32 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Since the Jenner IIC allows us to build IS Jenners using ClanTech instead of IS Tech, I think it will serve as a good testbead to compare IS to Clan Weapon Balance.

How do we think a 6 ERML Jenner IIC will compare to a IS Jenner with 6 ML?

[FupDup]

In that particular build, the 6 ERML is gonna have a pretty big alpha and way better range, though it might be a bit toasty...

For sustainability, the Jenny IIC could drop down to 5 or even 4 ERML, while still having range advantages (and damage, if you use 5).

[One Medic Army]

Prosperity Park, on 29 June 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

Since the Jenner IIC allows us to build IS Jenners using ClanTech instead of IS Tech, I think it will serve as a good testbead to compare IS to Clan Weapon Balance.

How do we think a 6 ERML Jenner IIC will compare to a IS Jenner with 6 ML?

Longer range, lighter guns, hotter, faster.

The disparity will be more obvious with missiles, since clan SRMs are half-weight (significantly lighter), SRM6s take up only 1 crit, and otherwise the SRMs are the same.

Then there's the fact clan Endo and Ferro are straight up better. 7 slots vs 14, and clan ferro is a greater weight reduction.

[Tennex]

I think its possible that they are thinking ahead, to far enough where the IS can use Clan tech. So yes, in a sense, the Jenner IIC would serve as the perfect guinea pig for mix tech.

Having this guinea pig break the old system would allow them to see what new methods they need to use to balance these mechs, once mix tech does come into play...

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 29 June 2015 - 07:19 PM, said:

In that particular build, the 6 ERML is gonna have a pretty big alpha and way better range, though it might be a bit toasty...

For sustainability, the Jenny IIC could drop down to 5 or even 4 ERML, while still having range advantages (and damage, if you use 5).

6 SPL Jenner

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 June 2015 - 07:52 PM, said:

6 SPL Jenner

In that case it's a strong and heat efficient build, but a very short-ranged one.

For a mech that amounts to a walking CT (assuming it inherits IS Jenny hitboxes), playing the midrange poke game is probably more advised.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 29 June 2015 - 07:55 PM, said:

In that case it's a strong and heat efficient build, but a very short-ranged one.

For a mech that amounts to a walking CT (assuming it inherits IS Jenny hitboxes), playing the midrange poke game is probably more advised.

315 engine. range, is irrelevant.

[Roadkill]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 June 2015 - 07:52 PM, said:

6 SPL Jenner

Bishop Steiner, on 29 June 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

315 engine. range, is irrelevant.

I don't think range is irrelevant, but it can be partially solved with a mixed build.

4 SPL and 2 ERML would be the same heat as a 6 ML Jenner-F, but 8 extra damage in close and greater range when it needs it. And as you've noted, with a 315 engine it can pretty easily choose the range at which it wants to fight (or not fight, as the case may be).

But I'd still be tempted to just stick to 6 SPL to get the reduced heat. The 6 ML Jenner-F gets pretty toasty.

Edited by Roadkill, 29 June 2015 - 08:05 PM.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 29 June 2015 - 07:19 PM, said:

In that particular build, the 6 ERML is gonna have a pretty big alpha and way better range, though it might be a bit toasty...

For sustainability, the Jenny IIC could drop down to 5 or even 4 ERML, while still having range advantages (and damage, if you use 5).

4x & 5x CERMLAS will probably be the go-to builds.

4x CERMLAS + 2x CERSLAS will work too.

Allowing you to add some much lower heat higher alpha strikes at shorter ranges, while maintaining 28 point alpha pokes at 450m - but my guess is 5x CERMLAS with 295 to 300CXL.


A 295 frees up a half ton over a typical Jenner build, while maintaining a speed of 150kph.


Normally, for a Jenner, you really want that 300XL for the added crit slots - however Clan Endo, Clan Ferro & Clan XL means that you pick up sixteen extra crit slots over a typical Jenner - including being able to slot DHS in your legs & CT.

That will allow you to hit 16 DHS even without the 300XL.


Clan Ferro will see the JR7-IIC pick up an extra half ton (0.45) over a standard Jenner, which is just enough for that one JJ you need so you basically get a JJ "for free".

[Deathlike]

I'm leaning at lot towards 3 CERMED + 3 CSPL/CERSML.

