35 replies to this topic

[Comfy Wedgie]

Good Day all,

I figured that this was the place to ask questions without criticism, I hope it is.

My questions are simple, why do my assault mechs feel incredibly weak? I have learnt to shield with the arm but it just seems to me that I am ripped apart by lights or even mediums with ease and I just don't know what to do.

Because it was on sale I bought the Highlander hero mech today and I hate it and really wish I could get my money back. I can do so much better with my Timber Wolf or even a Cataphract.

It just seems to me that an assault mech should have the advantage of being able to at least take some damage but I truly can't. I'm incredibly slow in it and can't react and yet seem to be taken down as easily as if I was in a heavy or a medium.

And that said, I have hit mediums with everything, front on. No arms, no arm shielding and they have hit me back, knocked me to 80% or lower, I hit them again, get hit again and I am dead.

This just seems ridiculous and unfair to me. In the end, people who actually pay into this game are supporting it far more than the casual gamers grinding for cbills and yet I feel I am getting no reward for the money I'm paying in. And no, the "CBILL" bonus means little to me. So what, I can buy more weak mechs that are useless to me? I paid for a Hero mech and got a Zero mech.

I am currently saving $150 for one of the clan mech packs, this money could buy me numerous single player games but I thought I would invest in this game and that the variety of mechs might be more fun and interesting for me. But after this experience with the Highlander I am really considering NOT purchasing the pack because it will mimic the immense disappointment I am feeling today.

Well, my question took a turn. I guess my real question is how I can get some enjoyment out of the money I have paid for a Hero mech that is supposed to be tough that isn't. I thought as an assault I could get in and tank, which might actually be fun because the constant long range snipe fest that many matches turn into are incredibly boring...

[Wintersdark]

Sadly Highlanders aren't very good mechs right now.

Assaults in general are harder to play than heavies and Mediums, and are easier only than lights.

The highlander suffers more than most though because it cannot pack a particularly impressive loadouts, and it's defining feature (jump jets) isn't very great as jump jets on big mechs are very lacklustre.

[Comfy Wedgie]

What does the dev team have to say or do about this then? Is this really how I should expect to be treated. I am trying to support them financially and yet this purchase is making me not want to pay for anything again.

If I could get a refund on this I'd be perfectly happy, but as it stands now, more so after your reply, I feel like I have been swindled / robbed...

[Maver0ick]

Hero mechs are advertised as having 30% Cbill bonus + unique camo + uniuqe geometry. The developers have specifically said that they are trying to avoid making Hero mechs better than Cbill mechs. Assault mechs have a different play style to heavies such as the Timberwolf. Although they can tank better than others, you have to do it at the right opportunity.

[Dino Might]

Comfy Wedgie, on 23 July 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

What does the dev team have to say or do about this then? Is this really how I should expect to be treated. I am trying to support them financially and yet this purchase is making me not want to pay for anything again.

If I could get a refund on this I'd be perfectly happy, but as it stands now, more so after your reply, I feel like I have been swindled / robbed...

You have not been swindled because you got exactly what was advertised with knowledge available beforehand. While I understand your dissatisfaction, don't try to levy the responsibility of your decision entirely on another party. Being new, it's completely understandable if you made a choice that you regretted, and I'd hope and even expect that PGI would allow you a refund if you asked them in the appropriate channels (support@mwomercs.com) by explaining to them your situation without trying to point fingers or make excuses.

If you want to try and make the mech work, there are definitely ways to do so, and many who would be happy to help. Part of the challenge is building up sufficient experience in that chassis to understand what works well and what does not.

Whether you are using a "good" build or not matters little in the beginning. I could give you my $30M cbill overpowered Locust, and you'd probably be terrible with it right now, because you haven't played it enough. As you play more with that mech, you will get better with it. The learning curve is steep, but that's part of what makes it fun - the challenge. The Highlander plays significantly differently than the Timber Wolf. Do not expect to perform the same way in each.

[The Basilisk]

For refunds don't complain at forums, just write to support.

Regarding Assaults.....yea Assaults are very difficult to master and you picked one of the worst chassis atm.

Advice for not getting eaten is ... yea bad pun ... don't assault.
Stay with the blob.
Try not to get close and personal until you enemy is either a weaker assault or already dammaged or crippeled.
As the game is atm, most IS assaults are either completely lackluster or nothing more than big sluggish weapons platforms.
Your tonns of armor are no help since you are so big and slow your enemys can perfectly concentrate their fire.
Since you can't realy get away, once you started a fight you better be sure to finish an enemy in a few salvos.
So pinpoint massive dammage and knowing where it will hurt your enemy the most will be your friends.

