50 replies to this topic

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I could live with a fire and forget mechanic for LRMs, but that might mean sticking with the current blob hits for LRMs or maybe using the ssrm bones system for missiles to hit.

At any rate, If we can allow missiles to lock on without any bonuses (from Artemis/TAG and other gear/modules) against targets with ECM or under ECM umbrella that would be the best place to start to then see improvements and changes to LRMs.

So after that, as balancing factors, I imagine we could see more ripple fire patterns, extended lock on time, longer cooldowns (where I'd also consider having all LRM launchers have the same cooldown, say 4.5 to 5 seconds on each LRM 5 to 20) and keeping current LRM velocity, if we can get consistent locks for fire and forget LRMs.

Then the thing to consider is how would locks work when the shooter does not have LOS on target?

LRMs can be a deadly force multiplier under the right circumstances; even with how the various systems interact right now for LRMs, being basically feast or famine. So that will be important to reign in, by say, requiring TAG and/or NARC for those indirect locks, depending on how testing out a new or modified lock system works out.

---

So that's partly why I feel having a functioning TOW system (I actually like that connection, meaning having missiles follow the crosshair / reticle) would be a fine alternative to consider, for hitting with missiles in LOS of the shooter.

That way we could have the opportunity to aim at components and see boosts and/or adjustments to velocity, missile flight path and spread factors. Aside from altering their feast or famine functioning and not have boating be one of the few ways to get the most efficiency out of LRMs; it also places more control into the player's hands.

I'd at least like to test a TOW style system for SRMs and Streaks, where the main difference is the ammo saving Lock system for Streaks. And so with LRMs, if having a lock on fire and forget system is preferred, then lets iron out the variables so it can be viable and competitive in more situations than how they currently work.

---

And on another side note, MRMs would work like SRMs currently work, dead-fire missiles / rockets (like real-life Hydras I suppose) when fired.

[mark v92]

Praetor Knight, on 17 July 2015 - 05:20 PM, said:

And on another side note, MRMs would work like SRMs currently work, dead-fire missiles / rockets (like real-life Hydras I suppose) when fired.

I dunno, i would like to save TOW for MRM's. Make them feel distinct from other missile type.

I cant imagine people hitting anything on 600m with dead-fire MRM's unless they beef up the velocity alot (compared to srm's)

+ if they are dead-fire they will be even more inferior to any other pinpoint weapon of the same range

Raven with TOW MRM's in MWLL:

Edited by mark v92, 17 July 2015 - 05:47 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

mark v92, on 17 July 2015 - 05:35 PM, said:

I dunno, i would like to save TOW for MRM's. Make them feel distinct from other missile type.

I cant imagine people hitting anything on 600m with dead-fire MRM's unless they beef up the velocity alot (compared to srm's)

+ if they are dead-fire they will be even more infirior to any other pinpoint weapon of the same range

Direct Range translation is 450 M for MRMs (15 hexes times 30 M per Hex), so a velocity in the range of ~739 m/s like Hydra 70s would be sweet to see, and is about ~211 m/s slower than current AC/10s.

And these rock 240 missiles per ton at 1 damage each, without any ammo boosts. They might be a tad big (in terms of weight and crits) but a whooping 40 damage from an MRM-40 is nothing to sneeze at, especially if they see a good velocity above SRMs, which are at 300 m/s currently.

[Mondos]

Okay so there is two ends of the scale for LRM's

Large mechs with high number of tubes, normally this is indirect fire using someone else target lock.
I guess this is what everyone hates about LRM's feast or famine style.

Other end is Medium (maybe light), think Trenchbucket Kintaro with 20 to 30 tubes.
Now these guys normally get their own locks and fight in the 200mtr to 500mtr range to maximize each missile as limited ammo is an issue.

Dead fire and TOW would hurt one and help the other, great if you have missiles to waste. Horrible if you need the tracking to make each ton count.

I think the best way comes down to spread, Increase the spread for missiles fired without LOS and tighten the groups for Targets in LOS. Even when using a spotter volume firing LRM's shouldn't be amazing. On the other hand facing off with a stalker at 500mtrs with LOS should be dangerous.

[mark v92]

Praetor Knight, on 17 July 2015 - 05:45 PM, said:

Direct Range translation is 450 M for MRMs (15 hexes times 30 M per Hex), so a velocity in the range of ~739 m/s like Hydra 70s would be sweet to see, and is about ~211 m/s slower than current AC/10s.

And these rock 240 missiles per ton at 1 damage each, without any ammo boosts. They might be a tad big (in terms of weight and crits) but a whooping 40 damage from an MRM-40 is nothing to sneeze at, especially if they see a good velocity above SRMs, which are at 300 m/s currently.

