64 replies to this topic

[Sarlic]

Peter2k, on 26 July 2015 - 04:33 AM, said:

Thx for the generalization
NA Pugs don't suck at all

Also what time you're playing on?
Is it CoD kids home from school time or dad who has to make a living and loves MechWarrior finally having some time, time
Also


If we had time
It's summer and some nice weather
What you're getting are kids that are out for summer break, not the experienced vets
We're busy BBQ'ing

And many I know love avoiding events like the plague, just brings out the worst usually

Shoot most good players I know would never get caught dropping solo

Ha! No offense man. But that's just my experiences. The event isnt helping either.

I found EU players are great at killing. Lacking at teamwork and way more FF plus bumping in each others.
I found NA players are better at teamwork, due no languague barriers but lacking at prioritising targets (killing players) and perhaps focusing fire.

Both have their downsides i guess.

I find both fun and both can be frustating at times.

But these are just my experiences so far.

Edited by Sarlic, 26 July 2015 - 06:23 AM.

[KHETTI]

I personally find no difference between both servers, 90% of both server populations haven't got a clue how to build a mech or play.
This wouldn't be a problem if the Match maker had us segregated into skill tiers, and no randomly mixing bad with good.
It doesn't work.

[Deathlike]

Darth Hotz, on 26 July 2015 - 04:15 AM, said:

LOL.

Average player kills:

30 Europe vs 23 North-America

I am sorry that your national feelings got hurt, but get over it without bending the numbers in a way that just makes you feel better.

Do you even know how the reward systems work? It's not hard to explain.

In a 12-11 match result, everyone practically gets rewarded well. In a 12-0 roflstomp, the losing team gets pathetic rewards. It's not that complicated?

How else would you explain it?

With the kills, I still have little to no context to what it actually means.

Even then, EVERY single time I play in non-NA primetime, the quality of play is almost always lower than what I've seen in NA-primetime (mind you, there's still lots of bad in NA-primetime). This has not changed after MANY tournies through Open Beta.

Edited by Deathlike, 26 July 2015 - 07:07 AM.

[Baelfire]

Terciel1976, on 26 July 2015 - 05:49 AM, said:

Actually the higher stats can mean a number of things.

According to said statistics EU players win more often than NA players, so their w/l rating is better. That is the only statistic that would be important for the OP's claim. Because it means that having a lot of EU players in your team improves your chance of winning. So the statistic proved him wrong.

But right now this doesn't matter anyway. The distribution between EU/NA players is roughly the same on both types of servers, so there is actually no difference where you play and any claim of losing because you play here or there is just silly. That may change after the event, but i really doubt that, at least for solo drops.

Edited by Baelfire, 26 July 2015 - 07:31 AM.

[Darth Hotz]

Deathlike, on 26 July 2015 - 07:03 AM, said:

Do you even know how the reward systems work? It's not hard to explain.

In a 12-11 match result, everyone practically gets rewarded well. In a 12-0 roflstomp, the losing team gets pathetic rewards. It's not that complicated?

How else would you explain it?

With the kills, I still have little to no context to what it actually means.

Even then, EVERY single time I play in non-NA primetime, the quality of play is almost always lower than what I've seen in NA-primetime (mind you, there's still lots of bad in NA-primetime). This has not changed after MANY tournies through Open Beta.

I know how the system works, but i wasnt even quoting the assist statistics (160 eu vs129 na). Instead I would like to know how you evaluate that the quality of play is "generally far lower" among europeans. Since it isnt statistics, do you just base your opinion on your own experiences? Are you dying faster? This might then not prove what you think you are proving...

To do the event i played at night on the na servers and before the eu server i played a lot at na prime time too. I saw lrm spammers, people not taking cover, bad aiming, no situational awareness, cowardice, nascar leaving assaults to die, running clueless after the own lights into death traps, bad loadouts, chasing rabbits, etc. Probably not being that low in elo myself and usually mostly among the top 4 in damage in the games i play, is this then the generally higher level you are talking about?

