17 replies to this topic

[Diemos]

So I was talking with my group mates about ideas we had about how to improve the game, or how to fix the argument of Quirks vs Clan mechs, etc etc.

My thought was simple, the game is called MECHWARRIOR, make the focus on your pilot, you're MECHWARRIOR!

What do I mean by this? I mean instead of unlocking Basic, Elite, and Master skills on each individual mech... you unlock skills and abilities as you level your MECHWARRIOR. So, for example, everyone starts the game and is given either a Jenner, Locust, or Raven to start their "career" as a mechwarrior. As they pilot the mech and complete matches and objectives, they gain experience as they do now. But instead of unlocking abilities per the mech, they go to a MUCH large tech tree that allows you to start specializing your mech warrior. Maybe you want to focus Ballistic Weapons, you have to move through the "ranks" before you unlocked proficiency in the specific Ballistic Weapon you have had your eye on.

You wouldn't necessarily be locked from using anything in the game, but you may incur a penalty to piloting and gunnery when using a mech or weapon system you don't have proficiency with.

This would add a little personal investment in how you play the game, as well as a little variety in that not Every meta-build would be played as opposed to focusing on the skills and abilities of the individual mechwarrior.

[Vellron2005]

Well the base idea of having a pilot-oriented skill tree is good, but the way you described it is very reminiscent of diablo or skyrim-like arcade games, and would not really fit the bill in MWO..

I personally like the fact that you don't have to "rise throught the ranks" to pilot an assault, but can have an Atlas as soon as you can afford it, and the current skill tree does have its merits.

Adding an additional skill tree would bring power creep, so not a good option. Changing the current tree would mean that all those founders could wipe their respective rear-armors with all the hours they put into mastering their 200+ mechs, so again, not good.

The solution to this would be to remove quirks entirely from the mechs as they are now, and then unlock them through pilot skills. of course, this would also mean the complete removal of negative quirks, becouse who would ever unlock that? This in turn, would mean a complete game-wide rebalancing of mechs, something PGI has planned to do anyway, so hey, maybe it would work..

[Joseph Mallan]

Diemos, on 09 July 2015 - 10:56 PM, said:

So I was talking with my group mates about ideas we had about how to improve the game, or how to fix the argument of Quirks vs Clan mechs, etc etc.

My thought was simple, the game is called MECHWARRIOR, make the focus on your pilot, you're MECHWARRIOR!

What do I mean by this? I mean instead of unlocking Basic, Elite, and Master skills on each individual mech... you unlock skills and abilities as you level your MECHWARRIOR. So, for example, everyone starts the game and is given either a Jenner, Locust, or Raven to start their "career" as a mechwarrior. As they pilot the mech and complete matches and objectives, they gain experience as they do now. But instead of unlocking abilities per the mech, they go to a MUCH large tech tree that allows you to start specializing your mech warrior. Maybe you want to focus Ballistic Weapons, you have to move through the "ranks" before you unlocked proficiency in the specific Ballistic Weapon you have had your eye on.

You wouldn't necessarily be locked from using anything in the game, but you may incur a penalty to piloting and gunnery when using a mech or weapon system you don't have proficiency with.

This would add a little personal investment in how you play the game, as well as a little variety in that not Every meta-build would be played as opposed to focusing on the skills and abilities of the individual mechwarrior.

Maybe a combination of What we have and your idea. There was supposed to be a more unique class tree But that has yet to appear. I would love to have an Atlas that is my "Wall" and another that is my "Hammer" instead of them all being the same as my Panther!

[Juodas Varnas]

Or just remove all the moronic skills this game has which do nothing but add to the monotonous grind.

Just because you're better at piloting a mech, it won't make it magically go 10% faster, turn 50% faster, bend its arms those extra few degrees.
That's not how skills work.

[Joseph Mallan]

Juodas Varnas, on 10 July 2015 - 02:01 AM, said:

Or just remove all the moronic skills this game has which do nothing but add to the monotonous grind.

Just because you're better at piloting a mech, it won't make it magically go 10% faster, turn 50% faster, bend its arms those extra few degrees.
That's not how skills work.

Funny Skill lets me hold tolerance a few microns tighter than someone less skilled. I can take a deeper cut cause I know what the machine I use can and can't do.

Its like that line from Down Periscope:

Quote

Lt. Comd. Dodge: Give me all you got, Howard!

Lt,. Howard, Chief Engineer: Aye, sir! This is what I live for, DBF!
[pulls out a bottle of whiskey, takes a swig, and pours the rest into the fuel tank]

Stepanek: What are you doing?

Lt,. Howard, Chief Engineer: Whiskey, thins down the mix. Gives us another 50 RPM's!

Knowing little tricks that work for your Mech that gets exceptional results.

