23 replies to this topic

[m]

Hello everyone,

Recently I have come across quite a few calculating and out of control Team Killers with fresh accounts (more than I have ever come across). I assume it is because no formal system that is strict enough has been implemented and people are choosing to abuse the player base. Either way, from my observance of these problem players, these are in no way accidents and their actions sway a match incredibly in the opposite direction on purpose. I have noticed this is especially the case when there is an Event/Tournament weekend when stats matter.


Here is the solution I propose:

i) If you kill 12 teammates within 288 hours of gameplay time, you are suspended from game play for 12 days. 'Game play' does not represent restriction of access to your account within the game or within the forum.

ii) If within the first 30 seconds of 'game play' you decide to kill a teammate on accident or not, it counts as 2 team kills against your team kill limit.

iii) If after your first suspension of 12 days you decide to kill 12 more teammates within 288 hours of gameplay, you will be suspended from game play for 24 days.

iv) Upon returning, after your second suspension, your team kill limit toward suspension will be permanently halved to 6 and have a 36 day minimum suspension amount.

v) If after 37 days you do not team kill anyone, regardless if you have had a suspension or not, your team kill amount will be reset.




I hope everyone is able to understand the logic behind said amounts. Also please feel free to comment on why you chose to vote the way you had, or to possibly add improvements to the solution I proposed.


Have a nice day everyone.

[TheArisen]

This could almost be considered too lenient with it's limit. Obviously you need to be carful to not ban people for accidents, but I'd use 8 as the first limit and 4 as the tighter limit.

[m]

TheArisen, on 04 July 2015 - 12:41 AM, said:

This could almost be considered too lenient with it's limit. Obviously you need to be carful to not ban people for accidents, but I'd use 8 as the first limit and 4 as the tighter limit.

Temporary suspension from gameplay is what I am referring to. I never mentioned bans. There would be no bans. Bans are reserved for cheating and extreme special cases.

The system I propose is an automated one that does not auto-ban in any way, but instead promotes team play.

Edited by m, 04 July 2015 - 10:25 PM.

[MilesTeg1982]

I don't think this will work, as long as MWO is a F2P game its pretty simple just to create another account and go on with trolling/tk/etc.

All you would achieve is to ban people for being careless - granted, there are some idiots in game who just don't care about friendly fire who should be punished (reduce their CBill and XP income severly, let bichting betty ***** like hell).

However there are some situations in which players to kill friendly mechs without intention while beeing carefull (like that spider jumping over a DWF with its JJ and dropping down in front of the DWF right in the moment when the DWFs does an alpha strike and then complains ... no joke that really happend to me [DWF]). This would also drive many new players away from the game since many new players don't shoot as precise as veterans (not all of them, there are enough who should know better). The effect of banning a new player in a F2P game temporarly (12 days is actually really long) is very likely that the player just moves on to the next game.

[m]

MilesTeg1982, on 04 July 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

... as long as MWO is a F2P game its pretty simple just to create another account and go on with trolling/tk/etc.

That's my point entirely. If there is no automated system in place to adjudicate the problem within this class A title then nothing will ever be taken care of and players will go on, like they have since Day 1 of this game's inception (closed beta), to abuse the player base. It's time and overdue for an implementation like this.

MilesTeg1982, on 04 July 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

All you would achieve is to suspend people for being careless - granted, there are some idiots in game who just don't care about friendly fire who should be punished (reduce their CBill and XP income severly, let bichting betty ***** like hell).

Please keep in mind the numbers/amounts I have written above account for carelessness. Killing on average 1 teammate every 3 days sorts out the careless players from those that abuse the player base, which is a pretty good average. I have went across many ELO brackets and time zones on purpose to observe differences in gameplay. Those that abuse the player base today can kill upwards to and beyond 12 teammates in 3 days by comparison and sway many matches for the opposing team.

