178 replies to this topic

[Douglas Reichel]

I'm really quite confused...Gundam 00 and 00-Quanta have near planet-destroying power, are all but indestructible, and can teleport. I'm not including the telepathy and whatnot since that's dependent entirely on the pilot. The other Gundams of the 00 show aren't terribly far behind. Now, as for the other Gundam shows, they're not as powerful by a long shot, but still better by far than the average battlemech. G Gundam does not exist, no show, no manga, nothing...it's an evil lie that must be forgotten. Armored Cores too are significantly superior to battlemechs in both speed and overall firepower.

Transformers' weapons are little better than those of modern artillery, and their defenses are no more advanced either. But even so, again their agility is far outside the scope of battlemechs. A battlemech would have to be extremely lucky to score even one hit, and it would take several. While the transformer will score multiple hits, can grapple on 'mech scale as effectively as a person on human scale, and can still dish out just enough punishment to be a threat.

Now as for what's coolest...that's pure opinion and kind of silly to ask on a Mechwarrior forum...of course Battlemechs are going to win that one around here.

[Imagine Dragons]

*sigh*

There should really be ground rules for these... things...

1. Are we comparing the average/mass produced units? Or Adavanced Prototypes? Or the biggest pieces of metal machinery we can find?

2. Realism yes/no? AKA SuperRobot vs RealRobot

[Zakatak]

Not sure if make Elemental vs Space Marine thread... maybe with some ground rules this time.

Anyone up for that? Any point of putting Spartans in?

[Strum Wealh]

Zakatak, on 21 July 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

Not sure if make Elemental vs Space Marine thread... maybe with some ground rules this time.

Anyone up for that? Any point of putting Spartans in?

I would go with making it powered armor in general, with some of the initial options being:

• BT Battle Armor (both Clan and IS, classic era only)
  
• Iron Man type Armor (prime universe/Earth-616 only; includes all Iron Man variants (e.g. HulkBuster), as well as War Machine and other armors built with similar tech)
  
• Venom/Carnage symbiotes (prime universe/Earth-616 only)
  
• UNSC SPARTAN program (Human-Covanent war era, Spartan II and III only)
  
• Sangheili/"Elite" armor (Human-Covanent war era, including Arbiter armor)
  
• 40K IoM Space Marines
  
• Guyver armor (I, IIF, and III; includes "Gigantic" module)
  
• Terran Federation Mobile Infantry powered armor (Starship Troopers, novel and anime versions only)
  
• Nanosuit (Crysis)
  
• Samus Aran's armor (Metroid)
  
• Knight Sabres' Hard-Suits (Bubblegum Crisis, both versions)

The basic rules would be:
1.) No "god suits" (e.g. built to mess with or travel trough time, or destroy galaxies/universes).
2.) No "god characters" (e.g. Chuck Norris, Goku) in otherwise-allowed armors.
3.) All proposals must be actual powered-armors that may be worn and removed by their respective characters.

• Mecha where the operator operates the unit from a cockpit rather than from wearing the unit are not valid entries.
  
• Mecha that are teleoperated (without an actual wearer) are not valid entries.
  
• True robots (which do not need an operator) that happen to be able to carry a passenger within them (e.g. Hesperus in House of Suns) are not valid entries.
  
• Full cyborgs (e.g. RoboCop, 8th Man) are not valid entries.
  
• "Fully-retractable" suits (e.g. Iron Man Extremis Armor, Guyver armor, Venom/Carnage symbiotes) are valid entries.

4.) "God mode" versions of otherwise-allowed armors (e.g. Iron Man + Cosmic Cube) are not valid entries.

5.) All instances of combat are one-on-one, using only abilities inherent to the armor and its associated equipment; for example, using the armor's built-in radio to call in an orbital strike or naval bombardment is not allowed.
6.) All assertions must be able to be supported by canon examples or real-world science.

Your thoughts?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 22 July 2012 - 08:04 AM.

[JFlash49]

interesting

[MightyRando]

Pretty much, I think Transformers are superior. They are sentient, after all.

[KuroNyra]

Tsss, No one of this guy's can beat THAT ONE

[Nebfer]

Ok I'de like to know how you came up with these numbers

Zakatak, on 10 July 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

I redid the numbers (obviously not because I'm a Battlemech fanboi, duh) taking BTech armors' ablative behavior into account, as well as basing the kJ/Mol average on this picture.