[Juodas Varnas]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 July 2015 - 02:48 AM, said:

Funny Skill lets me hold tolerance a few microns tighter than someone less skilled. I can take a deeper cut cause I know what the machine I use can and can't do.

Its like that line from Down Periscope:
Knowing little tricks that work for your Mech that gets exceptional results.

A bottle of whiskey won't add 10% permanent speed to a fusion powered 100 ton giant mech.

I mean, i get the whole idea, but the difference between a Unbasiced mech and a Fully Mastered one, is f*cking astronomical.
No amount of "little tricks" will do that.

[Joseph Mallan]

Juodas Varnas, on 10 July 2015 - 02:50 AM, said:

A bottle of whiskey won't add 10% permanent speed to a fusion powered 100 ton giant mech.

I mean, i get the whole idea, but the difference between a Unbasiced mech and a Fully Mastered one, is f*cking astronomical.
No amount of "little tricks" will do that.

No but knowing which catalytic converter works best on My engine might. And I didn't know 10KpH on my Old faithful Atlas was considered astronomical!

[Vandul]

Well hello there...

[Soy]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 July 2015 - 02:48 AM, said:

Funny Skill lets me hold tolerance a few microns tighter than someone less skilled. I can take a deeper cut cause I know what the machine I use can and can't do.

Its like that line from Down Periscope:
Knowing little tricks that work for your Mech that gets exceptional results.

Love that movie. I also like the part where the chick XO moves aside so Grammar's char can make the right call. Cuz it's about experience in that moment when it boils down to gut check decisions.

Something the skill tree and lack of progression give no dap to.

To put it another way, what the **** exactly is the whiskey in MWO that makes speed tweak legit. -.-

I also like that other Grammar 'war' satire movie, Pentagon Wars. I really like the subplot in the movie about the evolution of the Bradley. Too many hands in the pot and it ends up being a complete piece of ****. Reminds me of how PGI pushes ****** mixed loadouts (think ghost heat) etc and ******** variants that can't really do much in any serious capacity, with roles never being defined.

Edited by Soy, 10 July 2015 - 05:19 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 July 2015 - 04:42 AM, said:

No but knowing which catalytic converter works best on My engine might. And I didn't know 10KpH on my Old faithful Atlas was considered astronomical!

Let's put it this way, mmkay?
Stock Atlas goes at 48.6 kph with a STD300 engine.
With Speed tweak the speed increases to 53.5 kph, which is equivalent to the STD330 engine, which is 6.5 tons HEAVIER.

Tell me. Could any amount of whiskey make a 25 ton engine as powerful as an engine that is 6.5 tons (more than 25%) heavier.

The only possible explanation for such increase in performance is:
SPACE MAGIC

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 10 July 2015 - 05:33 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Juodas Varnas, on 10 July 2015 - 05:33 AM, said:

Let's put it this way, mmkay?
Stock Atlas goes at 48.6 kph with a STD300 engine.
With Speed tweak the speed increases to 53.5 kph, which is equivalent to the STD330 engine, which is 6.5 tons HEAVIER.

Tell me. Could any amount of whiskey make a 25 ton engine as powerful as an engine that is 6.5 tons (more than 25%) heavier.

The only possible explanation for such increase in performance is:
SPACE MAGIC

Whiskey no... Something that "stimulates teh Myomar" to heightened performance... Yes. There is fluff that says with this one manufacture's Actuators properly installed, Mechs can do Gymnastics with a good enough pilot. Why can a Dragoon Wasp Pilot do a jump somersault and nobody else? Whats to say the Techs in the 31st century haven't figured out how to get that extra few ergs out of their machine.

Oh and thanks for the pentagon wars clip. That is what is missing from MW:O. Political red tape!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 10 July 2015 - 08:13 AM.

[Soy]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 July 2015 - 05:37 AM, said:

Whiskey no... Something that "stimulates teh Myomar" to heightened performance... Yes. There is fluff that says with this one manufacture's Actuators properly installed, Mechs allow Mechs to do Gymnastics with a good enough pilot. Why can a Dragoon Wasp Pilot do a jump somersault and nobody else? Whats to say the Techs in the 31st century haven't figured out how to get that extra few ergs out of their machine.

Best techs in BattleTech

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Battle_Magic

As far back as early beta I always wanted to make a clinic or consultation nexus for improving peoples mechs on a 1 to 1 basis. Like, what does the person really want to do, ok, lets make it work for them, in a custom way. Opposite of like, tier lists or whatnot where it indoctrinates people into hivemind thinking, thus killing their innocence and pushing them into being another mindless zombified meta chaser.

I have had different ideas for how to do this but suffice to say I'm way too lazy to work it out.

