57 replies to this topic

[kesmai]

Thanx for the work.
Appreciated PGI.

[Zfailboat]

Wronka, on 23 July 2015 - 05:28 AM, said:

Whats even more interesting about those damage numbers is this:
Total IS participants: 5,449
Total Clan participants: 4,419
The IS had over 20% more players. IS managed less than 1% more damage then the clans, AND killed 10% less mechs. WOW!

Participant numbers dont matter, as the game is still 12 on 12 x 4 mechs each.

If you ghost drop you do not dmg and kill no mechs.

So the only times damage was done was in matches against the enemy - so you would hope that damage was relatively even.

As I mentioned - the problem is IS forced to use XL Engines to meet the tonnage limits - XL engines on lights and mediums = more vulnerability. which is why the damage to kill is lower to kill IS rather than clan.

Its the only thing creating imbalance in this game. people can talk about quirks - burn times etc etc - damage was practically identical. what wasn't was the amount of damage clans needed to apply to kill IS mechs on average due to the engine.

[Richard Hazen]

Proud of my unit The Desert Rats who with only 8 people qualifying for it achieved 4th place.

[QueenBlade]

Wronka, on 23 July 2015 - 05:28 AM, said:

Whats even more interesting about those damage numbers is this:
Total IS participants: 5,449
Total Clan participants: 4,419
The IS had over 20% more players. IS managed less than 1% more damage then the clans, AND killed 10% less mechs. WOW!

5449 out of 9868 is 55%.
4419 out of 9868 is 45%.

10% more players.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

QueenBlade, on 23 July 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

5449 out of 9868 is 55%.
4419 out of 9868 is 45%.

10% more players.

Not to mention that no comparison is made of how many games played per player. If each Clan player played 10% more games on average than each IS player, things are even.

[Wintersdark]

White Bear 84, on 22 July 2015 - 05:10 PM, said:

The clan list has such variety. Hellbringers and Stormcrows.. ..what a surprise.

Well, at least it's not all Timberwolves anymore.

[Wintersdark]

QueenBlade, on 23 July 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

5449 out of 9868 is 55%.
4419 out of 9868 is 45%.

10% more players.

23% more players. Relative percentages as you're showing don't mean what you're saying they do.

5449 is 1030 players more than the Clans have at 4419. 1030 is 23.3% of 4419. Thus, the IS had 23.3% more players than clans.

IS had 55% of the total players, and clans had 45% of the total players, but that doesn't mean that IS has 10% more players.

So, the IS had 10% more of the total players, but 23% more players than the clans. Do you understand the difference?

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 23 July 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

Well, at least it's not all Timberwolves anymore.

To be fair, the dropdecks have increased in favor of the Hellbringer over the Timberwolf (CW-wise, it's far easier to field 2 Hellbringers than 2 Timberwolves to boot), but that still hasn't stopped Stormcrow usage.

It only shifted to the most logical next-in-line mech.

The difference is the the Thunderbolt has like two roles, and is still needed in a dropdeck (it's more or less mandatory in a solid dropdeck) but it's just one variant which says a bit about the other variants and to some extent, the variant itself.

It still says more about balance though as there's no real alternative by design.

[QueenBlade]

if anything you probably want to compare tonnage rather than specific mechs.

65 ton IS mechs vs 65 ton Clan mechs.

Granted I used 2 TBR, 1 HBR, 1 MLX for my drop deck. But I'm sure many others used HBRs and EBJs to fill their decks with. While many used 3 TDRs and a 35-45 ton mech for the IS.

[Wintersdark]

Deathlike, on 23 July 2015 - 06:15 PM, said:

To be fair, the dropdecks have increased in favor of the Hellbringer over the Timberwolf (CW-wise, it's far easier to field 2 Hellbringers than 2 Timberwolves to boot), but that still hasn't stopped Stormcrow usage.

It only shifted to the most logical next-in-line mech.

The difference is the the Thunderbolt has like two roles, and is still needed in a dropdeck (it's more or less mandatory in a solid dropdeck) but it's just one variant which says a bit about the other variants and to some extent, the variant itself.

It still says more about balance though as there's no real alternative by design.

