88 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

Wintersdark, on 27 June 2015 - 05:51 PM, said:

Exactly the point.

On the other hand, PGI is selling the mechs themselves. They are a commercial good. HG would jump on that instantly.

What ever, the HG will sue anyone that wants to use those mechs crowd has already been proven wrong. Dont be bitter. Everyone is saying Sony can use them for a movie now. So that crowd can go screw off.

Edited by Johnny Z, 27 June 2015 - 05:55 PM.

[LastKhan]

MekTek never had the rights or made profit. MekTek was a mod done for free for an old game.

[Wintersdark]

Johnny Z, on 27 June 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

What ever, the HG will sue anyone that wants to use those mechs crowd has already been proven wrong. Dont be bitter. Everyone is saying Sony can use them for a movie now. So that crowd can go screw off.

You're totally clueless.

Sony has licensed the rights to make the movie. They have Harmony Gold's explicit permission and indeed have paid for that right.

LastKhan, on 27 June 2015 - 06:00 PM, said:

MekTek never had the rights or made profit. MekTek was a mod done for free for an old game.

And, as such, wouldn't have been worth the "sue, force to settle" game - they'd have simply folded up and vanished.

[Scout Derek]

Wintersdark, on 27 June 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

You're totally clueless.

Sony has licensed the rights to make the movie. They have Harmony Gold's explicit permission and indeed have paid for that right.

Lol wintersdark I think you have achieved the "fatality" equivelant in this argument.

As for Johhny Z I suggest you shouldn't be so sour about losing the argument. You simply didn't know the gunfight involved light machine guns and thus brought a pistol.

[Johnny Z]

Wintersdark, on 27 June 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

You're totally clueless.

Sony has licensed the rights to make the movie. They have Harmony Gold's explicit permission and indeed have paid for that right.


And, as such, wouldn't have been worth the "sue, force to settle" game - they'd have simply folded up and vanished.

[Redacted]

Of course they are legit, that is my point, you clowns have been saying that no one would be able to use those mechs and that anyone that tried would be sued, and you were wrong. Flat out wrong so try relax a bit. Or have all the legal clowns forgotten the countless replies saying that no one would ever be able to use those mechs. There may have even been a bet taken that you guys were wrong about that even back then.

Edited by Rhazien, 28 June 2015 - 04:41 AM.
Insults/Ad hominem

[Scout Derek]

Johnny Z, on 27 June 2015 - 06:49 PM, said:

[Redacted]

Of course they are legit, that is my point, you clowns have been saying that no one would be able to use those mechs and that anyone that tried would be sued, and you were wrong. Flat out wrong so try relax a bit. Or have all the legal clowns forgotten the countless replies saying that no one would ever be able to use those mechs. There may have even been a bet taken that you guys were wrong about that even back then.

This is where I ask you to stop and think about what you said, Now we are getting personal here.

So stop, and YOU relax, and counter argue like a real man instead of acting like a little child.

Then you can continue arguing until a mod stops this pitiful excuse for a discussion as of now.

Edited by Rhazien, 28 June 2015 - 04:42 AM.
Quoted content

[LordKnightFandragon]

10 bucks says the robottech movie has the Warhammer in it just to spite us.

[Alan Davion]

LordKnightFandragon, on 27 June 2015 - 07:06 PM, said:

10 bucks says the robottech movie has the Warhammer in it just to spite us.

It depends on what point in the Robotech timeline it's set in. Only the Macross portion of the overall series uses those mecha, and the only parts of the Robotech timeline that haven't been really fully explored are the Sentinels, which takes place after the Masters saga and during the Invid saga, and the current Shadow era, which it's been several years since the sequel to Shadow Chronicles sort of just, fell into limbo.

[Wintersdark]

Johnny Z, on 27 June 2015 - 06:49 PM, said:

Of course they are legit, that is my point, you clowns have been saying that no one would be able to use those mechs and that anyone that tried would be sued, and you were wrong. Flat out wrong so try relax a bit. Or have all the legal clowns forgotten the countless replies saying that no one would ever be able to use those mechs. There may have even been a bet taken that you guys were wrong about that even back then.

No, we've been saying anyone using that IP commercially without permission would be sued. Harmony Gold has done that in the past, and it's a real threat.

OF COURSE if Harmony Gold would license PGI to use those mechs, they could do so without being sued. Russ contacted Harmony Gold, several times (he's discussed this a few times at length over the years) and has been denied permission to do it. If PGI where to use those mechs as a commercial product without permission - particularly after asking permission - they'd be sued pretty much instantly. That's just good business on HG's part.