Try this: Metal
Use your AC5 to tag some targets and for potshots in early game. When things got roling use the shortrange weapons in your left side to finish already bleeding pray and the ACs instead of the lasers if you get too hot.

Or this: Metal2
Try using your jets to be more mobile and keep your distance if possible. Then engage when enemy is already engaged or has just not noticed you. Do not get into prolonged fights.

Last: shieldside
The Idea is to optimice a shieldside concept.
Use the tripple Lpulse and ASRM6 for hard hits and your empty side to recept hits.

Edited by The Basilisk, 23 July 2015 - 01:18 PM.

[Comfy Wedgie]

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You have not been swindled because you got exactly what was advertised with knowledge available beforehand. While I understand your dissatisfaction, don't try to levy the responsibility of your decision entirely on another party. Being new, it's completely understandable if you made a choice that you regretted, and I'd hope and even expect that PGI would allow you a refund if you asked them in the appropriate channels (support@mwomercs.com) by explaining to them your situation without trying to point fingers or make excuses.

Your starting your reply with "you have not been swindled" was completely unnecessary. I stated that I "feel like I have been swindled". I could have easily, and with as much veracity said that I feel like a cheese Danish.

Your lecturing me on something that I stated in the abstract was nothing more than passively aggressive. Likewise, your comment "pointing fingers and making excuses". Please. I dared to express emotional discontent in a written forum about a video game, your exaggerating it to try and shame me is a tactic I can see through.

Other than that I shall investigate the avenue that you pointed out for a refund.

Thank you for your input.

Edited by Comfy Wedgie, 23 July 2015 - 12:58 PM.

[Comfy Wedgie]

Thank you for everyone's input so far. I have contacted support to ask for a refund.

[Dino Might]

Comfy,

I think you inferred a derogatory tone in my post, and it was not intended. My apologies that it came out that way.

I was trying to give you a bit of advice that I should have stated more clearly. If you email PGI with a statement about how you feel swindled, I do not expect them to help you much, because they will feel as though you are placing blame entirely on them, and I don't think that's a fair assessment.

If that statement is purely abstract and not actually what you think, then why bother writing it? Why put something entirely irrelevant to the discussion in? I can tell you, many people will read your post and infer what I did. If you want to consider it a lecture, fine, but I'm just trying to help you out. I'm not trying to shame you. If emotional reactions are a cause for shame, then I might as well go commit seppuku right now. The issue lies in what you put down in writing, after you have had time to consider those emotions. People will tend to assume that written language is more in line with your thinking than just with your emotional responses.

Best of luck. I hope they get you a refund if you choose to go that route. The Heavy Metal is the only truly pink mech, though. I think it's worth it just for that.

Edited by Dino Might, 23 July 2015 - 01:00 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Comfy Wedgie, on 23 July 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

Good Day all,

I figured that this was the place to ask questions without criticism, I hope it is.

it is, the people who frequent new player help are the most helpful and non judgmental people on these forums

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My questions are simple, why do my assault mechs feel incredibly weak? I have learnt to shield with the arm but it just seems to me that I am ripped apart by lights or even mediums with ease and I just don't know what to do.

the way the game is balances each weight class is strongest against the one below it, in the case of Assualts they are strongest against Heavies, evenly matched against Mediums and outmatched by lights, because the Assault Mechs immense firepower is useless if it cannot hit the Light Mech, however if you do there is a good chance you will cripple it with one or two hits, where as the Light Mech will attack you when you cannot shoot back or stand little chance of hitting it, it may take it 10-20 seconds to get through your armor, so if you are engaging Light Mechs ask your team for help,, hold down Caps Lock to speak and say something along the lines of "I need help with a Firestarter in Bravo 4"

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Because it was on sale I bought the Highlander hero mech today and I hate it and really wish I could get my money back. I can do so much better with my Timber Wolf or even a Cataphract.

It just seems to me that an assault mech should have the advantage of being able to at least take some damage but I truly can't. I'm incredibly slow in it and can't react and yet seem to be taken down as easily as if I was in a heavy or a medium.

And that said, I have hit mediums with everything, front on. No arms, no arm shielding and they have hit me back, knocked me to 80% or lower, I hit them again, get hit again and I am dead.