[Diemos]

My idea originally is to make it so that there is more variation in the type of loadouts you see on the battlefield.... for instance:

I like medium mechs, with medium lasers and SRM's and occasionally streaks. Occasionally I like to break out a Catapult K2 and fling some PPC's around, but generally stick to my Mediums - Hunchback 4SP and what not. As I level my "warrior" I take skills that improve the things I like to play with. I take on skills that boost medium laser performance, and SRM performance. I specialize in piloting medium mechs, so all medium mechs I pilot get the same "perks". I can further specialize in Hunchbacks if that is my preferred mech. I get to a point where I am an "EXPERT" hunchback pilot and still have points to spend, so I toss some points in say PPC cooling, or range, or fire rate or whatever, and I drop with my K2 when I want. There's not penalty for not having specialized in heavy piloting, but when I break out a random Medium I am 10% more "effective", and if I run a Hunchback, I am even MORE effective in that mech because it is my specialty.

Nothing stops me from going out and buying an Atlas and seeing how I like that. But I benefit more from sticking within my specialty.

I still think there should be some basic piloting skills that you have to earn with all weight classes before being able to pilot them on the "basic" level, A kind of "certification" system.

I think this way, you could remove the quirk system of IS mechs, Clan mechs could be what they are in lore - and it would all come down to the effects piloting skill and experience had and create a far more diverse battlefield. As you gain levels and experience, it would become a much deeper experience choosing which skills/perks to invest in. Do I generalize more? Or do I dive deep down the rabbit hole for some heroic level medium laser perks? Is there a benefit to either? Do you have to go all the way down a skill tree to be effective, or do you just need Skills A,C,D and H?

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Hell the f*** no. Please don't start new players in light mechs. You have any idea how frustrated new players get when their mech gets one shot? Oh and having to "unlock" a weapon or mech to make it useful? No... just no. Customization is at the core of mechwarrior games and artificial walls just piss off new players.

I could see having something like borderlands badass ranks. Pilots get small bonuses after getting so much XP that you build up over time. 1% bonus for the first rank perhaps and then have it gradually reduce to 0.1% and then 0.05% per rank and so on.

[Diemos]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 10 July 2015 - 08:12 AM, said:

Hell the f*** no. Please don't start new players in light mechs. You have any idea how frustrated new players get when their mech gets one shot? Oh and having to "unlock" a weapon or mech to make it useful? No... just no. Customization is at the core of mechwarrior games and artificial walls just piss off new players.

I could see having something like borderlands badass ranks. Pilots get small bonuses after getting so much XP that you build up over time. 1% bonus for the first rank perhaps and then have it gradually reduce to 0.1% and then 0.05% per rank and so on.

There would definitely be some balancing needed, but I'd say, til like level 10, all players are in lights. Then you can start to "specialize". I like the Borderlands idea too.

[Darlith]

Diemos, on 10 July 2015 - 08:42 AM, said:

There would definitely be some balancing needed, but I'd say, til like level 10, all players are in lights. Then you can start to "specialize". I like the Borderlands idea too.

Medium would be a much better place to start new players in this game. Lights take too much skill to make work in the types of matches we have, mediums are more of a generalist/workhorse mech similar to the heavies. Give them a solid medium mech to start with and let them unlock piloting skills instead of needing three of the same mech to get the most out of it and it might help the NPE significantly.

[TLBFestus]

Juodas Varnas, on 10 July 2015 - 02:50 AM, said:

A bottle of whiskey won't add 10% permanent speed to a fusion powered 100 ton giant mech.

Just how do you know this? Have you tested it on a fusion engine that you have laying about the house? Maybe Vodka would work better....less contaminants.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Vellron2005, on 10 July 2015 - 01:54 AM, said:

Well the base idea of having a pilot-oriented skill tree is good, but the way you described it is very reminiscent of diablo or skyrim-like arcade games, and would not really fit the bill in MWO..

I personally like the fact that you don't have to "rise throught the ranks" to pilot an assault, but can have an Atlas as soon as you can afford it, and the current skill tree does have its merits.

Adding an additional skill tree would bring power creep, so not a good option. Changing the current tree would mean that all those founders could wipe their respective rear-armors with all the hours they put into mastering their 200+ mechs, so again, not good.

The solution to this would be to remove quirks entirely from the mechs as they are now, and then unlock them through pilot skills. of course, this would also mean the complete removal of negative quirks, becouse who would ever unlock that? This in turn, would mean a complete game-wide rebalancing of mechs, something PGI has planned to do anyway, so hey, maybe it would work..

THen you give the players points equal to what would be thier progression in the tree....

If you have mastered 200 mechs, then im sure that would be more hten enough to have all the points you could max in the tree. No, I dont think we should be ableto pick everything in a agiven tree...but yeah, a new skill tree would be great.

As for starting in a light? meh...

Id rather we get to pick our mechs.