68 replies to this topic

[M T]

Comfy Wedgie, on 29 July 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

For all those that just want to say nothing is broken, everything is perfect please move along, I will not answer you nor waste my time arguing with you.

This is an expression of frustration looking to illicit comments pertaining to a similar experience and how it was overcome, if it was at all.

So, after another post full of drama I bought a Clan pack for a significant amount of money that included 3 Dire wolves.

Which I have painstakingly mastered and therefore have all their speed quirks plus double to the initial skills.

And it is a horrible poorly implemented mech.

I have heard a lot about hit boxes and the like and I guess that is the problem.

Basically, even at 54 mph I can't keep up with anyone and am constantly left behind which allows for:

An ECM light that I can't see on radar (nor visually) to stay constantly behind me and pick me off with little to no effort, I am lucky to ever get a shot off.

Which brings me to another point, this game has a heavy focus on the PUG, after all the "PLAY NOW" button takes you to those matches and not to the whole CW thing. Telling me that I need a medium to escort me in PUG is useless, the other players don't care, end of story; it's that simple.

I have fought numerous heavies and lights that can take a pounding from me. The only setup I can make work is 2 AC10s, 6 med er lasers and heat sinks, CAPs and even a targeting computer, just to get the tonnage up.

I went one on one with another dire wolf put no more than 6 dbl clicks worth of dual ac10 into him and he died. Just like that. In my Dire Wolf it made me really sad because I know how he felt. Also, he started at 100% and died at around 71%; which I also thought was pathetic.

Taking on anything else it's a poundfest where I am smothering them in dual AC10 hits and they take less damage than the dire wolf I fought. And my favorite, if it gets rough, they can run away, something else you can't do as a Dire wolf. Oh, be it light, med, heavy or another assault, 1 on 1 in a brawl, fresh, you will be destroyed from CT almost ever time whilst your enemy has the advantage of damage being spread around.

I have tried so many combinations because my curiosity was peaked and they're all made irrelevant by the fact that you can't keep up with the group, are constantly picked off by lights and can't defend yourself when it happens.

I have tried dual AC20s - super hot and was not as effective as 2xAC10
Multiple ER-PPCs - horrible, slow, useless...
Missile boating
4 AC10s (barely enough ammo)
5 AC5s and med lasers

Nothing will save you from an invisible light right behind you that takes you out.; and you can't even turn around fast enough to face them.

And that's another thing, what's the use of my Clan Active Probe it can't detect an invisible light behind me? It's ridiculous.

And even though I'm a new player, I can see how the addition of the Cheetah with ECM has made the game even more miserable for Dire Wolf players.

Ironically, my first experience with assaults was the Awesome which I never had a problem with. You could get lights off you and be a useful member of the team.

As a Dire wolf if people baby sit me to get to destination that's less mechs in the brawl and we take extra damage.

If hey ignore me I am picked off before I can get there.

It is a miserable, and I mean miserable play experience.

So why did I master them? I was curious. Sometimes you just want to see how bad something is; well that's after all of the "it must be me" thoughts you go through at first.

It's not me. I've had enough situations I have been unable to resolve in a reasonable way that makes the play experience in a Dire Wolf just constant misery.

The fact is, indeed, if you solo pug, and you are in a direwolf, you can get left behind, and die.

[Nyuuu]

Comfy Wedgie, on 29 July 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

No, I'm sorry but you're just outright wrong when it comes to the UAC 5s.

Well then excellent, we can close down this thread.

Spoiler

That was over a year ago in an unbasiced uac5 Dakkawolf, I think my first 1,2k game ever, with the not even double basiced Direwhale still standing as my highest average damage mech overall a year later.
If I can do something like that in my inferior build on a not even mastered chassis I cant see in the slightest how you could have any problems or complaints with your superior Direwolf build and even moar ammo.

Edited by Nyuuu, 29 July 2015 - 01:32 PM.

[Mr Hunter]

MWO is a game about role warfare, by that I mean everyone has to do there damned job ie escorting the big boys.
Heres what I would do

• give ecm mechs points based on how many assault mechs are under coverage.
  
• give lights, mediums points for attacking mechs that are attacking the assaults.
  
• fix the matchmaker so that the teams are actually balanced.
  
• Discourage pulse laser boating ie make them laser mgs and if you dont want to do that bring back the heat penalty

These are rough ideas nothing more mind you. But i thing this would help with the issue.

[bad arcade kitty]

Comfy Wedgie, on 29 July 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

For all those that just want to say nothing is broken, everything is perfect please move along, I will not answer you nor waste my time arguing with you.

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And it is a horrible poorly implemented mech.

pshaw

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Which brings me to another point, this game has a heavy focus on the PUG, after all the "PLAY NOW" button takes you to those matches and not to the whole CW thing. Telling me that I need a medium to escort me in PUG is useless, the other players don't care, end of story; it's that simple.

metamechs.com considers it as a top tier mech to carry pug games hard
http://metamechs.com...ists/solo-list/
http://metamechs.com...mega-tier-list/

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I have heard a lot about hit boxes and the like and I guess that is the problem.

its hitboxes are fine

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Basically, even at 54 mph I can't keep up with anyone

that's why piloting it needs a serious situational awareness and map knowledge
consider to play conquest too, it's the least nascaring mode i.e. with the least amount of circle racing

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I went one on one with another dire wolf put no more than 6 dbl clicks worth of dual ac10 into him and he died. Just like that. In my Dire Wolf it made me really sad because I know how he felt. Also, he started at 100% and died at around 71%; which I also thought was pathetic.

