335 replies to this topic

[Gallowglas]

Koniving, on 08 July 2015 - 04:49 AM, said:

Now what was more fun? With.... or without?
I'd say without.

But you tell me which was better.

I can tell you definitively that my personal experience was much more positive with turrets. The only annoyance was the LRM turrets for obvious reasons.

Did we still get cap rushes? Certainly. However, a single light didn't get to change the course of the entire game because people didn't want to sit at the base idle watching TV and hoping that a light would show up at base and not run away. What happened was usually either a variant on skirmish or a more coordinated, planned push to base, which felt more reasonable by far. We have had players who actively choose assault mode just because it reduced the amount of toilet bowl/NASCAR behavior.

YMMV. Clearly you've had some bad experiences, but that crops up in every game mode.

Koniving, on 08 July 2015 - 04:49 AM, said:

And if light rushes are a problem, then why not make it that the assault bases need to be destroyed instead of camped on... so that some real firepower needs to be brought to bear?

I'd be fine with some solution like that. However, we do have lights in the game that have considerable firepower. When range doesn't matter, those SL and SPL Firestarters wouldn't blink at that kind of restriction. That said, I think it's appropriate to have some level of risk in the mix, too. It's silly that one player can win the match in fairly trivial fashion because everyone else happens to be distracted by combat.

[White Bear 84]

Sam Slade, on 08 July 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

Host State Rewind Fixes and Improvements

• HSR algorithm now rewinds animation state when compensating for ping
  
• Fixed some issues with the HSR algorithm that would contribute to missed shots

Optimizations

• Reduced client upstream bandwidth usage by approximately 40-45%
  
• Reduced client downstream bandwidth usage by approximately 20-25%

Best news from PGI in a year

But do not notice any improvements, if anything the hsr with lasers on a 250-270 ping is now worse..

[Wintersdark]

Gallowglas, on 08 July 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

I can tell you definitively that my personal experience was much more positive with turrets. The only annoyance was the LRM turrets for obvious reasons.

I think a good first step there would have been swapping LRM turrets for SRM (not SSRM) turrets. ML and SRM turrets would have been actually interesting; the LRM turrets created a huge exclusion zone that really sucked. Maps aren't big enough for base turrets to shell mechs a kilometer away.

Quote

Did we still get cap rushes? Certainly. However, a single light didn't get to change the course of the entire game because people didn't want to sit at the base idle watching TV and hoping that a light would show up at base and not run away. What happened was usually either a variant on skirmish or a more coordinated, planned push to base, which felt more reasonable by far. We have had players who actively choose assault mode just because it reduced the amount of toilet bowl/NASCAR behavior.

This is so exaggerated, though. One light, even with a capture accelerator, takes a long time to cap a base. You've got oodles of time to react, and if nobody reacts, it's 100% bad choices that lead to defeat.

Quote

YMMV. Clearly you've had some bad experiences, but that crops up in every game mode.

Yeah, I've had my share of bad experiences in all game modes too =) Honestly, though, I liked Assault a lot more where there are multiple win/loss vectors you have to juggle. It's also why I like Conquest. If I just want a straight up kill-all-the-mechs, it's Skirmish for me.

Quote

I'd be fine with some solution like that. However, we do have lights in the game that have considerable firepower. When range doesn't matter, those SL and SPL Firestarters wouldn't blink at that kind of restriction. That said, I think it's appropriate to have some level of risk in the mix, too. It's silly that one player can win the match in fairly trivial fashion because everyone else happens to be distracted by combat.

I kind of like it, to be honest. Don't be distracted so completely by combat, then - if you are, and you lose, it's because you played poorly. Look at the base cap as an abstraction of a mission objective. Maybe you're off to blow up an ammo dump, or whatever else.

So, if that's the case - you think about it that way - you're being attacked, and the reason the attackers are there is to accomplish something in particular. If you get distracted fighting, and a small force slips through and accomplishes their objective when you had intel that they were after that particular objective it's your own damn fault.