But to calm you down, i see the same among european players too. I just would be carefull in claiming that certain regions suck, when the official numbers show the opposite.

[Catra Lanis]

Sarlic, on 25 July 2015 - 11:01 PM, said:

Been experiencing the same. EU players sucks at teamworking. But the killing is pretty good. It's like a lottery. No offense, but high amount of non english speakers, terrible teamwork (most of them solo work) and so on.

But that does not mean i only had bad matches. Certainly not. I had good matches as well. But sometimes you can only count these matches on one hand.

But suprisingly i kill more players in my Atlas then NA.

And i like the bitching on NA, so i can b*tch with them instead of bitching alone in the EU server.

I'm euro and the few matches I've played seem different. I have not played enough to say that they're worse, just different in a way I can't quite put my finger on. Maybe the language is a factor. Several nationalities and quite a few don't seem to be good at english.

[C E Dwyer]

Krauser V, on 25 July 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

So. I'm a founder and have been with the game forever. Always been a pug-warrior. And pugs generally never bugged me that much ; last few months even, pugs have been very good with in general with people not being shy to use voice chat and so on. Typically I'm winning 3/4th of the matches I'm playing simply cause the pugs i drop with have a great grasp of the game and what to do.

Enter the EU servers. Being from Amsterdam I instantly tick the EU servers as my only go to server since they were online. Except ... I have a creeping suspicion that you're previous ELO doesn't count ?

Why ? Well , I haven't been more frustrated with pugs in the last 6 hrs than I have with them in a long long time ... I've lost -every- match in the last 6 hrs but one, mainly due to.

1. My team sticking around the drop zone area, not pushing ground , getting surrounded & killed.
2. Everybody trying to snipe their way to victory as a solo sniper .. with bad aim.
Which is no real DPS threat to the enemy and they steam-roll us with focus fire.
3. Getting cored by lance mates 2 seconds into the game cause they wanted to fire their AC/20 for "lolz"

After 6hrs of very frustrating matches (still managed to clear 46 points in the personal challenge) I decided to untick EU servers and go back to the N.America one. Guess what ? Winning matches again, people playing intelligently, not getting shot in the back, ton of people on voice chat again being social and best of all, not being frustrated.

So what's the deal with the EU servers ? Are our ELO's back to "playing with the noobs" level ?
Did somebody just open a can-o-fresh people on the EU servers ? What's up ?

Well euro prim time matches have always been like that, in pug land, it can be a complete waste of time logging in between 4pm-7pm on euro times if your an aggressive player, because most of the good euro players go to group play, leaving the ones that wouldn't push if there was a gold bar in the other teams base up for grabs, in pug land, and now there isn't the NA players making the game mobile, and attacking

[C E Dwyer]

El Bandito, on 25 July 2015 - 05:12 PM, said:

PGI's data had shown that EU players tend to earn more C-Bills and win more on average than NA players, so...

http://mwomercs.com/...ervers-now-live

Stats have been proven statistically to be wrong 64% of the time, with a variation of 3%

Using more air strikes and lrms spreads the damage and gives more assists ?

More good European players go Group than PUG ?

Also to buck the trend as an example I'm English ( I used to be British and proud, but the Scots put paid to that) which is kind of Europe and own every mech but three, most are mastered.

Also it doesn't take into account that there are less clan mechs to own, the three I'm short of are two ferrets and a myst lynx, but even if I had them all I can't have more clan mech than IS

Edited by Cathy, 26 July 2015 - 12:37 PM.

[Charronn]

Cathy, on 26 July 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

Stats have been proven statistically to be wrong 64% of the time, with a variation of 3%

Using more air strikes and lrms spreads the damage and gives more assists ?

More good European players go Group than PUG ?

Also to buck the trend as an example I'm English ( I used to be British and proud, but the Scots put paid to that) which is kind of Europe and own every mech but three, most are mastered.