A typical handling of a problem player today takes time from both the affected player, PGI, and in some cases the transmission medium such as an email handler to report the problem player. I suspect in most cases no one even reports a calculating team killing player because the calculating player is very 'calculating' in their actions and performs their team killing during tournaments/events (even outside of tournaments/events which I found to be very odd) in a very stealthy manner.

As for the term "ban", you should try not to misuse it in this case as there would be no ban. It would only be a suspension from game play and not be restrictive in any way to a user's account in the application or the forums, as the term "ban" would imply. What the literal action of the suspension would entail is the player not being able to Drop within a match. I went ahead and changed in the reply quotes where you said "ban" to "suspend" so there is no confusion for those that read this.

MilesTeg1982, on 04 July 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

However there are some situations in which players to kill friendly mechs without intention while beeing carefull (like that spider jumping over a DWF with its JJ and dropping down in front of the DWF right in the moment when the DWFs does an alpha strike and then complains ... no joke that really happend to me [DWF]).

New players who are completely new to the game would not kill 12 teammates within 37 days without it being on purpose. All games today monitor team killing in some automated fashion. This game oddly enough does not. If for some reason a new player does kill 12 teammates in 37 days then they really need to make sure they don't make the same mistake in a repetitive fashion. If anything this would encourage the new player (and even the current player base) to play better, which I personally think is great. No more sloppy playing. It's about time people, including PGI, take this game seriously if they intend take this game to a Major League Gaming type of scenario.

MilesTeg1982, on 04 July 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

This would also drive many new players away from the game since many new players don't shoot as precise as veterans (not all of them, there are enough who should know better). The effect of suspending a new player in a F2P game temporarly (12 days is actually really long) is very likely that the player just moves on to the next game.

This game has a very high retention rate for new players from what I understand from the president of PGI whom mentioned something to that effect in one of the town hall meetings some time ago. If a player, who is new, decides to just focus on team killing then they will receive what is justifiable. If they team kill on accident once and a while, which everyone does, that's fine and obviously nothing will happen.

If they are still a cadet, reach their team kill limit, and become suspended for 12 days, I suppose letting a cadet have another tier, or a dual 12 day tier if you will, would be acceptable until they leave cadet so they are not automatically in the second suspension tier coming out of cadet.

Also keep in mind, I would rather PGI focuses on completing this game as opposed to handling administrative support for things like this which is just busy work if you think about it. Having something like this implemented would be a huge load off their backs and would in fact be of a benefit to everyone.

[Rexxxxxxxxx]

The proposed limits are too lenient.

If someone has more than two maybe three teamkills in a match.they should be banned from playing for four hours.

If they do it again, they should be banned for a day, and so on.

I know I have never had more than a single team kill in match.
Two team kills and your either purposefully doing it, or your really, really bad and no one wants to play with you anyway.

Rexxxxxxxxx

[Obelus]

You want to stop team killing have a player shut down when they shoot a friendly and be forced to power back up.

[cgibboney]

What about making it so that no trial mech can inflict damage to another mech on the same team, that way they have to either purchase a mech with real money or work for it either case it should detour those from doing it.

[Tarogato]

I'd prefer a solution similar to World of Tanks.

Do a certain number of team kills (preferably team damage instead) in a certain period of time, your name turns a funny colour. Keep killing and your account gets suspended. Kill again even once after the suspension, you get another suspension. Play for x amount of hours to revert your name back to not-a-funny-colour.

Edited by Tarogato, 20 July 2015 - 11:40 PM.

[KleineVampir]

Here's my solution:

1 team kill = -1000 c-bills
2 tk's = -10,000 c-bills
3 tk's = -100,000 c-bills
4 tk's = -1,000,000 c-bills
5 tk's = -2,000,000 c-bills
6 tk's = -2,000,000 c-bills
7 tk's = 1-month ban

It would be on a 48-hour counter that could be universal for everybody, or individualized. Whatever works better programming/server-wise. So 7 tk's in a 48-hour period would get you banned for 30 days, and you would have less money coming back. Probably none since good players tend to just have a bunch of money and actually NOT tk.