So, no, it's not "Nobody can ever use their IP ever or they'll be sued"; it's "Nobody can use their IP without permission without the real threat of a lawsuit."

Do you not get this? Just because MekTek (a non-entity really) used them in a mod without getting sued does NOT mean it's safe for anyone to use it willy nilly, particularly not established companies with assets and income.

[Scout Derek]

*just looks at him*

I gunna ask once, did I, hmm, ever say anything bad about harmony gold? Ever?

Man you are just horrible at arguing. If I was ever trolling, I would've never posted about you to calm down. And you guys is vague, who, pgi or wintersdark or...?

I mean c'mon, wintersdark knows when to stop, and he stops when I ask him to even if he doesn't want to. You on the other hand, just are a sour one.

Luckily for you I don't hang around bad vibes, and I'll be happy that you're going, we'll continue discussing this without you.

Have a good day and hope you find something that you have a lever in.

Edited by Rhazien, 28 June 2015 - 04:43 AM.
Quoted content

[Wintersdark]

I didn't say they were unreasonable. From their perspective, it makes sense.

Why allow people to use your IP for free, or in ways you don't like? Russ asked, they said no. *shrugs*


If Russ used their IP after being denied permission, he'd be wide open for a lawsuit. It's not even a question, they'd be stupid not to sue.

Edited by Rhazien, 28 June 2015 - 04:43 AM.
Quoted content

[Alan Davion]

Johnny Z, on 27 June 2015 - 06:49 PM, said:

[Redacted]

Of course they are legit, that is my point, you clowns have been saying that no one would be able to use those mechs and that anyone that tried would be sued, and you were wrong. Flat out wrong so try relax a bit. Or have all the legal clowns forgotten the countless replies saying that no one would ever be able to use those mechs. There may have even been a bet taken that you guys were wrong about that even back then.

Scout Derek, on 27 June 2015 - 06:54 PM, said:

This is where I ask you to stop and think about what you said, Now we are getting personal here.

So stop, and YOU relax, and counter argue like a real man instead of acting like a little child.

Then you can continue arguing until a mod stops this pitiful excuse for a discussion as of now.

Oh FFS. Both of you knock it off before I report the both of you.

Johnny, HG deserves the flak they get from the BT/MW community, but at the same time, originally it seems Fasa didn't go through the proper channels themselves, so there's plenty of blame on both sides.

The reason HG gets so much crap is because, instead of doing the right thing and say, working with Fasa to correct the designs, they instead went with the lawsuit and pissed off a lot of people who'd been playing at the time.

They could do the same thing now, but they don't, and thus they will continue to get lambasted by the BT/MW fans because they are quite frankly, just being bullies because they can.

Edited by Rhazien, 28 June 2015 - 04:44 AM.
Quoted content

[SpectreHD]

Wintersdark, on 27 June 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

No, we've been saying anyone using that IP commercially without permission would be sued. Harmony Gold has done that in the past, and it's a real threat.

OF COURSE if Harmony Gold would license PGI to use those mechs, they could do so without being sued. Russ contacted Harmony Gold, several times (he's discussed this a few times at length over the years) and has been denied permission to do it. If PGI where to use those mechs as a commercial product without permission - particularly after asking permission - they'd be sued pretty much instantly. That's just good business on HG's part.

So, no, it's not "Nobody can ever use their IP ever or they'll be sued"; it's "Nobody can use their IP without permission without the real threat of a lawsuit."

Do you not get this? Just because MekTek (a non-entity really) used them in a mod without getting sued does NOT mean it's safe for anyone to use it willy nilly, particularly not established companies with assets and income.

Even if they were to be redesigned like all the other mechs in MWO? Well that's stupid. Screw HG.

Also, is Sony stupid? Why Robotech? Why not do a Macross movie.

[Alan Davion]

SpectreHD, on 27 June 2015 - 07:32 PM, said:

Even if they were to be redesigned like all the other mechs in MWO? Well that's stupid. Screw HG.

Also, is Sony stupid? Why Robotech? Why not do a Macross movie.

Because HG.

They claim that they own the rights to Macross, which I've heard people say they don't, but they've got enough money to throw around to make it seem like they do, and it's basically one big cesspool at this point.