Also it doesn't take into account that there are less clan mechs to own, the three I'm short of are two ferrets and a myst lynx, but even if I had them all I can't have more clan mech than IS

What exactly is it that we Scots have done to you?Please explain.
Yes I'm a 45%er and bloody proud of it.

[Deathlike]

Darth Hotz, on 26 July 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

I know how the system works, but i wasnt even quoting the assist statistics (160 eu vs129 na). Instead I would like to know how you evaluate that the quality of play is "generally far lower" among europeans. Since it isnt statistics, do you just base your opinion on your own experiences? Are you dying faster? This might then not prove what you think you are proving...

To do the event i played at night on the na servers and before the eu server i played a lot at na prime time too. I saw lrm spammers, people not taking cover, bad aiming, no situational awareness, cowardice, nascar leaving assaults to die, running clueless after the own lights into death traps, bad loadouts, chasing rabbits, etc. Probably not being that low in elo myself and usually mostly among the top 4 in damage in the games i play, is this then the generally higher level you are talking about?

But to calm you down, i see the same among european players too. I just would be carefull in claiming that certain regions suck, when the official numbers show the opposite.

When the tournies I've taken serious participation happen, the quality of play dictates "how easy" I can achieve a good score in a tourney. Mind you, this is not an optimal way of determination of anything, but with enough games, it's an adequate test given the volume of matches I'd end up playing.

I'm not saying a region or a particular set of players are bad, because any region REGARDLESS can be better than North America/US (like South Korea and Starcraft), but through mostly anecdotal experiences even in a non-tourney related thing, I've had easier times in games in non-NA primetime matches. It's consistent with my experience then as it is nowadays.

The numbers only suggest really that "closer games"/more rewards correlate with "worse play" which has generally been my experience. Close games are not the norm, and are indicative of roflstomps providing the LEAST amount of rewards, and thus it's really easy to explain away the why.

Unless you can prove otherwise with a level of certainty that I've experienced through this game's development, I'm not saying other regions are bad, but the level of play I'm used to in NA, I've seen a lot less of it in non-NA play as well.. and there's still a lot of bad play in both (just more of it in non-NA primetime). I still see teamwork in non-NA play too... but it's not as much (I don't think this game is as popular outside of the US, not that MW/BT/TT isn't popular outside of the US, but it's not translating the same way).

[Zordicron]

Heh....

In the US, it is summer vacation for all the teenie bop kiddies. No school, no homework, parents are lax on bedtimes cause it doesnt get dark out till late(summer solstice is in june), and from what I gather, Euro Primetime is during working hours in NA.

Used to be, a couple months ago before school was out(like middle of may) weekend were attrocious for pugs, weeknights were pretty good. because the nose picker kids had school, homework, and parents telling them to stay off the nintendo cause it's a school night. Lately, it has been weekend **** pugs for two months straight every day.

I can't wait for "back to school". Matchmaker right now I think threw it's hands in the air and said **** it.



As for the Euro vs NA player skills....

All I can say is

LOOK HOW BIG MY EPEEN IS!!

I mean, Russ makes one offhand comment without much to back it up to show how it was derived, and suddenly the Euro players are manscaping and taunting in game.

Can you just ******* imagine if we had public ELO and stats? We get one ultra generalized comment and the egos go all stupid. I can't imagine if we could look each others stats up.

Had a match against some **** talking Euro players on NA server tonight. Rolled over them 12-1 on terra therma.
Had another on Euro server on Alpine. 3 solo kills, one guy called me hax cause i stuck him with 2 consecutive LT shots at 700M with my module boosted PPC's on my CTF0x.
Euro server, bog, conquest. MASSIVE BATTLE OF THE #YOLO's. I scored 4 kills 5 assits and1000+ dmg, with a stupid CTF0X.

So you know, the underhive is global. I will kill you no matter where you log in from because you are on the red team, not team Euro or team NA.