I got a slightly more tame 3GJ yield for the ER PPC, which seems closer to correct after comparing it with other sources in the BTech universe. Okay, so a Fafnir could still technically use its HGR's as jumpjets, but something else to consider first. One strong point of BTech technology is making things light. A Leviathan warship is half the mass of a Galaxy-class, despite being quadruple the volume. With modern/Warhammer technology, I bet an Atlas would mass in at 400 tons or so. You may have also noticed how strangely heavy weapons are in comparison in comparison to everything else, however. The RAC/2 and the GAU/8 are basically the exact same thing, firing 30mm explosive and armor piercing shells are very high rates of fire. The GAU/8 is about 300kg, the RAC/2 is about 8 tons. lolwut? This trend continues elsewhere.

One fair assessment is that they are so heavy and bulky because they have very high-grade and thick barrels, as well as advanced recoil systems. The object of this obviously dealing with the gigajoule rated cannons or slugs without wearing down over time (some Orions have been in service for 400 years!). Consider the Thompson SMG and the Kriss Vector. Both fire 45ACP ammunition and are effective out to 100m. The difference is that the Thompson kicks like a mule so hard that it can dislocate untrained shoulders, even at 600RPM (military, not mafia version). The Vector fires at nearly double the fire rate, but it has kickback and recoil that is barely noticeable. Advanced recoil reducing devices can spread the kinetic energy is directions besides backward, and I imagine reducing recoil was an advancement the Inner Sphere made as time went on. For example, gauss rifles with free-floating barrels that absorbed recoil and spread it in a circle.

Your turn Vulpes.

"Zak, go look at the TRO artwork for the gauss rifle. Clearly i-"
"Why don't you shut up and go play your Japanese games?!"
"Fanboi."
"Get out of my thread."

Might I ask how you came up for multi gigajoules for energy weapons? Vaporization energy of the armor?

B-tech armor is made from Steel and CBN (which is reinforced by Diamond fibers, Ferro adds diamond to the steel layer)
to melt a single point of this is roughly 200 megajoules, however to factor in the armor ablating and shedding it self, one could reduce this to about 40 or so megajoules per point, still a small laser being ~120 megajoules is still a impressive weapon...

Also do not confuse Energy weapons and Kinetic weapons the amount of Jules might be the same but the damage mechanic are not the same, so you can not calculate a value for one and port it over to the other system.

However B-tech ballistic weapons are quite capable. Era report 2750 mentions that autocannons have fighter rates of fire, better shell design, more accurate and higher velocity's when compared to "older" weapons (I.e. today's gear)

Gauss Rifles are been constently mentioned to fire 125kg slugs at hypersonic speeds, this results in battleship level yields (that 355 megajoules mentioned for a 16 inch battleship shell, is a possible value for a B-tech Gauss rifle), working down an AC-2 has easily three times the Ke of the M256 120mm Gun on the M1 Abrams MBT. (while it might not penetrate it's frontal armor the crew would not likely enjoy it).


As for the other universe, well im not all that well versed in most of them however from what has been said here and from what I have seen in debates elsewhere I can give the following...


WH40k Titans
Armored Core
Will generally beat a battlemech, for Armored Cores your needing B-tech Aerospace fighters for this, and Titans are Generally above B-techs pay grade...

However for the most part the rest will depend on what series your looking at, for example a battlemech might deal with a Destroid from Macross with not to much of a problem but one from Macross Frontier and the battlemech is in for a bad day (ASF wise it's like this in Macross the Vertech has 1-3G accelration but by the time Frontier shows up their at 25Gs..., B-tech tops out at ~11ish).

Gundam 00: I have not seen this (UC Gundam fan though), but for the most part B-tech can do well enough, though they do have some gear that will be hard for B-tech to deal with. Though if one wants to deal with say the UC gundams then B-tech has it a bit easier (interesting fact UC Gundam the effects of Beam rifles and what naught can be reduced by Ablative coatings, guess what B-tech armor likes to do...), one of the biggest issues for UC Gundam (and some other ones as well) is that the stated acceleration rates in space make them almost sitting ducks for B-tech ASFs (The Gundam RX-78 has roughly 1G of acceleration, the slowest ASF 4Gs...) Also Mobile suits are typically 18m tall, about 50% bigger than a B-mech, an interesting quirk of fate, is that their are rules for 18m tall super heavy mechs in B-tech and they are easier to hit due to their size...