This just seems ridiculous and unfair to me. In the end, people who actually pay into this game are supporting it far more than the casual gamers grinding for cbills and yet I feel I am getting no reward for the money I'm paying in. And no, the "CBILL" bonus means little to me. So what, I can buy more weak mechs that are useless to me? I paid for a Hero mech and got a Zero mech.

regardless of how much firepower and armor you have if the entire enemy team is focus firing you your Mech will go down in a few seconds, a Timber Wolf may be able to get out of trouble in that time, a Highlander cannot, many people my self included are not good in assaults, I need to be moving 80+ to do well in a Mech

Quote

I am currently saving $150 for one of the clan mech packs, this money could buy me numerous single player games but I thought I would invest in this game and that the variety of mechs might be more fun and interesting for me. But after this experience with the Highlander I am really considering NOT purchasing the pack because it will mimic the immense disappointment I am feeling today.

Well, my question took a turn. I guess my real question is how I can get some enjoyment out of the money I have paid for a Hero mech that is supposed to be tough that isn't. I thought as an assault I could get in and tank, which might actually be fun because the constant long range snipe fest that many matches turn into are incredibly boring...

assault Mechs are tough to kill, but you have to know how to play them, if you have the aptitude for assaults then great, if not then practice may give you it, but no Mech can charge 3 enemy Mechs head on and expect to win, and some , some Nova, Hunchback, Wolverine, Griffin and Stormcrow builds can have similar firepower to you, it is just that they will overheat after 2-3 shots while you can keep firing much longer.

this game is not in any way pay to win, it is pay for convenience, cosmetics and early access, the Hero Mechs are not usualy superior to the standard variants and are often inferior to at least one, they give an earnings boost, a unique cammo and slightly different hard point layout, nothing more.

before spending any more money I suggest referring back to New Player help and asking for advise, tell us what you are thinking about buying with likes and dislikes about other Mechs, someone will be able ot offer you some advise.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 23 July 2015 - 01:11 PM.

[Dino Might]

Rogue Jedi, on 23 July 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

it is, the people who frequent new player help are the most helpful and non judgmental people on these forums

+1. Seriously. Ask us. We will help. Find me online and team up with me if you want any recommendations on something or if you just want someone to play with. You can drop in on the na1.mech-connect.net teamspeak and find me most nights.

[Comfy Wedgie]

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I think you inferred a derogatory tone in my post, and it was not intended. My apologies that it came out that way.

Thank you for your explanation, it came through as very condescending; but as you explained, that was not your intention.

Quote

If that statement is purely abstract and not actually what you think, then why bother writing it?

One can "feel" cheated (or swindled) without having been "legally" cheated. If it helps, consider it like a metaphor. I was explaining how I felt about the purchase. I invested money into a game, I have invested in this game before and the results were nowhere near as abysmal as what they were from the purchase of the highlander.

As for why bother writing it, it's a public forum, I went with the flow of my thoughts and that was to communicate how I felt about the purchase. And even at a discounted price this mech cost over $20. That, to me, is significant money to put into a video game for a one-off virtual purchase. When it fails to deliver, or in my case, diminishes my enjoyment of the game it upsets me and that, ultimately was the reason why I expressed my feelings. Hopefully I have adequately explained why I made the statement in my previous posts.

Quote

Why put something entirely irrelevant to the discussion in?

I can concede that my feelings are irrelevant to you but at the time, in the heat of typing I decided to describe how I felt about the situation. That to me is not irrelevant. There's not a lot to be pedantic about. I initially stated that I felt "cheated" the key-word here is "felt" I did not accuse anyone of any wrong doing, I communicated that the situation I was in, that what I had spend my money on resulted in a feeling of having been "cheated".

My use of the word abstract was in the same way that beautiful can be an abstract noun; for what is beautiful to me might not be beautiful to you. In this regard, it is abstract because what makes you feel cheated is obviously (in this scenario) different to what makes me feel cheated.

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Best of luck. I hope they get you a refund if you choose to go that route. The Heavy Metal is the only truly pink mech, though. I think it's worth it just for that.

Thank you, I have requested a refund. I honestly have no interest in a pink mech, it does not hold any entertainment value given all the unpleasantness I have experienced from this so far.

Edited by Comfy Wedgie, 23 July 2015 - 02:14 PM.

[Eaerie]

As stated assaults are a fairly tough class to get use to. You are slow (cant stay on target against a good light pilot)and they are big (easy to be spotted and focused by multiple enemies). This means positioning is VERY important when piloting one. Stay with a couple buddies to, cause if you get behind you bet a light or two are just looking for a lone assault mech.

In my opinion armor is not equal to the amount of firepower a lot of these mechs can bring to bear, good examples are stormcrows, direwolves and timberwolves. stormcrows can easily field a 50+point alpha and it is a medium mech. Two or 3 well placed alphas from it will strip your armor/kill you.