With turrets, that VERY rarely happened. I can only recall a single cap-win on assault since the turrets. You could for all intents and purposes just leave your base completely, knowing that turrets would provide early warning and slow attackers dramatically.This made cap-wins a very difficult process, and generally speaking never worthwhile.

[kka]

Is the class III jumpjets duration burn a nerf or a buff?

[Gallowglas]

Wintersdark, on 08 July 2015 - 10:07 PM, said:

I kind of like it, to be honest. Don't be distracted so completely by combat, then - if you are, and you lose, it's because you played poorly. Look at the base cap as an abstraction of a mission objective. Maybe you're off to blow up an ammo dump, or whatever else.

So, if that's the case - you think about it that way - you're being attacked, and the reason the attackers are there is to accomplish something in particular. If you get distracted fighting, and a small force slips through and accomplishes their objective when you had intel that they were after that particular objective it's your own damn fault.

With turrets, that VERY rarely happened. I can only recall a single cap-win on assault since the turrets. You could for all intents and purposes just leave your base completely, knowing that turrets would provide early warning and slow attackers dramatically.This made cap-wins a very difficult process, and generally speaking never worthwhile.

Wow, your experience with assault must have been very different than mine. While I wouldn't say it was super-common, there were still plenty of my games where someone did attempt a cap. Even if they didn't, turrets did play a role in stopping the toilet flush/NASCAR behavior and in allowing mechs in late game to mildly even the odds a bit. That said, I definitely agree that the LRM variants were too much.

As for the bit about playing poorly, as I have mentioned elsewhere, it's not really just that people reacted poorly. Nobody wanted to be the poor schmuck stuck at base twiddling their thumbs while everyone else had fun. If you did happen to find someone who tried to cap, it was usually a few lights which would promptly run away or a coordinated assault, which means you're not even a mild speedbump. It just isn't fun even if it's a means to potentially offset a win. Forgive me if I've already post this in this thread because I've lost track, but I'll repeat one of my own analogies: If successfully defending your base meant you had to type the preamble to the constitution backwards with oven mitts on over and over, would it be stupid if you didn't do that to prevent a base cap? Or would it be understandable because of the mind-numbing boredom of the task?

Wintersdark, on 08 July 2015 - 10:07 PM, said:

I liked Assault a lot more where there are multiple win/loss vectors you have to juggle. It's also why I like Conquest. If I just want a straight up kill-all-the-mechs, it's Skirmish for me.

Yeah, I don't mind multiple win vectors. I just think those vectors should be challenging, not trivial to accomplish and not supremely annoying to avoid. A perfect counter-point is CW where destroying base defenses is a key feature of the mode, isn't trivial to accomplish, and feels a LOT more visceral.

Edited by Gallowglas, 09 July 2015 - 04:14 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

kka, on 09 July 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

Is the class III jumpjets duration burn a nerf or a buff?

buff. The JJs now burn for longer.

[Wintersdark]

Gallowglas, on 09 July 2015 - 04:09 AM, said:

Wow, your experience with assault must have been very different than mine. While I wouldn't say it was super-common, there were still plenty of my games where someone did attempt a cap. Even if they didn't, turrets did play a role in stopping the toilet flush/NASCAR behavior and in allowing mechs in late game to mildly even the odds a bit. That said, I definitely agree that the LRM variants were too much.

Yeah, seriously, practically never. Capping took SO LONG, with lots of early warning due to the "your base is under attack" as people fought the turrets, it was just never really important. There was no judgement in reacting to that notification most of the time, because it would take so damn long to get through the turrets.

