15 replies to this topic

[Wildstreak]

Only fair, the Jenner IIC has a topic, the Orion & Highlander kinda have one so......

Standard engines on a Hunchback IIC will make Ballistic loadouts tough.
A STD250 and near max armor (only 2 points missing) leaves 16 tons left, 250XL gives 22.
Since IS Hunchbacks using AC20s run 225 engines, a STD225 gives 19.5 tons, 225XL leaves 24.5 tons.
Endo raises those values by 2.5 tons, Ferro raises it by 1.12 tons.

Usually people run the 250s for ten true 2.0 DHS. I will presume no one will go below a 225 for the following except nostalgia fans wanting to run 2cAC20.

cAC below means any type of cAC (cAC, cLBX, cUAC)

Since a Nova does not have enough ports to represent all builds, just remember the 4 locked DHS plus 1JJ are not in the Hunchback IIC that gives it 4.5 tons more than any build shown below for things not shown. Doing Ballistic builds with a Nova is tough due to the locked DHS.

IIC and IIC-C
4cAC2 needs 20 tons just for the 4 guns so that's out except with a 225XL and no other weapons. 3cAC2 (15 tons) needs 250XL to have decent tonnage for ammo or go slower down to 225 of either type.

3cAC5 like a Jager-DD does, is 21 tons, barely fits with a 225XL. 2cAC5 (14 tons) can fit but needs XL or a STD225.

2cAC10/20 means you go slow and must run XL. 2cAC10 (20 tons)is like 4cAC2. 2cAC20 is stock engine, I doubt anyone but nostalgia buffs will try given this Mech has double the Hunch weakness, needs a XL even if a Clan one and is forced to move slow. cGauss is the same weight as cAC20.

Dual cERPPC/cLPL is possible but even with a few DHS and no Ballistics, hot. Engine would be a STD250.
Essentially the IIC and IIC-C will have to run odd Ballistic builds. The IIC will need MG backup or can skip slots but will need to be choosy in its 2 Energy. The IIC-C can do better on the Energy backup.

My view is both variants are really gonna be ranged builds unless you just do the Clan version of an IS build with more tonnage though that seems a waste.

IIC-A
Competing with the 4P IS Hunchback will be the Clan Dual Hunchwub (will have 1 more DHS than that and a STD250) with better heat handling, speed is roughly even though shorter range. It can also go
- all cERSLs for better range and buff the engine.
- cERMLs for more range though the heat is worse.
- some combination of cERSLs/cSPLs/cERMLs.

Dual Hunchwub does not even need Quirks, Endo or Ferro to work. Dual Hunhcwub will, at worst, tie the Laser Hunchback if not knock it down.

IIC-B
Using 2cLRM20 and 2cERML presuming it has 20 tube launchers, just add 1cLRM20 to that.

If less tubes, it can alsways do this plus 3cLRM10.

You want SRMs?
Standard SRMs, room for 3 more cSRM6.

Here is the Streak version with room for the other 3cSSRM6. Drop to cSSRM4 if you want DHS.

From these, it is hard to say how the final heat value will be, all may run a bit hot but they will still be viable. Other versions yet to come. I will say for now a tie between the IIC-B and the 4J/4SP. I also presume IIC-B will have no hunches.

TLDR Conclusions
Despite not having the Mechs yet, Ballistic Hunchbacks look to favor the IS side, Laser may favor Clan, Missile wise Clan has more punch but IS is less ammo dependent so they may be tied here. One advantage for the Clans is the IIC and IIC-C will have certain qualities similar to the Jagermech/Blackjack in regard to ridge peeking and figuring out how to pack Ballisitics not as bad as Jackies but not as good as Jagers.

Hunchback IIC may bring complaints about the Nova though some like Nova-tarting.

Edited by Wildstreak, 01 July 2015 - 09:35 AM.

[juxstapo]

I can't help but see the thing as the lightest dual-gauss poptartlet ever. (Drop in replacement for those big twenties).

This is one mech I see as being fun and interesting because of it's shortcomings, but I'm also a fluff nut, so.