They could try going to the studio that owns Macross itself, but they might not be able to release it in the US because HG would drag it through the courts, because they own the distributions rights for Robotech, of which Macross is a part of, and that seems to be enough for them to say they own Macross.

[Wintersdark]

SpectreHD, on 27 June 2015 - 07:32 PM, said:

Even if they were to be redesigned like all the other mechs in MWO? Well that's stupid. Screw HG.

There's a level of redesign where it'd be "legal", where they could argue that they're not copying the IP. The problem with IP law, though, is that it's ALL gray areas. So, just having the same name would be enough to potentially prompt a lawsuit, which PGI may or may not win, but the cost of the lawsuit would easily be higher than the profits from releasing the mechs even if they won.

It'd be foolish for PGI to release those mechs without HG's permission, because the risk of a lawsuit (and it's probable, but not garaunteed - who knows, HG may decide to be nice!) is basically gambling your companies future on some company being nice.

Quote

Also, is Sony stupid? Why Robotech? Why not do a Macross movie.

I'll admit, I'll watch it either way. I'm weak that way.

[Scout Derek]

Alan Davion, on 27 June 2015 - 07:31 PM, said:

Oh FFS. Both of you knock it off before I report the both of you.

Knock off what? Defending everyone from someone who's calling everyone and you clowns?

Just because I don't want people dissing everyone doesn't mean I won't say what you're thinking is a bit off.

What would you report on me? Defending everyone of their ToS?

Anyways what you said is right, and I won't disagree on that matter.

[Johnny Z]

Scout Derek, on 27 June 2015 - 07:28 PM, said:

*just looks at him*

I gunna ask once, did I, hmm, ever say anything bad about harmony gold? Ever?

Man you are just horrible at arguing. If I was ever trolling, I would've never posted about you to calm down. And you guys is vague, who, pgi or wintersdark or...?

I mean c'mon, wintersdark knows when to stop, and he stops when I ask him to even if he doesn't want to. You on the other hand, just are a sour one.

Luckily for you I don't hang around bad vibes, and I'll be happy that you're going, we'll continue discussing this without you.

Have a good day and hope you find something that you have a lever in.

[Redacted]

100 trolls slamming HG for months if not years and a couple replies calling them on it and saying they were wrong and its a big deal? Just amazing.

By the way all the trolls slamming HG were wrong. Get over it.

Edited by Rhazien, 28 June 2015 - 04:45 AM.
Flaming

[Alan Davion]

Scout Derek, on 27 June 2015 - 07:39 PM, said:

Knock off what? Defending everyone from someone who's calling everyone and you clowns?

Just because I don't want people dissing everyone doesn't mean I won't say what you're thinking is a bit off.

What would you report on me? Defending everyone of their ToS?

Anyways what you said is right, and I won't disagree on that matter.

I would file a report on you and/or Johnny because you were both descending to the level of insulting each other, calling each other children.

I'll admit you were handling yourself better than Johnny, but you were still toeing the line, and that's often justification enough for some people.

Johnny Z, on 27 June 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

[Redacted]

Johnny, I'll say it one last time. Cool it. The fact that you've now descended to throwing the T word around is grounds enough for me to file a complaint on you.

I'm giving you one chance to take a step back and cool your head. If I see another adversarial or antagonistic comment from you, I'll report you.

Edited by Rhazien, 28 June 2015 - 04:46 AM.
Quoted content

[Scout Derek]

Johnny Z, on 27 June 2015 - 07:46 PM, said:

[Redacted]

100 trolls slamming HG and a couple replies calling them on it and saying they were wrong and its a big deal? Just amazing.

Now you're just being stupid. Ask yourself: was I trolling when I did that give away, hmm?

Or when I made a video and forum about missing some key features in closed beta?

You're either really out of your zone today, or refuse to believe I'm a not a troll and refute to look through my posts to see if I really did say anything bad about HG.

Edited by Rhazien, 28 June 2015 - 04:46 AM.
Quoted content

[Scout Derek]

Alan Davion, on 27 June 2015 - 07:50 PM, said:

I would file a report on you and/or Johnny because you were both descending to the level of insulting each other, calling each other children.

I'll admit you were handling yourself better than Johnny, but you were still toeing the line, and that's often justification enough for some people.

True enough, but it gets me a bit on edge when he wants to call everyone clowns because he's wrong, I mean, would you like it if someone called you an idiot because someone you proved him wrong? On top of that, he uses the term "whatever" to show and justify my argument.