264 replies to this topic

[Greenjulius]

It always baffles me when people post LRM hate threads. There are so many counters for LRMs that nuilfy the entire weapon system, that they are of less concern to me than Streak boats are.

1.) Cover - Free and easy. Just go somewhere close to something you can hide behind, and watch all that enemy ammo tonnage dissapear.

2.) ECM - The lazy mans crutch, a real favorite of mine. Unless you're tagged, narced, UAV'd, or ECM-canceled with BAP/CAP/ECM, it completely stops LRMs from even being able to target you.

3.) Radar Deprivation Module - Incoming LRMs --> Run behind a hill and they lose you as a target. Worth every penny, and adds no weight to your mech.

4.) AMS - Directly shoots down LRMs as well as other missiles. Does a good job of turning that LRM shower into a light show for your enjoyment.

5.) Range - IS LRMs do NOTHING under 180 meters. They just bounce off you amusingly. Close distance with foolish LRM mech and it is limited to backup weapons only. Clan LRMs do less damage the closer you are too them, so hug the enemy and he will do almost nothing but flail about and explode.

6.) Speed - If you are getting hit by indirectly fired LRMs and you're in a light, just run at full speed and most will miss you completely. LRMs are terrible against small, fast targets unless they are TAG'd or NARC'd.

Edited by Greenjulius, 26 July 2015 - 05:04 PM.

[Haji1096]

LRMS are only marginally more useful than Flamers.

If anything they need to be buffed. 10x damaged for dumb fired LRMS, 2000 meter max range, velocity increase

[SolVali]

I take LRMs with me. The main point of them from what it seems, is to make the enemy duck into cover, and stay there for a good few seconds while he avoids my lrms. Damage is a secondary concern. If he stays out, he takes it, if he doesn't, he's out of the action for a few seconds.

[Yellonet]

1st match with LRMS, got killed after getting stuck on terrain.
2nd match: 1 kill 7 assists, (with my poor quick build hunchback with LRM)... point and click adventure, too easy as you don't need to risk line of sight to the enemy.
Come on, monkeys could play LRM builds and get good results.

LRM's just shouldn't be this easy to use.

[Throat Punch]

1st match with laser vomit, got killed after getting stuck on terrain.
2nd match: 1 kill 7 assists, (with my poor quick build Shadow Cat with lasers)... point and click adventure, too easy as you don't need to risk line of sight to the enemy.
Come on, monkeys could play laser builds and get good results.

Laser's just shouldn't be this easy to use.

[Mcgral18]

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

1st match with LRMS, got killed after getting stuck on terrain.
2nd match: 1 kill 7 assists, (with my poor quick build hunchback with LRM)... point and click adventure, too easy as you don't need to risk line of sight to the enemy.
Come on, monkeys could play LRM builds and get good results.

LRM's just shouldn't be this easy to use.

As stated earlier, they're effective against Bads.

That's about it. Caustic gives some cause for concern, but even that has cover if you don't play Ring around the Rosie.

[Greenjulius]

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

1st match with LRMS, got killed after getting stuck on terrain.
2nd match: 1 kill 7 assists, (with my poor quick build hunchback with LRM)... point and click adventure, too easy as you don't need to risk line of sight to the enemy.
Come on, monkeys could play LRM builds and get good results.

LRM's just shouldn't be this easy to use.

Low ELO pugs tend to flail about in confusion when they are getting LRMed. Players with even a decent amount of experience will probably die to LRMs maybe 1% of the time. They are so easy to avoid.

You can't make bad players not die to a crappy weapon. They will just keep running out in the open, under UAVs, TAG fire, etc, and dying. Eventually they will learn and adapt.

[El Bandito]

ScarecrowES, on 26 July 2015 - 03:42 PM, said:

LRMs are so ridiculously easy to defeat I can't imagine that there are people who even complain about them now.

With so much ECM, cover, radar dep, cover, lack of tag/narc, cover, not standing out in the open for long periods of time, cover, and cover, there are just too many options out there to make LRMs viable most of the time.