[bad arcade kitty]

its b stock version has 4 x ssrm-6, 6 tons of ammo, 2 mpl and 8 heat sinks, also 4 jump jets but 200xl engine definitely should be changed to maximum... so it's 6.5 tons more from 200 to 275, 7.5 since it needs cap, also its stock armor is just 256, it needs 2.6 tons of armor to get max, let's 2.5 to get almost max so it needs 10 tons

it has a plenty of available podspace if we ditch heatsinks and some of the jump jets... they probably weight 0.5 tons each like tbt ones so we ditch 8 heatsinks, 3 jump jets and 0.5 tons of ammo to get these 10 tons

so we can have a 98 (89 without the speed tweak) kmh 4 x ssrm-6 2 mpl jumping (1 jj) streakboat with cap and 5.5 tons of ammo

alternatively we can downgrade one of mpl to ml but 137.5 missile per ssrm-6 is a good number, it's an alternative of 5 ssrm-6 and 7 tons of ammo (140 per launcher), if it still proves too little (who knows, it's just 1100 of potential damage), one can downgrade a laser or take some armor

i'm not very excited since 4 * ssrm-6 is not 5 and i'm not very fond of lasers on streakboats, but it's an interesting idea

upd
wait, im silly, i forgot that the stock armor isn't ff, if we pick ff not only we have enough space for 6 tons of ammo (which may be too much for 4 ssrm-6, needs testing) but we also have place for 1 more jj

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 01 July 2015 - 10:10 PM.

[Scout Derek]

I luv hunchie IIC for dem jjs and dual racks to stick it up those assaults arses :-D

[Wildstreak]

juxstapo, on 01 July 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

I can't help but see the thing as the lightest dual-gauss poptartlet ever. (Drop in replacement for those big twenties).

This is one mech I see as being fun and interesting because of it's shortcomings, but I'm also a fluff nut, so.

Won't be many, dual gauss on this Mech will be more dangerous to the pilot than a dual gauss Jager.

[zudukai]

the build with 4 heavy large lasers is probably going to be beast stock, but since it would more likely then not break ghost heat it's probably not the best build for it. (crossing my fingers that we even get heavy lasers)

a saving grace for this mech will come if it has good jump jets, and the pilot will still need to position himself well, but twin any 20 class AC will be a crippling blow to most mechs, and a severe blow to anything else, i do not think that the armor values will hold it back by much, since most people are already aware that you can down armor the arms to bring that back to normal levels.

TBH, i do not think you can get a STD clan engine, but why would you want to? particularly in this mech, if you loose both your sides, what else do you really have to fight? 2 Sml heavy lasers? keep the clan XL and run around with your balls out

[N a p e s]

I will play this thing as intended with barely any armor, the biggest guns it can take and total kill vision.

[juxstapo]

After selling off every clan mech 'cept my (I) variants, this will be my desperate bid to be reinstated as a warrior.

[Wildstreak]

This for reference regarding builds like the Dual Gauss claimed to be OP and killer.

Let's play math.

You keep the 40/8 armor on the side torsos.
You have 24 internal health.
We will go crazy and say PGI give you the best quirks of the IS Hunchback for the side torsos, 18 armor and 12 internals.
We will use the 30+ alpha requirement I see people mentioning on the forums for your opposition. Several easy ways to achieve it.

One 30 point alpha, you are down to 10 armor on a side plus quirk.
Two 30 alphas, all armor including quirk is gone and 2 internal, you have 22 plus quirk internals left.
Three 30 alphas, your side is gone, 8 points left over and the Guass critted for another 20 making 28 points transferring.

Some Mechs can do better than a 30 alpha strike.

How much did your dual Gauss do back?
You require 4.75 seconds between firings and have a 30 point alpha.
Various ways of doing 30 Alphas:
- 6 IS MLs, 3 seconds between firings, did 3 alphas in about 7 seconds, you did two. 6 IS MPLs in the same time frame for 36 point alpha, 6 Clan ERMLs do 42, 6 Clan MPLs do 48.
- 3 UAC5s, 1.66 seconds between firings presuming no jam, did 3 double alphas in 6 seconds, you did two.
- IS AC20 + AC10, 4 seconds between firings, did 3 alphas in about 9 seconds, you did two.
- 3 SRM6s, 4 seconds between firings with 36 point alphas, did 3 alphas in 9 seconds, you did two.