[Hotthedd]

The penalties and # of "acceptable" team kills is WAY to lenient. I can count on one hand the number of TKs I have committed since I started playing at the end of closed beta.

[Sabotai]

I think teamkilling is not a problem, but it should be tied around friendly fire damage aswell, the C-bill deniance should be 100k or 150k, that would make one think twice before landing a killing blow.

Team damage should be also removed from the C-bils you make in a game, equal to the damage you deal, component destruction should penaltize for extra on top of that.


This would make people think twice before shooting teammate's arms or legs but I know it could also promote new type of friendly fireing, intentional blocking, not that it doesn't already happen..

That would be great start for it.


I have killed around 3 teammates during my time, which none were accidents(dem afkers), I have also dismembered around 10-13 teammates, aka removing arm(s) or leg, and I don't get penaltized from that, I have been dismembered few times by teammates, I have alpha striked my teammates intentionally to legs and arms without getting penalty since they have been blocking me or shooting me or walking in front of me(taking my spot).

Anything mentioned above exept for getting killing blow, does not get penalty, and I will surely use them to punish my teammates if they force it upon me. Your solution would only promote component destruction griefing more.

Edited by Sabotai, 21 July 2015 - 11:19 AM.

[VinJade]

I don't know about the damage thing,
I have accidentally hit two players once with my Large Lasers when they ran in front of me and then another time I had fired my LRMs in almost point blank range at a Jenner and nailed a friendly when they came in to finish the Jenner off.

there are just so many ways of FF can happen that it isn't funny.

[m]

TheArisen, on 04 July 2015 - 12:41 AM, said:

This could almost be considered too lenient with it's limit.

Rexxxxxxxxx, on 19 July 2015 - 10:02 PM, said:

The proposed limits are too lenient.

Hotthedd, on 21 July 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

The penalties and # of "acceptable" team kills is WAY to lenient.

The reason I mentioned the values I had is because if there was a strict value system in place we would clearly drive people away. Going to a middle-of-the-road (albeit still fairly strict, but not too strict) type of design like I had mentioned still gets something implemented. Sure it's not a hammer to remove the individuals immediately but it will eventually at a given pace, and it still limits their ability to perform the amount of teamkilling they perform down to an extremely limited reasonable amount as opposed to an infinite amount that is in place now.

The idea here is to implement something automated, and if it is automated it shouldn't be too strict, just strict enough. Let the Admins within PGI make the very strict calls on severe player abuse.

Tarogato, on 20 July 2015 - 11:34 PM, said:

I'd prefer a solution similar to World of Tanks.

Do a certain number of team kills (preferably team damage instead) in a certain period of time, your name turns a funny colour. Keep killing and your account gets suspended. Kill again even once after the suspension, you get another suspension. Play for x amount of hours to revert your name back to not-a-funny-colour.

Only problem with that is that it still promotes the individual to disrupt events and causes the team to focus on that individual instead of the match at hand. It doesn't solve the problem. It just lets it linger as a social notice/disturbance.

Sabotai, on 21 July 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

I think teamkilling is not a problem, but it should be tied around friendly fire damage aswell, the C-bill deniance should be 100k or 150k, that would make one think twice before landing a killing blow.

Team damage should be also removed from the C-bils you make in a game, equal to the damage you deal, component destruction should penaltize for extra on top of that.


This would make people think twice before shooting teammate's arms or legs but I know it could also promote new type of friendly fireing, intentional blocking, not that it doesn't already happen..

That would be great start for it.

If we had to pay toward repair then I would agree entirely that Friendly Fire should be accounted for, in that they should pay for repairs. But we no longer pay for repairs unfortunately. We do of course pay toward the loss of play in a match when a member of our own Team destroys our mech completely (we only earn a fraction of what we would normally earn, whereas they continue to earn).

