469 replies to this topic

[ChapeL]

valt901, on 29 June 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

Since we appear to have IS mech's becoming clan, does that mean we will have an IS timberwolf. Call it the Treedog

There is one... http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rakshasa ... love it or leave it

[Wintersdark]

Gorgo7, on 29 June 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

The engine should be fixed. Where do they speak of swapping engines?

The engine SHOULD NOT be fixed. The whole point of Battlemechs is these things are unlocked, but there are no omnipods to switch. You get the hardpoints you get.

[IraqiWalker]

FupDup, on 29 June 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

If we look at the record sheets, it is.

http://bte.battletec...te/pdf/1698.pdf

http://bte.battletec...te/pdf/1568.pdf

The Onion and Lowlander both come stock with STD engines, however.

I know it's a clan xl in the sheets. I'm wondering if that's what PGI is putting in them.

[FupDup]

IraqiWalker, on 29 June 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

I know it's a clan xl in the sheets. I'm wondering if that's what PGI is putting in them.

I would doubt that PGI would fumble with the stock builds on the canon variants outside of borderline cases (like the Hellbringer Prime's A-pods), and putting IS XL in their made-up variants seems almost as unlikely.

[ImperialKnight]

here comes the power creep.

if the IICs can change all their equipment AND use Clan weapons, doesn't that make them outright better than IS mechs? Who in the right mind is going to go back to the old Jenners once the IICs are out? Better engine, more JJs, Clan weaponry, same or MORE hardpoints.

I was expecting IIC mechs to be a new flavour, i.e. no fixed equipment/upgrades/crit slots, no omnipod system, not able to change engine but benefits from Clan XL rules, able to use Clan weaponry. Or a balance of IS/Clan characteristics.

PGI really needs to come out and clarify how this is all going to be handled

[LT. HARDCASE]

Saw the hardpoints and I was like yooooooooo. These mechs are going to be a bunch of damn MONSTERS!

Then I realized how much I'm going to have to spend, in Clan XL engines. Crap I'm gonna be ultra space poor again.

[Sereglach]

Wintersdark, on 29 June 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

The hunchback will be the least so of the lot. The 4G, 4P, GI and 4J are very heavily quirked.

Before we got too much into the whole quirking of mechs, remember that they're doing an entire rebalancing pass of ALL mechs that's slated to come out in August. That balance pass and "redo" of the whole quirk system will be out long before these mechs. For now I don't think quirks should be part of the discussion until we have an idea of what the future of mech balance is going to look like.


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Oh, and I'm hoping for the next pack we'll get to see the Commando IIC and the Shadow Hawk IIC (especially since this one gets Plasma Cannons eventually). I'd mention the Clint IIC as well, but we don't even have the IS version in game, yet.

Funny enough, doing more than one or two packs of these will be difficult, because most IIC mechs are lights and mediums; and the majority of those that aren't lights and mediums are Assaults. It seems like the Clans enjoyed either adding a bunch of tonnage to mechs or really slimming them down.

[IraqiWalker]

knightsljx, on 29 June 2015 - 03:00 PM, said:

I was expecting IIC mechs to be a new flavour, i.e. no fixed equipment/upgrades/crit slots, no omnipod system, not able to change engine but benefits from Clan XL rules, able to use Clan weaponry. Or a balance of IS/Clan characteristics.

This is how IIC mechs work. They can't swap hardpoints, no fixed equipment (not omni), and upgrades can be switched around. Unless PGI comes with some clarifications.

[Wintersdark]

knightsljx, on 29 June 2015 - 03:00 PM, said:

here comes the power creep.

if the IICs can change all their equipment AND use Clan weapons, doesn't that make them outright better than IS mechs? Who in the right mind is going to go back to the old Jenners once the IICs are out? Better engine, more JJs, Clan weaponry, same or MORE hardpoints.

I was expecting IIC mechs to be a new flavour, i.e. no fixed equipment/upgrades/crit slots, no omnipod system, not able to change engine but benefits from Clan XL rules, able to use Clan weaponry. Or a balance of IS/Clan characteristics.

PGI really needs to come out and clarify how this is all going to be handled

It's pretty clear how they work, hence the listed current and max engine sizes.

They MAY have some fixed equipment, but obviously that won't include engines or else why would they list max engine sizes?

