night?

I will report them and ask for them to be banned as well....


You can still LOCK targets with no weapons, Capture the base (if turrets are down) or even capture Point on Conquest so there is plenty to do with no weapons and one leg. But either way, this IS against the CoC by the letter of the law.

Will it result in a ban, no not right now. But do it often enough and maybe they will give ya a stern talking to or something....i really dont know.

Either way, you are in fact wrong on this one.

[Duke Nedo]

People are a bit nuts about it. The other day I was playing Conquest on HPG and it turned into a 1 vs 2 where our guy was a locust with one leg. We were ahead on points, so he powered down and won the game for us, and the other team was complaining about reporting him...

...and yesterday I was shot in the back by some noob I didn't even see, cored me and took out my ammo, and he rants in chat about how he should kill be for walking where he wanted to shoot... people are just unreasonably narrow minded. Not everyone is the center of the universe, try the opposite.

That said, making rules how you should behave in order to die quick at the end of the game is just bad design. Assault and conquest are no problem because they have secondary objectives. The problem is Skirmish game mode design, and any other mode where you have to let the time run out to win "after you already won".

[Alan Davion]

DarthRevis, on 29 June 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

Its a violation....no matter what you say. But this viloation does not result in a immediate ban. You could do it once a month and not get banned im sure.

But do it very often, once a week, every night?

I will report them and ask for them to be banned as well....


You can still LOCK targets with no weapons, Capture the base (if turrets are down) or even capture Point on Conquest so there is plenty to do with no weapons and one leg. But either way, this IS against the CoC by the letter of the law.

Will it result in a ban, no not right now. But do it often enough and maybe they will give ya a stern talking to or something....i really dont know.

Either way, you are in fact wrong on this one.

Once again, "hypothetical situation".

The way TWIAFU was going on, it makes it seem like he feels the rules should be absolute, with no room for flexibility.

I was simply trying to demonstrate what results that sort of system would bring.

There has to be room for flexibility and certain exceptions to the rules, that's all I'm trying to say.

Duke Nedo, on 29 June 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

People are a bit nuts about it. The other day I was playing Conquest on HPG and it turned into a 1 vs 2 where our guy was a locust with one leg. We were ahead on points, so he powered down and won the game for us, and the other team was complaining about reporting him...

...and yesterday I was shot in the back by some noob I didn't even see, cored me and took out my ammo, and he rants in chat about how he should kill be for walking where he wanted to shoot... people are just unreasonably narrow minded. Not everyone is the center of the universe, try the opposite.

That said, making rules how you should behave in order to die quick at the end of the game is just bad design. Assault and conquest are no problem because they have secondary objectives. The problem is Skirmish game mode design, and any other mode where you have to let the time run out to win "after you already won".

This part in bold is exactly what I was getting at earlier.

If you're ahead on points in Conquest, hiding and shutting down should be a legitimate tactic. If people want to get their panties in a twist over it, it just demonstrates they only care about their own satisfaction, to increase their stats and act all MLG-Pro.

[Raggedyman]

MechWarrior5152251, on 29 June 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

Get rid of KDR stat and report the position of powered down mechs to the other team. Simple solution, and one of them is already used in most cases.

KDR itself isn't really the problem, especially as it's a "ghost"/undisplayed stat, the real problem is that Skirmish doesn't have a non-team-death victory condition other than the 15 minute timer.

The simplest solution I can think of is an engagement timer, whereby after the first damage is done a countdown starts from 3 minutes, anytime damage is done it's reset, and if it runs out then whichever team has scored the most points wins. Quicker skirmishes as it's basically a bit of touch and go, then a grand melee, and then mop up. Alternatively, if you want something less messy, the kill requirement could be reduced to 10 rather than the current 12.

However all this would only reduce the number of people complaining about others wasting their time, and not remove it.

[Raggedyman]

MechWarrior5152251, on 29 June 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

I have plenty of mechs. I could just leave match. I ONLY report coordinates to prevent griefing of the other team. If the other team was using unsportsman like tactics I would help grief them myself by power down....

So to stop a possible breach of the rules you go for a definite breach of the rules, justifying it by it falling under your own personal definition of what "griefing" is?

What if the next person along sees "griefing" or "unsportsman like tactics" as carrying on when they are the last mech left", even if they have all guns and ammo?

[RussianWolf]

Why you shouldn't give away coord of AFK/discos

Was in a match last night. Heavy battle in mount doom. We get the upper hand and have 4 mechs (well, 2 and 2 halves) vs a PB and a AFK. With 3 minutes left, the AFK became active and the fresh WarHawk ripped our 4 to shreds. They won. If someone had given his coords while he was AFK, he would have been tracked down and killed.

This is why they made it against TOS to give away the position of a mech. You don't know why its inactive and if the person is trying to get back in.

Edited by RussianWolf, 29 June 2015 - 12:20 PM.