Best advise i can give is if you are fairly new to playing don't expect to do really well right away. there are a lot of things you need to be proficient at in order to hold your own against the more veteran players. have to know the maps(hiding places, ambush spots etc) how to pilot(move in one direction while shooting/torso twisting) know your weapons(ranges, damage and heat) and be able to predict enemy weapon loadouts by how the opposing mech is moving (how fast, what type of mech, what range is it attempting to stay at etc etc)

[Comfy Wedgie]

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assault Mechs are tough to kill, but you have to know how to play them, if you have the aptitude for assaults then great, if not then practice may give you it, but no Mech can charge 3 enemy Mechs head on and expect to win, and some , some Nova, Hunchback, Wolverine, Griffin and Stormcrow builds can have similar firepower to you, it is just that they will overheat after 2-3 shots while you can keep firing much longer.

Thank you for the good information, I do appreciate it.

And I find it interesting that you say Assaults are tough to kill, I find it the opposite, all the ones I have experienced are miserably easy to kill. I am not expecting to take on 3 mechs and win, far from it, but I know I am competent when aiming and in a battle overall but it just seems to me that any mech that takes me on wipes out an assault. This is not my experience in a Thunderbolt or timber wolf, or even a Griffin.

It is just the assaults that I get massively destroyed so quickly in..

But thank you.

Edited by Comfy Wedgie, 23 July 2015 - 02:50 PM.

[Spike Brave]

I would like to comment about purchasing mechs. First let me say, I'm not judging or being derogatory. I just want to speak to the pricing model. They have gone to great lengths to ensure this is not a pay to win game. Hero mechs aren't better, they are for the lore junkies. The Highlander "Heavy Metal" was the personal mech of Rhonda Snord. Link for the lore if you care: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rhonda_Snord . This gives fans the chance to step into the role of their favorite Mechwarrior.

As far as the packs go, they are just a way to skip the grind and get early access.If you purchase the Resistance II or Origins pack you'll get access to the mech a few months before they became available for Cbills. If your looking to buy a mech that's just flat out better, tougher, or easier; I'm afraid that just isn't something that is offered.

[Comfy Wedgie]

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+1. Seriously. Ask us. We will help. Find me online and team up with me if you want any recommendations on something or if you just want someone to play with. You can drop in on the na1.mech-connect.net teamspeak and find me most nights.

Thank you, I really appreciate this. I need some competent people to play with. I have a Cataphract with ECM, I try to tell other players how it works and what to expect because I think a lot of people don't really understand ECM but it just seems that so many players don't care. They run off from under it's cover, I try to encourage heavies / assaults to flank with me being escort so they're invisible and I'm ignored.

Some groups are just so terrible to be in that nothing you do and no amount of talking and explaining helps. Plus, I am sure I would benefit immensely from being with more experienced players...

[Tetra Cutestopher Grey]

Comfy, I'd like to thank you for your well composed post and even more so appreciate your reply to others in this forum, whom I think come from too much of a literal and emotionless vector of thinking + pledge a little too closely to Piranha Games. They may not understand there are serious consequences to your experience.

You are new. This isn't the first time I've heard of a new player speaking of the issues you have, but it IS the first time a new player has so brilliantly put into words the obvious flaws in MWO.

Without new players such as yourself, this game will not grow. Besides hiding new experiences behind C-Bill walls while providing terribly slow and drudging ways to produce the ingame currency, PGI has shown me they seemingly care more about charging real money for cockpit items or paint schemes then actually making a great game with good mechanics containing decent enough accessibility instead of the death trap that is pandering to a tiny, stubbornly loyal fan base.

As a newer player (don't let my founder status fool you, I quickly quit the game after I had seen what I donated to and only recently came back for CW), I can only speak of the Assault Mechs seemingly working as intended. The larger body does unfortunately give easy focus fire points, and as the slowest type of mech - typically you will be focused and die in seconds.

I completely understand your mentality in regards to assaults. They are the biggest, pack the most armor, so by default they should be able to (as you said) tank. Personally, I think Assaults aren't durable enough from the front and perhaps should have more of an exaggerated weakness in the back after a compensated front buff.

If this game wants to be realistic - it would copy its cheesy early 90s cartoons and assaults would be MUCH stronger.

Personally my issue is with MWO currency, cockpit item greed, and wall clipping blocking lasers + projectiles despite hardpoints massively clearing space. It's bad game design when an invisible wall protrudes 1 ft away from actual textures of the building you are behind.