Sereglach, on 29 June 2015 - 03:00 PM, said:

Before we got too much into the whole quirking of mechs, remember that they're doing an entire rebalancing pass of ALL mechs that's slated to come out in August. That balance pass and "redo" of the whole quirk system will be out long before these mechs. For now I don't think quirks should be part of the discussion until we have an idea of what the future of mech balance is going to look like.

If you're not going to include quirks under this reasoning, there's absolutely no point in even having a balance discussion until after that rebalancing pass.

[Gorgo7]

Wow! Right about the engines, scary stuff! The IIC's look to be very nasty opponents indeed.
Well, the northern states may as well bow down to their "new" clan overlords.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Wow... The JR7-IIC-2 has a max of 10 Jump Jets.... Only the Spider 5V will be able to hide from that beastie!

[ThatGuy539]

And here I was thinking of skipping the next mech pack, and they come out with some IIC mechs. Now I have to think about it.

[Sereglach]

Wintersdark, on 29 June 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

If you're not going to include quirks under this reasoning, there's absolutely no point in even having a balance discussion until after that rebalancing pass.

Which is why I expressed concerns over the legitimacy of the Oxide in my first post, but also expressed that hopefully it'll be addressed with the full rebalance pass that's slated to come out. Concern with an applicable caveat, if you will. That kind of a comment just helps ensure that it's a focal point on PGI's radar for future balancing.

I honestly think most of the balance discussion happening here is kind of pointless for mechs slated to come out well beyond a slew of major changes to the game. Especially since they're only taking all of our current quirks and mech setups into account.

Edited by Sereglach, 29 June 2015 - 03:09 PM.

[Mawai]

Some questions ...


1) Are these mechs equipped with the clan variants of the weapons? There are examples like the UAC-20 and ER Medium laser that are currently only available for clans but they don't actually specify clan weapon variants as far as I can tell.

2) Can we assume these mechs use clan engines? If so ... I don't see why some of the Orion and Highlander variants are equipped with standard engines.

3) Will these mechs be customizable to the same extent as the IS equivalents? Can they swap engines? Will they introduce clan engines into the store? Will you be able to change internal structure and armor types? (Swap FF for ES for example or add one?) Will you be able to add/remove JJ?

The problem I see with these mechs just looking at them is that (on paper) they are all likely to outperform almost any existing mech except perhaps the Timberwolf and Stormcrow. The base HBK-IIC comes with 2x UAC20 and 2 ERML, JJ and clan XL engine ... the 4G has one AC20 and 3 ML. Similar advantages seem to be present for all the variants. Add the ability to customize from IS mechs and the base chassis are better than the IS equivalents and can fit more of the lighter/less crit space clan weapons.

I can see this pack being a big seller ... if only because of power creep ... especially if they allow for the same sorts of customizations allowed to IS mechs. However, I am concerned about the impact of this pack if it is introduced without being a bit more balanced.

[Wintersdark]

Mawai, on 29 June 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

Some questions ...


1) Are these mechs equipped with the clan variants of the weapons? There are examples like the UAC-20 and ER Medium laser that are currently only available for clans but they don't actually specify clan weapon variants as far as I can tell.

2) Can we assume these mechs use clan engines? If so ... I don't see why some of the Orion and Highlander variants are equipped with standard engines.

3) Will these mechs be customizable to the same extent as the IS equivalents? Can they swap engines? Will they introduce clan engines into the store? Will you be able to change internal structure and armor types? (Swap FF for ES for example or add one?) Will you be able to add/remove JJ?

The problem I see with these mechs just looking at them is that (on paper) they are all likely to outperform almost any existing mech except perhaps the Timberwolf and Stormcrow. The base HBK-IIC comes with 2x UAC20 and 2 ERML, JJ and clan XL engine ... the 4G has one AC20 and 3 ML. Similar advantages seem to be present for all the variants. Add the ability to customize from IS mechs and the base chassis are better than the IS equivalents and can fit more of the lighter/less crit space clan weapons.

I can see this pack being a big seller ... if only because of power creep ... especially if they allow for the same sorts of customizations allowed to IS mechs. However, I am concerned about the impact of this pack if it is introduced without being a bit more balanced.

IIC mechs run Clan weapons etc. They are fully Clan Battlemechs.

They said in the town hall they'd be able to swap weapons/upgrades etc, they are battlemechs, exactly like the IS battlemechs but using Clan tech.

[FupDup]

Mawai, on 29 June 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

1) Are these mechs equipped with the clan variants of the weapons? There are examples like the UAC-20 and ER Medium laser that are currently only available for clans but they don't actually specify clan weapon variants as far as I can tell.