Yeah. *sighs*


I really wish they'd get rid of the "YOU MUST HAVE 4" thing.

[White Bear 84]

Wintersdark, on 23 July 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

Well, at least it's not all Timberwolves anymore.

Deathlike, on 23 July 2015 - 06:15 PM, said:

It only shifted to the most logical next-in-line mech.

The difference is the the Thunderbolt has like two roles, and is still needed in a dropdeck (it's more or less mandatory in a solid dropdeck) but it's just one variant which says a bit about the other variants and to some extent, the variant itself.

It still says more about balance though as there's no real alternative by design.

Well I would be interested to see how the Shadowcat fits in now - does this render the SCR less effective since it has ECM, MASC and JJ; all of which the SCR lacks.. ..or does the use of tonnage for these items limit the SHC in its viability vs the SCR in CW.

I would think the case is the first example..

It is evident that many decks will be replaced by the AC as well, since it is just an insanely effective clan light.

Alternatively could it lead to more diversity as we see a mix of SCR's and SHC's given they are both highly effective mechs...

[Wintersdark]

White Bear 84, on 23 July 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

Well I would be interested to see how the Shadowcat fits in now - does this render the SCR less effective since it has ECM, MASC and JJ; all of which the SCR lacks.. ..or does the use of tonnage for these items limit the SHC in its viability vs the SCR in CW.

I would think the case is the first example..

It is evident that many decks will be replaced by the AC as well, since it is just an insanely effective clan light.

Alternatively could it lead to more diversity as we see a mix of SCR's and SHC's given they are both highly effective mechs...

No.

MASC is not worthless, but REALLY not very good on the SHC. It's not nearly as good as the MASC on the Executioner. It adds trivial speed, and the accel buff is far less important on a quick mech (and is itself a much smaller buff as well).

Jump jets are awesome on the SHC, but they don't add a lot of real tangible value for their cost. There's not a lot of gain in being that good of a jumper; certainly not enough to offset the 3 ton cost on the already tonnage starved platform. ECM is good, but the overall loadout options on the SHC are puny compared to the SCR.

You're not going to see many SHC's in competitive decks. It's low tier 2/tier 3 at best.

[Deathlike]

QueenBlade, on 23 July 2015 - 06:21 PM, said:

if anything you probably want to compare tonnage rather than specific mechs.

65 ton IS mechs vs 65 ton Clan mechs.

Granted I used 2 TBR, 1 HBR, 1 MLX for my drop deck. But I'm sure many others used HBRs and EBJs to fill their decks with. While many used 3 TDRs and a 35-45 ton mech for the IS.

I don't think everyone is running tri-Thunderbolt-5SS decks. It's a bad idea honestly. It doesn't quite have the versatility and builds as other Clan mechs (fixed hardpoints will do that to a mech) and trying to get out of a niche isn't a good idea.

I never really had problems taking them out when playing as Clans though, so I assume people not doing the right things to counter them generally speaking.

[QueenBlade]

Doesn't have to be 5SS

[Duke Nedo]

Win/loss would be more interesting.

[Lily from animove]

Zfailboat, on 23 July 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:

Participant numbers dont matter, as the game is still 12 on 12 x 4 mechs each.

who said they ghostdropped?

the number vs number statistics show not much here except how many players per faction had interest in the event.

it could be that a 12 man of clans played 2x vs 2 different IS 12 mans. so suddenly you have IS 24, clan 12: yet no ghost drops.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Lily from animove, on 27 July 2015 - 04:31 AM, said:

who said they ghostdropped?

the number vs number statistics show not much here except how many players per faction had interest in the event.

it could be that a 12 man of clans played 2x vs 2 different IS 12 mans. so suddenly you have IS 24, clan 12: yet no ghost drops.

That.

[Gorgo7]

What the stats show i that the Clan are rightly OP.

The best thing to do in this instance is to reduce the Number of mechs the clan may take into CW to three and to have a corresponding decrease in tonnage.

Each player in CW IS should bring 4 with a limit of 240 or so and the Clan should bring 3 with a limit of 180 or so.

The clan would have the opportunity for much better C-Bills and the IS would be able to hold the line or at least have a better fighting chance.



Worth trying for six months or so.