24 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Seriously its a terrible idea and solves nothing.

Organized groups will just take more ECM mechs to get the same amount of ECM coverage as before.

Mech variety will be reduced even further because of the necessity to take more ECM mechs to retain coverage. And ECM will continuing being as problematic as it always was.


OH NOES ECM RADIUS IS HALVED FROM 180M TO 90M. BETTER BRING MOAR HELLBRINGERS LOLOL. PGI PLS.



Can you just fix ECM properly? It shouldnt be granting any kindve stealth at all. Other mechwarrior games and battletech handled stealth much better with passive sensors and null signature system. Stealth should come with a downside. It should never be practically free.

And yes there are ways to balance LRMs that dont involve ridiculous hard counters like ECM. Indirect LRMs should get crippling tracking/spread penalties unless the target is tagged/narcd. Indirect LRMs shouldnt be nearly as accurate as they are.

In battletech if you have a light mech as your indirect spotter, and its running full speed, you get a massive penalty to hit (+2 for spotter running and +1 for indirect, for a total of +3 penalty). Indirect LRMs werent that accurate in battletech and they shouldnt be that accurate in MWO.

LRMs also dont necessarily need to be a damage weapon. LRMs could be turned into more of a utility weapon. That could be done by introducing alternate ammo types like Thunder LRMs (drops mines at point of impact) and Swarm LRMs (do less direct damage but have a large AOE, and could also be used to clear mines). That would add area denial to the game and help counter deathballs.

[Lootee]

Pretty much my thoughts on the continuing ECM trainwreck too.

Bring moar ECM, you said it mang. Nobody fraks with the Jesusbox.

[TyphonCh]

Khobai, on 17 July 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

Can you just fix ECM properly?

Nope. Because adjusting values is easier

[Yosharian]

So they're halving ECM bubble radius again?

When was this announced, I didn't see it.

[MrJeffers]

Yosharian, on 17 July 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

So they're halving ECM bubble radius again?

When was this announced, I didn't see it.

It was announced on Tuesday
http://mwomercs.com/...-change-to-ecm/

[1453 R]

I always love these threads.

"Get rid of stealth in MWO! ECM should do nothing but counter advanced electronics, like it did in TT!"
Cool story, brah. Are you aware that currently 'advanced electronics' in MWO are no such thing, and friggin' nobody takes them? Ever? If Active Probes didn't counteract ECM, you'd never see an active probe in MWO again, Artemis is a dead letter, and again, nobody takes TAG save to counter ECM. We don't even have C3 to counter! And if you'll recall, the G-ECM system could also confuse targeting via generating sensor ghosts. Give me the option to switch my ECM into "generate half a dozen red Doritos that don't actually exist" mode, give me the 180m 360-degree detection radius on active probes, and we'll talk about G-ECM being restricted to its canonical EW-cancelling functionality.

"Indirect-fire LRMs don't need to be accurate/deal damage/work!"
Sweet. Then make them directly competitive with equivalent weight of direct-fire weaponry. If you want indirect fire to be essentially removed from the game, as all these posts keep going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about, then ensure that somebody beating you down with two LRM-20s in a direct fight is no less intimidating than someone beating you down with twenty tons of autocannon, or twenty tons of energy weapon. Indirect fire capability is what LRM systems currently get to use because they are frickin' garbage in a direct firefight. You can't get rid of one without working on the other. And as for this total horsep!ss nonsense of LRMs being a "utility weapon" instead of a damaging one? Suuuuuuuuure, broski. Pull the other one. Would you devote ten tons of launcher, five tons of ammo, and an entire torso's worth of crit slots to 'utility weapons'? People in this game don't even spend the one ton/one crit for an active probe for 'utility' sake! They barely find room for a TC1! If you want LRMs pulled from the game, at least have the stones to say so openly, instead of insulting people with this 'utility weapon' garbage.

