54 replies to this topic

[Mordin Ashe]

Hi there Mech enthusiasts,

I want to talk about merging IS factions. Quite a heresy for some of you, I know, but hear me out.

The reason for this is simple - CW. Clans are rolling like boulders and the most important thing IS struggles with are numbers. No tech, no "OP Clan Mechs", but numbers. I suppose PGI could support this in some way with numbers but my experience in CJF is that there is a huge overhead of Clanners waiting for matches over IS players. War is a matter of numbers and IS simply doesn't have them - this is comming from someone who is looking at these numbers right now, realising that without IS players to fight with all I can hope is another ghost drop. Very bad situation for both sides.

How is IS supposed to win when Clan attackers outnumber defenders by 40? How are those few loyalist units IS factions have supposed to stop the invasion? Simple answer is that they are incapable of doing it. Not enough people. Getting steamrolled on front lines is unavoidable when you are outnumbered 2:1 while the rest of IS is sitting on the other side of unvierse, picking their noses and battles without interest in the whole picture.

This is why I propose merging IS factions. Merge Steiner and Davion in order to create at least some powerhouse IS can work with. What is the reason of having a Liao faction that is so inactive in CW? Mariks are... well, lets say this doesn't matter since they will be bordering with Clans soon anyway.

To make CW more enjoyable we need more players. Many times it has been stated by others that CW is more enjoyable when there are more people playing it. Why break up your community even further? This doesn't have to be an instant change, but lets say that Season 3 might be just around the corner. How about trying to reduce some factions for it, to find out how it affects the situation? Surely it can't make it any worse than it is now...

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

The issue may be allowing mercs to float around and affect numbers.

I just bet people saw the last battle, assumed the IS would outnumber the clans again and that people would get a faster drop by going clan at the outset.

Though I just popped on myself (had life stuff) and am in CSJ space so...

[Rahul Roy]

I don't get it, if Clan attackers outnumber IS defenders how will merging the IS houses make things any different?

Every IS can defend against any Clan attack already regardless of which faction they are in.

[Monkey Lover]

Really the problem is no one wants to play cw. They see no reason to fight or hold planets.

Not even counting how many people in IS mechs hate fighting clans. I have never talked to a IS pilot who would pick a clan planet over an IS.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 30 June 2015 - 08:57 PM.

[Codeine Radick]

Rahul Roy, on 30 June 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

I don't get it, if Clan attackers outnumber IS defenders how will merging the IS houses make things any different?

Every IS can defend against any Clan attack already regardless of which faction they are in.

This one makes a great point.

[kesmai]

Well, attack another clan. It is fun, tust me.

at least that's what i would do atm. Juicy wolf planets. Their pugs will show up being easy prey, while their top merc and house units only have terra and the event in mind. Taking pressure from the is will net you more than you think including planets for the leaderboard.

Edited by kesmai, 30 June 2015 - 09:58 PM.

[Mordin Ashe]

IS can defend altogether, yes. Granted, seemingly logical argument, but defending is not how you win the war, is it? to have a shot you also need to attack from time to time and that is where I fear we may have a problem.

Either merge a faction so that everyone can attack the Clans somewhere or make it so that IS can not only defend, but also attack together. Right now IS can defend but unless they can push back as one things might never change.

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 30 June 2015 - 10:30 PM.

[kesmai]

It's more a "should mercs be clans" question than anything else.

[JohnnyBlue07]

Last I checked, Merc units with huge numbers are the ones controlling the CW map - not Clan-loyalist units. Everywhere the large merc units go, they control the space around them.

A large army will drink a lake dry, no matter where they go.

[Carl Vickers]

From what I have seen in this Beta2 of CW, most players cant be bothered. What I saw at the end of the 1st beta was IS smashing Clans back to starting points and during the Tuk event there was 3 IS pilots to every Clanner.

Steiner have gone to sleep, the Dragon is not fussed, Ras doesnt have the population of southern groups signing up to smash clans.

Until it is worth something to take and hold planets CW wont go too far. No real reward = no players.

[Knightcrawler]

They have the numbers, they just stopped playing CW. In Phase 1, they had like twice as many people as us. I doubt many people had a change of heart since then.

[Nightshade24]

Carl, on 30 June 2015 - 11:23 PM, said:

From what I have seen in this Beta2 of CW, most players cant be bothered. What I saw at the end of the 1st beta was IS smashing Clans back to starting points and during the Tuk event there was 3 IS pilots to every Clanner.

Steiner have gone to sleep, the Dragon is not fussed, Ras doesnt have the population of southern groups signing up to smash clans.

Until it is worth something to take and hold planets CW wont go too far. No real reward = no players.

oh there were A LOT more then 3 IS pilots per every clanner.

I saw so many IS teams at some times waiting in que to the point the uI for it is completely full while clans struggling to make 1 whole team...

[BSK]

I would prefer to see the implementation of Bandit Kingdoms on the other side of the invasion corridor. This way we would have more action for those factions at the bottom of the map and we would have a queue for Lone Wolfs. The least active faction would have a pirate jumppoint on their map and people had to defend it.

[Joshua McEvedy]

Mordin Ashe, on 30 June 2015 - 08:03 PM, said:

Not enough people. Getting steamrolled on front lines is unavoidable when you are outnumbered 2:1 while the rest of IS is sitting on the other side of unvierse, picking their noses and battles without interest in the whole picture.