This is similar to the old Jenner-Champion build (a terrible concept, since you need to run like 4 ML min on IS lights), but a more refined/realistic Clan version that will make the most of it.

Edited by Deathlike, 30 June 2015 - 11:58 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeah 16 DHS and 5 ER MLs, ( might try 6 for a bit just for floaty snipey action like I do with the 4 cERML Mist Lynx), and then the 6 cSPL build is going to be pretty nasty... its going to be very scary.

[Xarian]

Don't worry. If the Clan equipment is any good, I'm sure that the IS players will whine until the TDR and STK are back to being on top.

[C E Dwyer]

Xarian, on 30 June 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

Don't worry. If the Clan equipment is any good, I'm sure that the IS players will whine until the TDR and STK are back to being on top.

so sad

[Deathlike]

Gas Guzzler, on 30 June 2015 - 12:49 PM, said:

Yeah 16 DHS and 5 ER MLs, ( might try 6 for a bit just for floaty snipey action like I do with the 4 cERML Mist Lynx), and then the 6 cSPL build is going to be pretty nasty... its going to be very scary.

Ice Ferret, we hardly knew ye.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 29 June 2015 - 07:19 PM, said:

In that particular build, the 6 ERML is gonna have a pretty big alpha and way better range, though it might be a bit toasty...

For sustainability, the Jenny IIC could drop down to 5 or even 4 ERML, while still having range advantages (and damage, if you use 5).

4x C-ERSL + 2x C-ERML, or 4x C-ERML + 2x C-ERSL. Either one drops some heat and damage in exchange for dramatic improvements to cooling profile. Even 3x C-ERML + 3x C-ERSL would be pretty awesome.

6x C-ERML will definitely be toasty, though, even if you drop it down to a C-XL300. Not worth it for the range, in my opinon; you'll spend too much time cooling off and not enough time shooting the enemy.

[bad arcade kitty]

One Medic Army, on 29 June 2015 - 07:20 PM, said:

Longer range, lighter guns, hotter, faster.

The disparity will be more obvious with missiles, since clan SRMs are half-weight (significantly lighter), SRM6s take up only 1 crit, and otherwise the SRMs are the same.

Then there's the fact clan Endo and Ferro are straight up better. 7 slots vs 14, and clan ferro is a greater weight reduction.

meanwhile clan ballistic except gauss is strictly inferior to is ballistic despite being lighter

[One Medic Army]

bad arcade kitty, on 30 June 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

meanwhile clan ballistic except gauss is strictly inferior to is ballistic despite being lighter

UAC/20 may not have the pinpoint of the AC/20, but it's still pretty nasty due to double-shot.

[Y E O N N E]

bad arcade kitty, on 30 June 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

meanwhile clan ballistic except gauss is strictly inferior to is ballistic despite being lighter

That's not how trade-offs work. You don't get to have one advantage, and then pile on another, and another. Not only are the UAC lighter than standard ACs and require less slots, they also have longer range and double-tap capability. Did you honestly expect them to not give something up?

That said, since the change of interval to 0.11s, they aren't that bad. And nobody really takes ACs outside of some niche builds, even in the Inner Sphere. Clans have the Dakka Whale, IS have the Dragon.

[kesmai]

I will wait for the pack after this. The mechs will even more imbalanced. There must must be reason to buy, eh?

[Nightshade24]

Yeonne Greene, on 30 June 2015 - 11:42 PM, said:

That's not how trade-offs work. You don't get to have one advantage, and then pile on another, and another. Not only are the UAC lighter than standard ACs and require less slots, they also have longer range and double-tap capability. Did you honestly expect them to not give something up?

That said, since the change of interval to 0.11s, they aren't that bad. And nobody really takes ACs outside of some niche builds, even in the Inner Sphere. Clans have the Dakka Whale, IS have the Dragon.

IS have the...

Hunchback 4G, 4H, Grid iron (put a non gauss rifle on it, 25% quirk is still extremely solid), Dragon 1N, IV4, Atlas D, DDC, S, K, RS, Boars head, Urbanmechs, Locusts, Spider 5K, Blackjacks, Jagers. Shadowhawk,.. etc...

Clans? Couldron born, Direwolf. (fullstop)...

Soon the Hunchback IIC, orion, and highlander will join the fun. But till then... it's 2 clans verse handful of IS... well more then a hand full. Half of them do not even need quirks to be good at ballistics... ie jager, blackjack, etc.