Sarna says 21 hexes for lrms which is about 660m. MWO upped that to 1000m.
id expect MRM's get a range buff aswell (to still be the middle ground between srm's and lrm's)

and MRM 40 is pretty nice but i think you will be happy if half of that lands with dead-fire + spread

MWO's fast paced movement and turning allows for dodging them completely i think. you can do that with ppc's already

Edited by mark v92, 17 July 2015 - 05:59 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

mark v92, on 17 July 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

Sarna says 21 hexes for lrms which is about 660m. MWO upped that to 1000m.
id expect MRM's get a range buff aswell

Then lets add SRMs (and Streaks) to that list also! They received no boost in range.

---

And on a side note, I've brain stormed how MWO might be if instead of sticking to 30 M per Hex, if that was doubled to 60 M? It certainly changes various dynamics between weapons, and provides more realistic ranges across the board (with the Short, Medium and Long breakdowns), which are also more accuracy and precision ratings, over being true max effective ranges.

Some other goodies that some might be interested in:
A real-life parallel to SRMs seem to be SRAWs
while real-life parallels to LRMs seem to be Javelins

In terms of ranges, velocities, size and the fact that lore has infantry and Battle Armor units, including Elementals, being able to fire SRMs and LRMs.

[Imperius]

If anyone in this thread said missiles are over powered or good as is please never post on the forums again.

[RedDevil]

LRMs should be just as powerful as LBX weapons. So yes, they are currently too powerful, which is why ECM was over implemented. Had LRMs been introduced as direct fire weapon first, none of this mess would have happened.

Edited by RedDevil, 17 July 2015 - 07:48 PM.

[Brizna]

Praetor Knight, on 17 July 2015 - 05:20 PM, said:

Snip.

Yeah pretty much, my suggestion to remove locking for regular LRMs might work but it is unnecessary for the first part of the suggestion: TOW like guidance.

Also maybe TOW-like guidance isn't the best solution but ECM needs to stop being a hard counter for LRMs. But there are other ways to achieve this like simply removing radar invisibility from ECM.

[Hotthedd]

WarHippy, on 17 July 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

None of which short of truly ludicrous stat buffs would allow them to be on an even playing field to any other weapon in the game. ACs would still be faster and have less spread, lasers would still be better in almost all scenarios due to their hit scan nature, and gauss would continue to dominate. Having to stand in the open and hold the target reticle on target for the missiles to hit is going to get you killed every time by all of the other weapons that are significantly better in line of sight fighting.

LRMs are already not on an even playing field. They are entirely different due to the lock-on mechanic. A mechanic which forced PGI to make ECM into a magic jesus box. ACs are heavier. Lasers are better, but not due to being hitscan (hitscan is worse than PPFLD, and arguably worse than spread damage) Lasers are better due to their range and speed. Gauss Rifles have their own drawbacks. You would not need to have face time with your target to keep the reticle on him, btw. If you have a dorito (or even a good guess) the missiles should fly in the direction of the reticle.d. Like has been said, increasing missile speed would minimize face time, bringing LRMs closer in line with lasers and ballistics.

WarHippy, on 17 July 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

Based off of the OPs suggestions you would need to have someone spotting for you to fire indirectly which outside of an organized team you are rarely if ever going to have that assistance. What you describe would have the shooter blindly firing missiles and using the "follows reticle" feature to get over hills and other obstacles. The chance of you actually hitting someone let alone it being effective enough to be an area-denial weapon is laughably small.

Actually it would be quite easy with enough situational awareness, and 100 times better than target lock.

WarHippy, on 17 July 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

Again this means you are going to be standing in the open unable to torso twist to avoid damage coming from your target who wasn't dumb enough to use LRMs. On paper it seems like a neat idea, but in reality it is a really crappy idea.

Again, it can be done from behind cover once missiles are launched. You don't have to stand still. To be good at it would require some practice, instead of the computer doing the work.

Thunder Child, on 17 July 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

Just a question regarding the "Chase the Crosshair" Mechanic.... would this allow me to fire them up over a hill, and then once they clear the hill, drop them in a sharp 90° turn so they come straight down on top of whoever is behind said hill? If so, sign me up. However, if it causes them to do some freaking dimension distorting turns to come flying back into the hill that is 30m in front of me then NO, Very Bad Idea.

Either way, if you remove the Lock ability, they need to fly about twice as fast, and with Artemis / TAG / NARC, cluster like crazy on whichever component you've painted.

Exactly this.

[Elizander]

Just give lrms a toggle to dumbfire straight ahead in a straight line with a wider spread than SRMS.