I recently saw a Founder complaining about how OP LRMs are. A Founder FFS. He must be extra special in the head.

On a more serious note, you will find OP's thread x 1000, once MWO hits Steam. LRMs do need to be reworked into a more consistent performer. For that, both ECM and LRMs need changes.

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

1st match with LRMS, got killed after getting stuck on terrain.
2nd match: 1 kill 7 assists, (with my poor quick build hunchback with LRM)... point and click adventure, too easy as you don't need to risk line of sight to the enemy.
Come on, monkeys could play LRM builds and get good results.

LRM's just shouldn't be this easy to use.

Hah! I can get 1 kill 7 assists while falling asleep on my laser boats or AC5 boats. They are even easier to use than LRMs cause I do not have to worry about ECMs!

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

(with my poor quick build hunchback with LRM)

Oh and by HBK you meant the HBK-4J. That mech is an overquirked easy-mode monkey-machine, and you should not be proud in doing anything while riding it.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 July 2015 - 05:20 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

well i got that it's a troll

Mcgral18, on 26 July 2015 - 05:09 PM, said:

As stated earlier, they're effective against Bads.

That's about it. Caustic gives some cause for concern, but even that has cover if you don't play Ring around the Rosie.

any lrm on caustic which goes alone to snipe nascar around the caldera from the side quickly gets a friendly visit or 2+ lights/mediums though

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 26 July 2015 - 05:14 PM.

[Yellonet]

Mors Draco, on 26 July 2015 - 05:08 PM, said:

1st match with laser vomit, got killed after getting stuck on terrain.
2nd match: 1 kill 7 assists, (with my poor quick build Shadow Cat with lasers)... point and click adventure, too easy as you don't need to risk line of sight to the enemy.
Come on, monkeys could play laser builds and get good results.

Laser's just shouldn't be this easy to use.

You do need LoS when using lasers. You fail miserably
There are big difference in using direct fire weapons and indirect fire weapons in the game, with lasers you need to expose yourself to direct enemy fire, thus you will need to aim more precisely to get more damage/faster kills, also you need to actively avoid taking damage by using cover or spreading damage over your mech.
With LRM you just point in the general direction, wait a second or two then press a button.

[Throat Punch]

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

You do need LoS when using lasers. You fail miserably
There are big difference in using direct fire weapons and indirect fire weapons in the game, with lasers you need to expose yourself to direct enemy fire, thus you will need to aim more precisely to get more damage/faster kills, also you need to actively avoid taking damage by using cover or spreading damage over your mech.
With LRM you just point in the general direction, wait a second or two then press a button.

Right, you just keep on believin'

[Yellonet]

El Bandito, on 26 July 2015 - 05:13 PM, said:

Hah! I can get 1 kill 7 assists while falling asleep on my laser boats or AC5 boats. They are even easier to use than LRMs cause I do not have to worry about ECMs!

Well of course, but the point is that it takes less skill to spamming missiles in a general direction that it does to use direct fire weapons. I'm sure you could get a 4 year old to understand how to use a LRM boat decently, but a brawler... maybe not.

[El Bandito]

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

You do need LoS when using lasers. You fail miserably
There are big difference in using direct fire weapons and indirect fire weapons in the game, with lasers you need to expose yourself to direct enemy fire, thus you will need to aim more precisely to get more damage/faster kills, also you need to actively avoid taking damage by using cover or spreading damage over your mech.
With LRM you just point in the general direction, wait a second or two then press a button.

Yeah, good luck trying to win like that in any decent Elo. But hey, if clubbing bads is your preference, then by all means, go for it. Stick to lowbie league.

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

Well of course, but the point is that it takes less skill to spamming missiles in a general direction that it does to use direct fire weapons. I'm sure you could get a 4 year old to understand how to use a LRM boat decently, but a brawler... maybe not.

And it takes less skill in avoiding LRMs than lasers or AC5s.

LRMs are basically Elo check. Just like Master Yi in LoL.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 July 2015 - 05:26 PM.