"If ECM is still good, people will just bring more of it! The only way to fix ECM is to make it bad, so that way I don't have to put up with it anymore!"
Do you people even listen to yourselves when you type this crap up? Sure, give us null-sig/stealth armor - so we can have complete immunity to electronic detection. No red Doritos for you, ever. Can't cancel my Null-Sig, can't cancel my stealth armor. No Active Probing for jOO. Want paperdoll info on me? Too bad! Want to know where I am without seeing me? Too bad! Let's go in for the Chameleon LPS while we're at it, go full-up Predator style in here! Invisible 'Mechs sound like a great way to balance the raw weapon tonnage/damage advantages of Clan tech - you Spheroids can have SA and the CLPS, plan all sorts of invisible-'Mech ambushes.

Except...oh, wait. Yeah. I forgot - anything that isn't AC/20 facehug derpfests is Against The Spirit And Honor of MWO. Any sort of actual Information Warfare, in which I might maybe possibly potentially be able to gain access to more information than you/limit your access to information on me, is a dirty horrible scumbaggish douchecheat, and never mind that "INFORMATION WARFARE" was supposed to be a core pillar of MWO, once upon a long, long time ago.

Silly me, I forgot. No brains or strategy desired in MWO. My bad. Carry on.

[Appogee]

You felt your post was too novel, original and outstanding to go in the actual ECM feedback thread?

Then again, I don't suppose it matters; history suggests Paul won't read either of them.

Edited by Appogee, 17 July 2015 - 09:15 AM.

[JC Daxion]

ECM should be single mech... for those lore fans that means dropping guardian and just having an ECM equiped, Though they could also help fix this by making you need heavier sensors to use it, and taking up more crit space.. You have it, you are effecting your build by a decent amount compared to not.


ECM should stop working once you get to half speed...

[Yosharian]

MrJeffers, on 17 July 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

It was announced on Tuesday
http://mwomercs.com/...-change-to-ecm/

Yikes. Lermageddon incoming.

[Gas Guzzler]

1453 R, on 17 July 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Except...oh, wait. Yeah. I forgot - anything that isn't AC/20 facehug derpfests is Against The Spirit And Honor of MWO. Any sort of actual Information Warfare, in which I might maybe possibly potentially be able to gain access to more information than you/limit your access to information on me, is a dirty horrible scumbaggish douchecheat, and never mind that "INFORMATION WARFARE" was supposed to be a core pillar of MWO, once upon a long, long time ago.

Silly me, I forgot. No brains or strategy desired in MWO. My bad. Carry on.

Dontcha know? Anything other than a facehugging brawl is a no-skill dirty cheap tactic. Sniping should be nerfed in to the ground, the brawlers are the MechWarriors with real skills. Oh, the LRM guys too. Those guys have it real rough, we should make it easier on them too so their super skills can be brought to light.

[Khobai]

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"Get rid of stealth in MWO! ECM should do nothing but counter advanced electronics, like it did in TT!"

Except it would still double lock-on time for nearby allies and prevent missiles from locking on inside its radius. That is all 1.5 tons should be worth.

Quote

"Indirect-fire LRMs don't need to be accurate/deal damage/work!"

Obviously you have the reading comprehension of a monkey. My post specifically addresses how LRMs can be made useful by making them utility weapons rather than pure damage weapons. By giving LRMs access to different ammo types you can make them a swiss army knife weapon that can fulfill multiple roles ranging from indirect damage, area denial via mines/aoe damage, and minefield clearing.

Quote

"If ECM is still good, people will just bring more of it! The only way to fix ECM is to make it bad, so that way I don't have to put up with it anymore!"

I never said it should be bad. Just that its effects should be proportional to its tonnage. It only weighs 1.5 tons. 1.5 tons should not buy you team-wide stealth.

[Scratx]

My only big problem with the incoming ECM nerf is that it still doesn't address the root issues behind why ECM is OP for a 1t-1.5t piece of kit.