Zoids, not to much experience here, but they are fast which can cause some issue for mechs however The listed top speed of a battlemech is technically not it's over all top speed, their is sprinting rules to be considered... (effectively free MASC for all mechs but produces more heat and the unit can not attack, it also stacks with MASC...) So a Locust 6M which with MASC can reach 302kph can in fact reach 378kph if it sprints and uses MASC (though theirs a few other rules that can increase the over all top speed a bit, if used that Locust can reach 410kph...).

Transformers would probly depend on what series your looking at...

VTs No experience, at lest equal I belive.

Though B-tech will beat
Heavy Gear
B-tech small laser with a yeild pf say 120 megajoules at say one second duration would be 120 Megawatts, a powerfull HG laser cannon is 30 Megawatts... HG Heavy autocannon are in the 40mm range Thats AC-2 range (AC-5 at best)...

Worse off from what I an tell B-tech ships have vastly better accelration rates (HG seems to uses a burn-coast-deburn profile taking them weeks to months to get to and from their jump points, B-tech uses a burn-deburn profile and can get to and from their jump points in about a week on avrage, which indicates that B-tech ships have a mobility advantage...

Edited by Nebfer, 06 September 2012 - 11:15 PM.

[Colonel Jaime Wolf]

nice poll, but I'm pretty excited about the re-boot of Heavy Gear...

[Rapter120]

Reiv3r, on 05 July 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

Armored core, easily.

Those designs are just /SEXY/..

hell yes

[Solis Obscuri]

Dafuqs a zoid?

[Lt Limpy]

The top results of this poll shouldn't surprise anyone.

[Imagine Dragons]

Solis Obscuri, on 29 November 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Dafuqs a zoid?

Perhaps the most blatant but well thought out anime that accompanied model sets...

They are giant robot animal-esque vehicles that fight each other for various reasons...

[Dirus Nigh]

Gobots

[Fiachdubh]

Where are Macross/Robotech? I was going to vote for them.

Never mind I read the options using my eyes this time.

Edited by Fiachdubh, 03 December 2012 - 03:36 PM.

[The Governator]

I have to say an Armored Core would eat everything on the battle field for a small snack. Also they are a minimum of 11 stories tall to 1/2 kilometers tall in AC4A. They move at speeds that reach 2400 Kph and can carry guns that fire bullets the size of an Atlas and have energy shielding to lessen damage. If you want to argue I will happily accept a challenger for armored Core 4 on Xbox 5-8 pm standard mountain time saturdays and sundays. My gamertag is PSCHOMECH ( and it is in all caps...) just tell me when and what game type and I will be there.

[Socket7]

I am very disappointed that there is no option for Evangelions.

[Fabe]

Socket7, on 06 December 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

I am very disappointed that there is no option for Evangelions.

I don't know,Evangelion is one of my favorite series but I EVAs do have a pretty big flaw. The JSDF/SEELE had the right Idea when they took out Unit 2's umbilical cable.even if the mass production units didn't show up Auska would have been SOL in 5 minutes at the most any ways. Unless unit 2 was in berserker mode the that would have been a whole other story.

[Socket7]

S2 engines simply weren't ready for units 00 through 02.

Unit 01...

Spoiler

...ingested ... an S2 engine when it tore apart the 14th angel and ate it, and no longer actually needed external power.

SEELE didn't really want NERV having Evangelions with S2 engines, considering that 3 self powered Evangelions could easily take over the world. Nothing but another Eva could defeat them thanks to their AT fields, and until the SEELE series came online, NERV had the only ones.

Once the SEELE series Eva's came online with S2 engines... Well, we saw how that worked out for poor Asuka. One of the many more brutal scenes in the original movies.

It was the brutality of Shinji's battle with Unit 03 that caused Japanese sponsors to get cold feet and made the last few episodes of the TV series so damn strange. In the last 2 episodes they were literally working with storyboard art in places.

Edited by Socket7, 06 December 2012 - 11:03 PM.