Want to twist and spread damage? You are mostly side torso so you are just spreading from one big honking torso to the other. By the math above, 6 alphas takes out both your torsos, you probably did 4 30 point alphas from your Gauss. A lot of enemies are outdamaging you because they do more alphas than you do in the same time period and some of theirs are higher. It is known that anytime a dual Gauss is seen on the field, smart players focus it if not avoid it until they can focus it.
Dual Gauss Jagers get away with it because their Gauss is in the arms and opponents shoot the side torso for the engine crit thus the Jager avoids the 20 point explosion.
Dual Gauss Crabs are 100 tons, double the Hunch IICs mass thus armor and internals, it will be some time before you get into the Crab, the Gauss is in the arms like the Jager so not getting shot and the Crab has other weapons.
Dual Gauss K2s are not seen anymore. Guess why?

Dual Gauss Hunchback IICs will have those nice 20 point fireworks in the side torsos. "But Clan XL engines do not kill the mech when a side torso is shot off!" you say. Big whoop, you ignored that your side torso's Gauss when it gets critted, and it will in 2-3 alphas, adds a free 20 point bonus to your opponents damage some of which transfers to your center. Add in how easier it will be to shoot those side torsos with the hunch and how little your probable armor/structure quirk buff matters, your Dual Gauss Hunch is dying faster than those Dual Gauss Jagers and Crabs.

Recently found video of several Dual Gauss Hunchback IICs getting shot in various battles.

[Tahribator]

The IIC is a straight upgrade to the regular HBK, in pretty much every way. Even without any quirks I can see it dethroning the Stormcrow (like it needs it with the current nerfs) simply because of the amount of high-mounted hardpoints.

Especially I can see the the Gauss+5xML+16xDHS+XL250+JJ build becoming really popular, since it's pretty much a mini-Hellbringer with jump jets.

Edited by Tahribator, 03 July 2015 - 05:50 AM.

[Wildstreak]

Tahribator, on 03 July 2015 - 05:44 AM, said:

The IIC is a straight upgrade to the regular HBK, in pretty much every way. Even without any quirks I can see it dethroning the Stormcrow (like it needs it with the current nerfs) simply because of the amount of high-mounted hardpoints.

Especially I can see the the Gauss+5xML+16xDHS+XL250+JJ build becoming really popular, since it's pretty much a mini-Hellbringer with jump jets.

No offense but neither the IIC or IIC-C can use 5 Energy.

[zudukai]

Wildstreak, on 03 July 2015 - 04:35 AM, said:

This for reference regarding builds like the Dual Gauss claimed to be OP and killer.

yes, the build is going to be very high risk, high reward, the mech can play it's huge peeking strength from 1000m, with JJ's to get the best positions to mitigate incoming fire.

tonnage games gives it a very strong position because of it's firepower to weight, even without the Gauss build, other builds however will surely need friends, but for a medium ballistic boat, it will be king.

i think the mech is going to be very strong in many regards, the best example on the Gauss point i can think of is the Grid Iron, many people are running it with XL these days and it gets away with it due to it's long range, the IIc is going to do the same with a higher alpha and lower DPS, with the addition of jumpjets to find better sniping positions.

i also think that you forget that Clan mechs automatically have CASE and thus a Gauss crit will not transfer inward.

[bad arcade kitty]

>i also think that you forget that Clan mechs automatically have CASE

omni mechs do
as for iic... they probably will not

[Wildstreak]

bad arcade kitty, on 06 July 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

>i also think that you forget that Clan mechs automatically have CASE

omni mechs do
as for iic... they probably will not

Indeed, remember these IIC Mechs were given to pilots the Clans thought less of so they will not give CASE in all areas just like they do not allow them other tech such as Omnipods.

[Thumper3]

zudukai, on 06 July 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

yes, the build is going to be very high risk, high reward, the mech can play it's huge peeking strength from 1000m, with JJ's to get the best positions to mitigate incoming fire.

Exactly, if you're worried about torso twisting in a brawl with a dual gauss Hunchie....you are playing it wrong. Speed, high weapon mounts, and JJs means this is the ultimate little sniper, range is your friend.


And to OP, of COURSE I'm going to run dual UAC20s....I mean, come on....that's just going to be FUN right there. I mean, that won't be my final loadout, but you know you have to run it that way at least for the first day. LOL

[Kelenas]

anyone running anything other than stock dual uac20s is doing it wrong.