They used Clan guns stock, so yes they will have Clan guns.

Mawai, on 29 June 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

2) Can we assume these mechs use clan engines? If so ... I don't see why some of the Orion and Highlander variants are equipped with standard engines.

The Jenny and Hunchie come stock with Clan XL. The Onion and Lowlander use STD engines because the TT designers were dumb and didn't fully optimize them. However, we can probably change this in MWO...

Mawai, on 29 June 2015 - 03:10 PM, said:

3) Will these mechs be customizable to the same extent as the IS equivalents? Can they swap engines? Will they introduce clan engines into the store? Will you be able to change internal structure and armor types? (Swap FF for ES for example or add one?) Will you be able to add/remove JJ?

Adding JJ is confirmed on some mechs like the Jenny IIC that have higher JJ caps than stock (stock is 7, cap is 10). Clan engines will have to be introduced to make use of the engine limits mentioned on the sales page. Speaking of which, since almost all of them have higher engine caps than their stock engines (Jenny IIC's stock is a 315, which is already close to the global speed cap), they are fully confirmed to swap engines. Endo/FF is assumed to be the same as their IS versions.

In a nutshell, take any IS Battlemech you own and replace all the things with Clan gear, and you've got yourself a Clan Battlemech.

[Koniving]

Wintersdark, on 29 June 2015 - 02:15 PM, said:

I'm concerned about some of them. HBKIIC isn't too bad, as the HBK line is heavily quirked. However, the Jenner and Highlander lines? Both IS versions are very lightly quirked at best; these are looking like direct, substantial upgrades.

Note: This post was made with the assumption that PGI made these into OmniMechs. Evidently they will be treated as BattleMechs.
On an interesting side note there: That means locked hardpoints. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Joke's on you, Clanners!
______________________
The Highlander one I don't believe you'll need to worry about.
48 kph (Direwolf speeds). Compared to my nearly 65 kph endurance brawler (HM), the IIC seems like a devastating downgrade.

The Jenner, well that's an insane jumpjet count. On a side note reverse joint legs would make it significantly easier to leg compared to standard Jenners. Top speed of 145 is quite impressive in my eyes considering it's a Clan mech. At the same time, remember that all jumpjets are mandatory if the part that has them is equipped. All legs include 2 JJs each, so there's 2 tons locked up (4x 0.5 ton JJs). Endo/ferro forced (makes me very sad, SUPER crit limiter here!).

HBK, 64.8 kph. This slow: I love it; but watch the tears flow.

(That's pre-quirks).

Orion, 64 kph and limited hardpoints assures it'll be carrying either a mixed load or a heavy load. The slower speed will make it more long range reliant than the Timber Wolves.

I am looking forward to the Highlander nevertheless, though. I didn't even know the Clans had one, and lets be honest... I need new ways to play the best mech in the game. Clan weapons? It'll make my already DPS-oriented builds feel that much more like the Mechwarrior game I wanted.

Kon's Heavy Metal
1 - Two player team alongside a recon unit.
2 - Commanding 11 other players via battlegrid, leading the combat charges, and getting mass kills.
3 - Competitive variation for 12 mans (at a time when it was 5-12 players only in the group queues).

Rock on.

(Heavy Metal [left of image], Koniving. Highlander, PTC [correct if wrong?]. Screenshot: The Perfect Screenshot thread's Lordred).

Edited by Koniving, 29 June 2015 - 04:49 PM.

[FupDup]

Wintersdark, on 29 June 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

IIC mechs run Clan weapons etc. They are fully Clan Battlemechs.

They said in the town hall they'd be able to swap weapons/upgrades etc, they are battlemechs, exactly like the IS battlemechs but using Clan tech.

I suspect that we're going to have be answering this a thousand more times in the next few weeks...

[Bilbo]

Wintersdark, on 29 June 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

IIC mechs run Clan weapons etc. They are fully Clan Battlemechs.

They said in the town hall they'd be able to swap weapons/upgrades etc, they are battlemechs, exactly like the IS battlemechs but using Clan tech.

Also considering some of the weapons in the loadouts given; UAC/10's, SSRM4's and SSRM6's, one could infer clan tech is used anyway.

[Koniving]

On a side note:

The sheer frequency of these mechs is rather rampant. In a way I like it, but in a way it strains collectors.