[Charronn]

Eldagore, on 26 July 2015 - 08:09 PM, said:

Heh....

In the US, it is summer vacation for all the teenie bop kiddies. No school, no homework, parents are lax on bedtimes cause it doesnt get dark out till late(summer solstice is in june), and from what I gather, Euro Primetime is during working hours in NA.

Used to be, a couple months ago before school was out(like middle of may) weekend were attrocious for pugs, weeknights were pretty good. because the nose picker kids had school, homework, and parents telling them to stay off the nintendo cause it's a school night. Lately, it has been weekend **** pugs for two months straight every day.

I can't wait for "back to school". Matchmaker right now I think threw it's hands in the air and said **** it.



As for the Euro vs NA player skills....

All I can say is

LOOK HOW BIG MY EPEEN IS!!

I mean, Russ makes one offhand comment without much to back it up to show how it was derived, and suddenly the Euro players are manscaping and taunting in game.

Can you just ******* imagine if we had public ELO and stats? We get one ultra generalized comment and the egos go all stupid. I can't imagine if we could look each others stats up.

Had a match against some **** talking Euro players on NA server tonight. Rolled over them 12-1 on terra therma.
Had another on Euro server on Alpine. 3 solo kills, one guy called me hax cause i stuck him with 2 consecutive LT shots at 700M with my module boosted PPC's on my CTF0x.
Euro server, bog, conquest. MASSIVE BATTLE OF THE #YOLO's. I scored 4 kills 5 assits and1000+ dmg, with a stupid CTF0X.

So you know, the underhive is global. I will kill you no matter where you log in from because you are on the red team, not team Euro or team NA.

Just bought that mech.Whats your build if you don't mind me asking?

[bad arcade kitty]

Eldagore, on 26 July 2015 - 08:09 PM, said:

LOOK HOW BIG MY EPEEN IS!!

that's exactly what the rest of your post is

[Speedy Plysitkos]

for unknown reason, DAYTONA is pretty common on eu. WTH.¨

there are two types of PUG on eu, right now.

1) 11 rambos
-well thats some crazy **** out there. Not a single mech reacts to ANY command, all spread out like bees. im always staying behind and trying to catch at least one, to pair. mostly ends with 2-12 3-12.

2) John Spartan - demolishing team
8-10 mechs since first second attack everything in path, demolishing every single mech. somtimes i have feeling they are voice comunicating , how well the attack are performed, but they are not.

dunno how ELO works there...

Edited by Titannium, 27 July 2015 - 12:46 AM.

[The Mech behind you]

Hmm the first time I saw the data was on a link from a gaming magazine. It was maybe 2-3 days after the patch. Makes me wonder when the data got collected. Very likely the data got collected BEFORE there was an EUR server and everyone was playing on the same server and EUR players had a higher ping.

Btw, when you state that the players on a specific server act the way they act, do you realise that being on one of the servers doesn't mean that all 24 players are from the same continent? And the time zones should be taken into accout too. E.g. when you play during the NA primetime it's very likely that most players you meet on the EUR server are from the NA continent too. Check the pings. That's a better indicator about where the palyers are from.

Also when you say that the players of a specific continent are better than the others because there are more stomps on your side; do you realise that the stomped one are from the same continent as you?

The facts are there! Data collected by PGI at a time (very likely) where there was only one server. And the data shows that EUR players kill more stuff, get more assists, win more often, get more C-Bills but also die more often. So it seems EUR players are just more aggressive. And being more aggressive gets you more kills than just sitting there. But that ain't news, right?

Another reason for the EUR players having the upper hand might be that they have less mechs. That means EUR players play with only a few mechs which they're better skilled or specialized in.

Personally I think the main reason is the PUGs. NA comp players seems to be better than the others. Reasons might be the ping and the language barriers. That would mean that the NA PUGs are worse or otherwise the statistic wouldn't lean towards EUR. And since there are way more PUGs than comp players the NA will have worse stats no matter how good the comps are.