Quote

As for the bit about playing poorly, as I have mentioned elsewhere, it's not really just that people reacted poorly. Nobody wanted to be the poor schmuck stuck at base twiddling their thumbs while everyone else had fun. If you did happen to find someone who tried to cap, it was usually a few lights which would promptly run away or a coordinated assault, which means you're not even a mild speedbump. It just isn't fun even if it's a means to potentially offset a win. Forgive me if I've already post this in this thread because I've lost track, but I'll repeat one of my own analogies: If successfully defending your base meant you had to type the preamble to the constitution backwards with oven mitts on over and over, would it be stupid if you didn't do that to prevent a base cap? Or would it be understandable because of the mind-numbing boredom of the task?

But that was never necessary. Nobody has to stay at the base to defend it, just have someone in a faster mech able to intercept.

Hell, actively hunt them. Light players are always complaining about there being no need for scouting, this right here IS the need for scouting. Find those rushing mechs before they get to your base, identify how many/threat level.

Quote

Yeah, I don't mind multiple win vectors. I just think those vectors should be challenging, not trivial to accomplish and not supremely annoying to avoid. A perfect counter-point is CW where destroying base defenses is a key feature of the mode, isn't trivial to accomplish, and feels a LOT more visceral.

I do agree with this in principle, but I found turrets didn't do that. Turrets as we'd had them (even if you assume LRM's are gone) were either inconsequential (heavy/assault mechs) or lethal (any damage on a lighter mech, or worst, a locust).

Also, the maps where way too small for turret defended bases. While I appreciated when that stopped NASCAR races, there need to be better ways to stop that. It's not like always racing counterclockwise is a good strategy, after all; it's just an easy "default" strategy.

[PhoenixFire55]

Jaspbo1, on 08 July 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

but I just want to know, what exactly is bad with the new RC?

River City was one of the two maps that didn't leave much space for camping with long range drop decks, maximum open space you had was about 500m in the water behind the central building. Now it gives you 1500m of open space in the water and about 1200m in the upper base runway. Plus, overall visibility is far better, which leaves brawlers even less chances to get close without being shredded to pieces. For PUGs, just like pretty much anything else, it matters not. For competitive drops it does. Brawling was nearly dead before due to all maps having open spaces in abundance and poor SRM hit reg, now it isn't nearly dead, its entirely gone.

Add to that the idiotic implementation of time change where you get the morning-day-evening-night all within 20 minutes.

Jaspbo1, on 08 July 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

Personally me and a lot of the guys I play with didn't like it as it was in the current game, it's one of those maps that was more balanced and fun when the game was slower, but now with all the lights pushing 150kph and all the kind of meta there is, the map would seem too small even with 8v8. Too much boom, not enough cover, need rework, which could be used on making MM better if they chose to, or actually moving on instead of being stuck in the past.

I'm not even sure what kind of BS is this. Lights are pushing 150kph since closed beta for 3 years, and the current 'meta' seems to be 800m clan laservomit, that was limited on the old RiverCity and not limited anymore on the new one. As for 'lack of cover' on the old RiverCity map ... I can't even comment nonesense like that.

Jaspbo1, on 08 July 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

The new one though just accommodates for the 12v12, which is fine. Also destructible things.

Really? "Destructible" things? You know we had falling trees in MW games since 1995-ish, right? Such an epic achievement for MWO team to actually implement it.

I'm fine with it accommodating for 12v12. I am NOT fine with the old one being gone.

[Slambot]

Hmm 2 new hero mechs.... lets see here... no weapon quirks... im guessing these will not sell very well. I mean the armor and structure buffs are nice...but 9 energy hardpoints without the ability to use them without overheating on the first alpha... ill pass.

[Belorion]

Very nice patch...

[LordKnightFandragon]

Koniving, on 08 July 2015 - 04:49 AM, said:

You mean like we had with turrets?

Oh yeah, loads of fun.

Meanwhile... base defense!


More base defense!


Even more base defense -- with turrets!


Now what was more fun? With.... or without?
I'd say without.

But you tell me which was better.