[Odinvolk]

Between ECM, AMS, Radar Deprivation and actual physical Cover on each map, LRMs are as easy as ever to avoid.
Just don't brainlessly run onto a middle of an open map, and you will wonder why anyone still uses them. I have like 1 summoner that still uses LRMs, but that's just out of habit.

[Thunder Child]

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think the Crosshair tracking LRMs are the way to go. Double the damage on them so that when they hit, they HURT. Double the reload to compensate. People won't need to bring as much ammo due to increased accuracy. ECM no longer has an effect on LRMs if they chase the Crosshair. And if they chase the crosshair, relative to their current flight path of course, not doing 180s to come flying back towards the hill 2m in front of you, then indirect fire becomes a judgement thing, a "SKILL", rather than an "easy-mode Lock-on".

MAKE IT HAPPEN PGI! Then it will be a fun, skill based weapon, that will still allow the boats to sit in a corner and spray missiles all over the hill, the forest, the canning factory, the boat, the citadel, the dropship, the bridge, the statues, the radio tower, sniper hill, and that Daishi that stood still for too long!

Edited by Thunder Child, 26 July 2015 - 06:30 PM.

[Lightfoot]

I rarely see LRMs. ECM has MWO locked down right now and even without it LRMs are easy to spoof or dodge. You say slow mech? An Assault then? Assaults are a little prone to LRMs, but they have 80-100 tons of armor, weapons, and heatsinks so I guess there has to be a downside? Even so if you just play smart you will never be hit by LRMs.

LRMs need a huge buff. Damage seems to be out so faster speed maybe. They stealthily narrowed the angle required to get a head-on hit with LRMs in January I think. Reverse that nerf for one.

[NephyrisX]

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

You do need LoS when using lasers. You fail miserably
There are big difference in using direct fire weapons and indirect fire weapons in the game, with lasers you need to expose yourself to direct enemy fire, thus you will need to aim more precisely to get more damage/faster kills, also you need to actively avoid taking damage by using cover or spreading damage over your mech.
With LRM you just point in the general direction, wait a second or two then press a button.

I see a scrub. A really loud scrub.

LRM builds are already a rarity as of now, and you want LRMs to be nerfed even more?

Top Kek.

Edited by NephyrisX, 26 July 2015 - 08:16 PM.

[Chuck Jager]

Radar Derp - a CHEAP 6million - never leave the Drop Ship without it

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

The last few days I've been playing in the rain... of missiles.

The last few days, I've played in pug drops with a minimum of 6 ECM mechs, usually from 3 Cheetah's and 3 Scats since everyone's leveling them up.

Whatever you're doing... you're doing it wrong.

[Wintersdark]

RedDevil, on 26 July 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

Wintersdark I have no idea why some people dog-pile on the concerns of players when it comes to LRMs. These threads keep coming up for a reason. You can say it's because those people are stupid or bad all you want, but that will never fix it.

Good ideas and bad ideas all get dog-piled on if there's ever a hint at changing how indirect fire works. It's like USA politics in the news.

actually, most of us are fine with changing how indirect fire works. The problem is, if you need indirect fire then direct fire needs a MASSIVE buff, because right now LRM's are very poor weapons to start with.

The problem is, we've been around this discussion a million times. The salient points are:
1) In the current game, LRM's are one of the worst weapon systems, period.
2) The key to surviving LRM's is in accepting and understanding that it's in the targeted players hands - if you die to LRM's, it's because you played poorly more than anything else, more than with ANY other weapon system.

We'd LOVE to see changes. We don't like how LRM's currently work. We aren't trying to preserve some great status quo.

But the problem is, if you're trying to "fix" LRM's from the viewpoint that they are too powerful, you're going to fail. Because if you think LRM's are too powerful, it's a clear indication that you don't really understand the problem.

But we get tired of having this discussion because 99% of the time, the poster flatly refuses to accept that he doesn't know what he's talking about, no matter how new and inexperienced he is.