Thanks for this thread and I hope PGI listens to your valuable feedback and experience as a new player. Please let us know if they replied and if you were granted a refund.

[Comfy Wedgie]

I did want to update that support has said that even though they don't normally do this that they will give me a refund on the mech.

So I am very happy and very grateful to those that suggested I contact support!!

And very grateful to support as well. I am glad that all this is resolved.

I am a budget-y kind of person and will have the money put aside for the Clan puma pack (the $150) one very soon so that has me quite excited and optimistic.

[InspectorG]

Comfy Wedgie, on 23 July 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

What does the dev team have to say or do about this then? Is this really how I should expect to be treated. I am trying to support them financially and yet this purchase is making me not want to pay for anything again.

If I could get a refund on this I'd be perfectly happy, but as it stands now, more so after your reply, I feel like I have been swindled / robbed...

Caveat Emptor...do some research before you buy. Not trying to be snide. Basic research from good sources would show that Highlanders are not all that good anymore.

Second, bigger+heavier =/= tank in MWO. There are no tanks in MWO. Any 3 mechs can focus down and kill the most armored mech in seconds.

Which brings up the main problem: your piloting.

Lights and Assaults are the hardest to pilot because they are less forgiving to mistakes.

Assaults are VERY dependent on positioning, you mess up and you are too slow to correct it.
Assaults main role is to help a push, bring more firepower, and set up firing lanes which is like a type of area denial.
Some can brawl but you have to realize you are counting on a 2:1 trade before you die. A 1:1 trade is okay-ish but may not help a Pug as much as a group drop.

If you arent confident that you can:

A. know when and where to lead a push
B. know you will kill at least 1 fresh enemy
C. know Pug mates will push with you(risky)

Then dont brawl.

Direct fire at @500m is the game you wanna play and you NEED to be patient. Let the faster mechs peek and poke and run around.

Assaults generally stay with the murderball and jump in when a good push is forming or they set up a firing lane and drop a hard alpha on someone who peeks at the wrong place/time.

Spec good comp pilots to learn the good mechs/loadouts and how to position/time attacks.

Glad to hear you got your $ back, research first, this game is very bare-bones and doesnt hold your hand.

[Comfy Wedgie]

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Caveat Emptor...do some research before you buy. Not trying to be snide. Basic research from good sources would show that Highlanders are not all that good anymore.

That's great advice, in general, but a lot of people have to manage their time accordingly. In your experience, you might not be used to this, this game might be your world for all I know; and I don't.

For a lot of people, no, let's call us consumers. We are a viable resource to businesses that want our money. You see, in the end, it's not your great knowledge or search skills, or ability to read forums that keeps them in business, it's money, cold hard cash. It's the reality of the capitalist society we live in.

Now, to avoid any unpleasantness, and I mean no more disrespect than you intended towards me when you said that lack of basic research was my downfall is that the counter point I am trying to make is that time is a commodity that not all of us have. I have paid for mechs in this game before and have had a good time with them.

I did not need to research or read forums first. Now, although I am using considerable time today on these forums, I am often working on multiple projects that require my full attention and distractions can be harmful to my productivity. Again, days like today are the exception but I will concede I have lost considerable time and my productivity on a particular project has suffered from these refutes and explanations.

But to get back on point, which is simple. Irrespective of what you want to believe the company that makes the game you enjoy requires money to continue to function. I am a source of that money. In any business, when a customer has a bad experience it can and often does cost the businesses it's bottom line. In my situation, my bad experience today had me rethink whether I wanted to purchase a considerably expensive (for a video game) package.

When I, the consumer am advised that the product I wish to purchase is flawed and that I need to research first before spending my money else I am the fool, well, more often the not, the customer chooses to not spend their money and the business suffers. In short, your advice is not good for business. That's really all I'm trying to say.

But that said, you are entitled to your opinion, and I'm glad you have it, but I hope you understand the counterpoint.

In the end, this bad experience was made right by support and the company and I will continue to invest money into their game and that's ultimately good for you as a player. Had you been support and told me to suck it and see because I didn't research first and "caveat empor" then you would have lost future purchases from this customer.

For your own edification, you may want to consider this. And I swear, this is not a criticism to you; I respond in the same vain as how you responded to me, and I hope you are able to see a differing side to this situation.

That said, I do look forward to my Puma pack.

Also, thank you VERY much for the tips, I am reading them more than once. In the end, the better I am, if you're stuck with me in a PUG, the better the chance we all end up with more C-bills..

Edited by Comfy Wedgie, 23 July 2015 - 03:51 PM.