And if light rushes are a problem, then why not make it that the assault bases need to be destroyed instead of camped on... so that some real firepower needs to be brought to bear?

Always thought bases should be destroyed anyway. No sense waiting for enemies to surrender while smoking a cig in the cockpit and standing next to them creepily waving "Hi there."

Watched that Atlas video, its insane how downright TOUGH the atlas is. YOu really took a ******* beating.

God I wish t his game would return to that state. Assault mech would really inspire FEAR into you. Knowing y ou gotta hammer the **** out of one.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 10 July 2015 - 08:30 PM.

[Bolter01]

I thought I had read that new server's would be in place soon, is the Oceanic server up yet?

[IraqiWalker]

Bolter01, on 10 July 2015 - 11:55 PM, said:

I thought I had read that new server's would be in place soon, is the Oceanic server up yet?

July 21st at the earliest. If everything goes well.

[michaelius]

Slambot, on 10 July 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

Hmm 2 new hero mechs.... lets see here... no weapon quirks... im guessing these will not sell very well. I mean the armor and structure buffs are nice...but 9 energy hardpoints without the ability to use them without overheating on the first alpha... ill pass.

Don't worry that's why we have "event"

[ExoForce]

- Big improvement in FPS for my mid range rig. River City rocks at E8 where orbital cannons are shooting at dropships. Also, what is that levitating dropship doing at B8? Moon is ridiculous.

- Great patch, very pleased. Congrats.

Edit: Hit registration and FPS improvement - reduced packet size? You havent calculated VPN header before so packets were fragmented?

Edited by ExoForce, 11 July 2015 - 09:08 AM.

[Bulletsponge0]

Slambot, on 10 July 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

Hmm 2 new hero mechs.... lets see here... no weapon quirks... im guessing these will not sell very well. I mean the armor and structure buffs are nice...but 9 energy hardpoints without the ability to use them without overheating on the first alpha... ill pass.

sounds like a clan mech

[Alienized]

good patch on first sight.
now that i played some CW battles.... it made everything worse against clans.
XL IS mechs die so fast.
lights (the secret weapon) even faster. SCR's still have those massively wonky hitboxes that make them near invulnerable on the move. (3 laservolleys of 2 med + 1 er large laser into a cherry red center. did not die)
even better long range camping for the clans on most CW maps.
er ppc speed buff helped clans more as well.

wheres the offset to all that?

Bulletsponge0, on 11 July 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

sounds like a clan mech

clanmechs can use small and small pulse lasers very well on each mech with many laser hardpoints.
IS mechs cant. you are not overheating as much in clanmechs at all as you do with IS mechs that want to reach up to clan mechs at any point. and if you are there you just lack the range and speed of them.

[Alexander Garden]

sizz0r, on 08 July 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

Btw, 02. June Patchnotes:

Panther PNT-10P

• Release date for purchase through the Gift Store: July 7th

... but it's not released there :-(

Apologies! Those variants will be going up in the Gift Store on July 21st.

Bolter01, on 10 July 2015 - 11:55 PM, said:

I thought I had read that new server's would be in place soon, is the Oceanic server up yet?

IraqiWalker, on 11 July 2015 - 12:24 AM, said:

July 21st at the earliest. If everything goes well.

EU servers are currently on-schedule for July 21st, but Oceanic have been pushed back just a little bit further. Shooting for August 4th, but that date isn't locked in just yet.

[IraqiWalker]

Alexander Garden, on 13 July 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:

Apologies! Those variants will be going up in the Gift Store on July 21st.



EU servers are currently on-schedule for July 21st, but Oceanic have been pushed back just a little bit further. Shooting for August 4th, but that date isn't locked in just yet.

Thanks for the updates Alexander.

You guys are pretty fantastic with your quick responses.

I know this is a bit off topic, but do you, or any of the staff you can ask, know if IIC mechs will have dynamic Endo and Ferro?

[Alianton]

mmm any word on where the oceanic servers will be located?