Who thought that this excessive PUG-stomping during NA prime times would backfire eh?

Edited by Norman Kosh, 27 July 2015 - 02:45 AM.

[Paigan]

Krauser V, on 25 July 2015 - 04:28 PM, said:

So. I'm a founder and have been with the game forever. Always been a pug-warrior. And pugs generally never bugged me that much ; last few months even, pugs have been very good with in general with people not being shy to use voice chat and so on. Typically I'm winning 3/4th of the matches I'm playing simply cause the pugs i drop with have a great grasp of the game and what to do.

Enter the EU servers. Being from Amsterdam I instantly tick the EU servers as my only go to server since they were online. Except ... I have a creeping suspicion that you're previous ELO doesn't count ?

Why ? Well , I haven't been more frustrated with pugs in the last 6 hrs than I have with them in a long long time ... I've lost -every- match in the last 6 hrs but one, mainly due to.

1. My team sticking around the drop zone area, not pushing ground , getting surrounded & killed.
2. Everybody trying to snipe their way to victory as a solo sniper .. with bad aim.
Which is no real DPS threat to the enemy and they steam-roll us with focus fire.
3. Getting cored by lance mates 2 seconds into the game cause they wanted to fire their AC/20 for "lolz"

After 6hrs of very frustrating matches (still managed to clear 46 points in the personal challenge) I decided to untick EU servers and go back to the N.America one. Guess what ? Winning matches again, people playing intelligently, not getting shot in the back, ton of people on voice chat again being social and best of all, not being frustrated.

So what's the deal with the EU servers ? Are our ELO's back to "playing with the noobs" level ?
Did somebody just open a can-o-fresh people on the EU servers ? What's up ?

I suspect this to be highly subjectively because that is not how ELO works.

If you say ELO worked for you so far, the win rate should be around 50% because you are matched against roughly equally good people.
Saying your win rate was 75% so far would either mean you personally make up 90% of your team's strength and therefore tremendously boosting your team strength from ~50% to 75% (in which case ELO would be very broken) or it means it was indeed around ~50% and you just have very selective memory of "the good old times".

Similar on the EU side:
Even if ELO was resetted, shouldn't the enemies be noobs as well?
Why would the losing team be mostly your team all of a sudden?
I don't suspect you are the cause for it. You don't just get magically bad at playing just because there are EU servers now.
If anything, you should boost the overall team strength, leading to slightly above 50% win rate, not reduce it.
So maybe that was just a losing streak which you, again very selectively, kept in mind.


The more I think about your suspicion, the more confusing it gets.
What are you saying?
If ELO got resetted on EU to noob level, why are you losing instead of winning slightly more?
If it got not resetted, why all the losses compared to before?


My conclusion: too low a sample size, selective memory, all in your head.

Edited by Paigan, 27 July 2015 - 03:04 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Dunno, saw the same people on EU as usual, gameplay also hardly differed. Feels a bit easier due to better latency giving you better results on your actions without the latency delay.

[Wintersdark]

Spr1ggan, on 26 July 2015 - 05:51 AM, said:

I would also add that the amount of team killing is noticeably higher on the EU servers .

I've noticed this, actually.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mcgral18, on 25 July 2015 - 04:56 PM, said:

Pretty sure that's just the PUG LIFE.


You'll lose 5 matches in a row, then win 1 by a landslide. Generally how things work.

Even when losing by landslide, I have been able to get my 30+ in most matches. I only played One match on the EuroServer. I intend to give it a shakedown tomorrow since I have to finish getting 7-8 more points on the US Assault server tonight.

[Yellonet]

Shredhead, on 26 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Euro players are generally just worse than NA players. There are bad tactics abound and the playstyle is usually dictated by bad and timid tactics due to a very small high comp scene in EU. EU base is dominated by roleplayers and casuals, while the influence of comp players in NA prime time is way higher and has changed tactics even down to casual levels.

If this is true it sounds like an inverse of the CSGO scene.