Two issues:

1) There are no real incentives and no attack lanes for the southern Houses to get into the Clan fight. Lord knows that House Marik has tried to get PGI to do something about this sad situation, but nothing has happened except the map reset which wiped out our previous gains, and as a result, House Marik's active numbers has plummeted.

2) The large merc groups are controlling the game. The Great Houses have no real way to directly hire them and to manage their operations, and as a result, the tail is wagging the dog.

As an addendum here, right now the game mechanics discourage permanent loyalist contracts, especially for the southern houses, and also due to their own internal workings, any potential forced mergers will be hotly contested, leading to more exits from the game.

It's just the way it is.

[jeirhart]

I had thought it might be fun to merge all Clans and IS factions into two groups, with units inside of those larger factions declaring allegiance to various clans/houses therein.

This way Clans such as Diamond Shark could be introduced as a playable faction without introducing additional invasion corridors or initial invasion planets. Meanwhile IS factions could have actual "Mercenary" factions that swear allegiance to no house.

Under this system, goal of the Clans would remain Terra with in-fight occurring between individual units for control over captured planets (resources) under various clan banners (including units in the same clan). Meanwhile the IS would have the goal of reducing the Clan invasion corridor back to a single planet while individual units fight internally for control over owned planets even within the same house.

Fast forward the timeline a bit to where the Clans are a sizable chunk of the IS then allow units to begin claiming territory within their borders for additional resources. Limit each units' ability to expand based on consumable resources, allow units to ally with other units in their faction to challenge other units ownership of territory. Suddenly you have a far more in-depth diplomacy system with a resource-driven economy and a much more sustainable Community Warfare system that does not require regular wipes.

Just a thought.

[Joshua McEvedy]

Rahul Roy, on 30 June 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

Every IS can defend against any Clan attack already regardless of which faction they are in.

That's true, but we can't attack, and so there is no real financial or loyalty incentive to fight on the Clan front on behalf of another faction.

[CyclonerM]

Knightcrawler, on 30 June 2015 - 11:57 PM, said:

They have the numbers, they just stopped playing CW. In Phase 1, they had like twice as many people as us. I doubt many people had a change of heart since then.

This. For sure, the IS has MANY more players than the Clans, talking about absolute numbers. Do you remember when the Clans stopped playing CW and they all got pushed to their spawns?

So, for once, the Clans have more active players, but i see it more as an exception than the rule..

Honestly, i would agree on creating the FedCom, but just because it is how it is supposed to be.

Btw, mercs should be the balancing factor, but CW is not exactly working as intended.. Besides, it has been said quite too many times, but until CW becomes more than a shell of what it could be and we dreamed it to be, many will not be interested at all..

[Joshua McEvedy]

BSK, on 01 July 2015 - 03:02 AM, said:

I would prefer to see the implementation of Bandit Kingdoms on the other side of the invasion corridor. This way we would have more action for those factions at the bottom of the map and we would have a queue for Lone Wolfs. The least active faction would have a pirate jumppoint on their map and people had to defend it.

Or strong Periphery States like the Magistracy of Canopus and the Marian Hegemony, among others.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Periphery

[Vellron2005]

NO.

This is why:

Rahul Roy, on 30 June 2015 - 08:41 PM, said:

I don't get it, if Clan attackers outnumber IS defenders how will merging the IS houses make things any different?

Every IS can defend against any Clan attack already regardless of which faction they are in.

Knightcrawler, on 30 June 2015 - 11:57 PM, said:

They have the numbers, they just stopped playing CW. In Phase 1, they had like twice as many people as us. I doubt many people had a change of heart since then.

Also, after Tukayyid, the minds of the players changed, they realised that the current CW map is not "the real thing" and that there will be another Tukayyid, and another reset, so most simply dont want to do it anymore until taking planets is worth something to each individual player.

Also, it is apsolutelly true that it is the mercenaries, namely MercStar, that controls the CW map, as is evident by the current event - just look, they took first place again, and will most probably hold it on shear numbers.

Clan Wolf has surrounded Terra, and this will most likely prompt one of 2 things..

1) Another map reset is on the way, and the aftertaste of the Clans, namely Clan Wolf, changing Battletech lore once again (Wolf won Tukayyid) will disuade many IS players from touching CW for the perciveable future.

2) PGI throws lore out the window, and implements some planet value, and from then on out, it's anyone's guess what happens.. house turns agains house, clan against clan, all out war ensues and the map is completely different than it should be in the lore, and the fate of the CW map is put squarely in the hands of the players and unit commanders, and we finally have a REALISTIC war in the game, one with real benefits, losses, politics and economy.

Option 2 is extremely unlikely.

[Joshua McEvedy]

Vellron2005, on 01 July 2015 - 03:57 AM, said:

Also, after Tukayyid, the minds of the players changed, they realised that the current CW map is not "the real thing" and that there will be another Tukayyid, and another reset, so most simply dont want to do it anymore until taking planets is worth something to each individual player.

Bingo! Nobody wants to put the massive time investment into a campaign that will be wiped away again in a few short weeks.

And I've said it before and I'll say it again, PGI should have started with 3015 and the Third Succession War, including the various smaller "Brush Wars," among the Great Houses and minor powers, rather than with the Clan Invasion. Everyone would have been on an equal footing, more or less, both strategically and technologically. Future events and changes could have been implemented, like the Grey Death Legion's discovery of the Helm Memory Core in 3028, on a regular chronological basis, much like Star Trek Online does with its "featured episodes."

But too late for that I guess...