But if everyone could consider what I mention below along with the implementation mentioned originally (If CBill and XP deduction was a needed factor as well) that would be great;

If the 'Accumulative C-Bills Per Match' and 'Avg. XP Per Match' statistic was used against a Team Killing player that would be of benefit.

For instance, if your 'Accumulative C-Bills Per Match' was for instance 25 000 CBills, and your 'Avg. XP Per Match' was 250 XP, they, the Team Killer, would be negated from earning that amount that match based on your skill. So depending on your performance in Mechwarrior Online, for instance if you earn 100 000 CBills Per Match and 1000 Avg. XP Per Match, that would in fact cause a small dent in their future gameplay. Of course it would cause a massive dent if Repair and Rearm was within the game, but that's another matter entirely for a completely separate thread ( http://mwomercs.com/...mmunity-warfare ).

Sabotai, on 21 July 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

I have killed around 3 teammates during my time, which none were accidents(dem afkers)

Yeah you shouldn't kill someone who is AFK from the game. If they have slow connection issues or become disconnected they typically return which is what we all strived to have implemented in the game. I have seen a win with an AFK individual on my team though, during an event no less. They were AFK, we were all down, and the last enemy was trying to destroy the AFK mech. They overrided their heat and exploded (not sure if it was to beat the clock or not). We ended up winning. So from that experience I can deduce there really isn't any benefit from Team Killing an AFK teammate. Just leave them be.

Edited by m, 22 July 2015 - 03:36 PM.

[Chronic Cannon]

The problem is there are also a lot of ******** who do a lot of damage to you without killing you and move on. I kill those ******** as soon as I can. straight up tk isn't a great solution. i don't mind being penalized if it gets one of these jerkoff rags out of a match.

[VinJade]

@CC
The last time I came across one they killed me and went "Oh shut up you will still make money so stop your whining" and then killed themselves after taking out one or two other players in our lance more or less depriving my team of an entire lance.

[cowmagik]

I believe one week (168hours) to be a good time frame and the amount should be 8 TK's to allow new players to accidentally get one per day without punishing them before getting better at the game. Also 7 day suspension should be sufficient seeing as events don't normally go any longer than that. There should definitely be large C-Bill penalties for team damage over 50 in any game.

[Beaching Betty]

No.

TOO harsh..

[m]

Beaching Betty, on 27 February 2016 - 11:37 PM, said:

No.

TOO harsh..

What is "TOO harsh"?

The reason I ask is because my initial suggestion was said to be "too lenient" by people in this thread.

So I am left to assume you are referring to someone else and their suggestion.

No point in voting and providing a comment if the comment doesn't make sense to what you are referring to. Leads us to believe the vote doesn't make sense as well...

[VinJade]

I have TKed only once and it was out of my control.
It was a light who was hugging an enemy mech and my LRMs rain all over both and after sending volley after volley I dropped the enemy Marauder from behind a hill and taking the friendly spider with it.

once fired Missiles do their own thing and I am mainly a missile support machine and it isn't my fault at all yet I still get docked for it.

so your system would cause me trouble as well as it shows that if I can accidentally destroy an friendly with missiles once when it wasn't my fault at all what would happen if I accidentally manage to TK again because of my missiles?

I am already wary of using my secondary weapon system(medium lasers) whenever a friendly is close by because if I fire all of my Lasers I could deal crippling damage or outright destroy a friendly if I strike a part that had ammo or ready to drop because of them running in front of me as I have crippled friendlies before because ether they was close by when missiles came down on them or they run in front of me when I fired my weapons.

I know we are talking about doing many TKs close together but still if I can drop one friendly by mistake with missiles what would happen if we have another heavy damaged friendly/s close to the enemy target and my hail of missiles take out another one or more?

it is a big what if but it does have good odds of doing so, and I have no control over missiles once fired.

all this system would do is make me second guess myself more than I do and as it is I miss chances to drop enemy units because I am worried of doing damage or destroying friendlies if they run across as I fire my lasers or I don't see them in time...

Edited by VinJade, 05 March 2016 - 02:15 AM.