If it also comes with a nerf to BAP range then it actually also buffs the ECM as a personal stealth because it means people can't counter the ECM with BAP to get target locks unless they're too close to already use IS LRMs and already very deep in SSRM range. So it becomes less of a team-oriented piece of kit and becomes more of a personal stealth generator.

Great, PGI, make it a more ego-centric piece of kit. That'll show 'em folks who want MWO to be a team game!

[DAYLEET]

Khobai, on 17 July 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

OH NOES ECM RADIUS IS HALVED FROM 180M TO 90M. BETTER BRING MOAR HELLBRINGERS LOLOL. PGI PLS.

Can they take more HBR than they do now? I did some CW yesterday, i can say, at any given time, 50% of all their mech on the battlefield was a hbr with ecm. They would push and suicide the other mechs but never the hbr, why is that?

Reducing ecm is a good step, i can understand why it makes people uneasy.

[Khobai]

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You felt your post was too novel, original and outstanding to go in the actual ECM feedback thread?

who says I didnt post there too?

will it have an effect? probably not. but you cant win the lottery if you dont buy a ticket.

theres zero chance of paul reading a post that doesnt exist. theres a one in billion chance of him reading one that does exist.

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Can they take more HBR than they do now?

They can take 75%-100% hellbringers. Reducing ecm radius is just reducing mech variety by forcing teams to take more ECM to retain the same surface area of coverage.

Edited by Khobai, 17 July 2015 - 09:42 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

At this point, I'm just going to say: Let's wait and see.

I didn't expect them to ever touch ECM. People have been pointing out its flaws since 2013 and PGI has just stared at the feedback in total silence. Now they're finally doing something. Let's see how it turns out.

[DAYLEET]

Khobai, on 17 July 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

Reducing ecm radius is just reducing mech variety by forcing teams to take more ECM to retain the same surface area of coverage.

Shouldnt complete ecm coverage of a team come with a heavy cost(ahah get it)? Ill take on the 100% hbr cw in the comming days and report back.

[Scratx]

Alistair Winter, on 17 July 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

At this point, I'm just going to say: Let's wait and see.

I didn't expect them to ever touch ECM. People have been pointing out its flaws since 2013 and PGI has just stared at the feedback in total silence. Now they're finally doing something. Let's see how it turns out.

Largely my attitude, though I am certainly going to be pleasantly surprised if it actually works out well.

[Gas Guzzler]

The bright side, is if you have 100% Hellbringers in CW you will have to fight less SCRs, TBRs, and EBJs.

[1453 R]

Ook ook.

The problem, Khobai, is that stupid people are seeing this change and, SOMEHOW, assuming that it is the only change to be made. Did not Paul state that this is mostly a groundwork change designed to make way for enhanced Information Warfare, adjustments to role warfare, and a ground-up overhaul of the quirks system?

Perhaps I'm sick of people crying wolf over "LURMPOCALYPSE THE RECKONING OH NOOOOO", or coming up with all kinds of ways to ensure that ECM is butchered and any sort of stealth, misdirection, or in fact information control of any sort is ripped in great, bloody, unsalvageable chunks from Information Warfare.

And yes - I am, in fact, going to call you out on assuming that people would be content to devote their primary armaments to weapons which do not harm their enemies. On top of that not being much fun, you're also essentially eliminating LRM machines' ability to earn C-bills by removing their ability to deal damage to their enemies, meaning your 'utility swiss-army support' 'Mechs can't even afford to restock their consumables after spending a match being all weird and junk, trying to drop minefields in their enemies' paths and tickle their feetsies instead of hammering them with rocket-driven explosives.

Would you pilot an LRM platform incapable of harming its enemies? Because I wouldn't.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

PGI is just out of clue and is going on the most pain less route as usually. They are so afraid of work.
Yeah codding is little too hard for them, just changing some xml stats is always the case with PGI.