how so, overall hp means all the hp of all armor from all over the body and all the structure of every limb and torso part, having only 71% of those is more than enough to die if you don't torso twist

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Oh, be it light, med, heavy or another assault, 1 on 1 in a brawl, fresh, you will be destroyed from CT almost ever time whilst your enemy has the advantage of damage being spread around.

they torso twist, you should too

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Nothing will save you from an invisible light right behind you that takes you out.; and you can't even turn around fast enough to face them.

lights are strong vs assaults, yeah. but you can catch it anyway, when you realize in what direction it circles you you turn into the opposite one and catch it, also if possible (and it damn should usually be possible if you pilot it any right) you can use a nearby cover to protect you back, i.e. you move back/stand back to a wall and wait when it appears

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And that's another thing, what's the use of my Clan Active Probe it can't detect an invisible light behind me? It's ridiculous.

you don't really need it that much on a dire wolf

it counters ecm in 240 meters range which is not that important if you don't use streaks (or at least lrms), makes your radar range 20% longer from 800 to 1000 meters and speeds up target info gathering i.e. how fast the enemy's paper doll appears in the right upper corner of the screen, it doesn't see targets outside of your radar cone

to detect a mech behind you either should use seismic sensor module and stand still, or launch uav... or turn around

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 29 July 2015 - 03:15 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Fobhopper, on 29 July 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

King Crab would like to have a word with you, that thing literally IS A WALKING FORTRESS. And its slower than the Dire(whale)Wolf. As someone who has 4 king crabs;

the KCG is only slower than the DWF if you are using an engine smaller than 300, or have elited the DWF and not the KCG, most people seem to up engine a KCG to a 325 or 350, giving the King Crab more speed and agility than the DWF

Comfy Wedgie, on 29 July 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

Yeah, I've done all the elites as well to get the 2x - I only did because I really thought it would make a difference, and it's a bit nicer, but not like the difference when I did it for my Timber Wolf which is a death dealing machine (that even I think is unfair).

Or the Thunderbolt 5SS - that thing is vicious and takes a beating FAR more than any of my Dire Wolves can. That's part of my issue, these heavies I own are so much better than the Dire Wolf in terms of damage I do with them and damage they can take.

your Thunderbolt is smaller and is better at spreading damage, so it feels more durable because you are not taking all the damage on the same componant

Heavies may only have 1/2-2/3 the firepower but they also have reasonable speed allowing them to relocate more effectively when compared to the DWF, e.g. if we compare the TBR with the DWF the TBR is 25 tonnes lighter, packs a much larger engine and has a little over 1/2 the weight available for weapons and ammo, however the Timber Wolf is a significant threat to any other Mech and a significant part of that is the speed and agility the Dire Wolf trades for firepower, depending on load out at any range, even if you attack it from behind the TBR has the agility to respond, the Timber Wolf and indeed most Heavies can fill a wide range of rolls depending on how you set them up while the Dire Wolf is just a (barely) mobile weapons platform.
when under fire the superior speed and agility of lighter Mechs allow them to better spread (or even avoid) damage, while the Dire Wolf cannot do any where near as effectively.

[bad arcade kitty]

Fobhopper, on 29 July 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

The direwhale isn't as terrible as you make it out to be. Here is my build and it works pretty good. 1 lrm15, 2 uac 5's, 4 medium lasers.

hahaha, if i saw that build on dire i would post it on the headshaking facepalming build thread
it's a build which a 65 tonner ebon jaguar can carry being 35 tons lighter, also 2 uac-5 make lrm-15 kind of redundant and that weight would better be spent for heat sinks (on ebj) or additional weapon (on dire)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...332ceca207e38ca

[Night Thastus]

Hate to say it, but from what I've seen, the Dire isn't your type of 'Mech, or you're not using it in a way that suits you. I've used it, and while it's not my style, It's certainly very powerful.

It has 50 free tons and the most armor of any 'Mech in the game, tied with the Atlas and King Crab. It lacks endo and ferro, giving it LOTS of free space and slots. It has 6 ballistic slots, all in good locations. It lacks a lot of hard-locked equipment.

The only real disadvantage is that it's slow as all hell, and really big. It takes getting used to, but sticking with your team and knowing when, and when NOT to push/flank/manuver will save your ass.

I would say it's certainly a better experience with a team. Rolling solo is painful. Play with a good group of friends and it'll be quite the badass experience.

[Skarlock]

The dire wolf is a slow glass cannon. Yes it's going to get abandoned and die sometimes. Yes it's hitboxes suck and you can either CT or rear CT the thing no matter how you twist. However, that's how the mech works. You have to be cautious when you play a dire, and commit only when you know you can win the trade, and it's worth making. A single mistake and you get wrecked when 3 or 4 mechs jump you and that's it, game over. Other faster, smaller mechs can make several mistakes in a match and come out relatively unscathed. Played well though, it's capable of bringing more firepower and heat sinks to a fight than any other mech in the game.

One thing I would suggest is learn to use gauss rifles. Saying they "aren't for you" is just a cop out on forcing yourself to acquire and master another skill in the game. The benefit of learning gauss doesn't just apply to the dire wolf though, it also applies to every clan mech that can mount one effectively. Timber Wolves, Ebon Jaguars, Hellbringers, and even Storm Crows have some of their best builds revolving around gauss + various energy weapons, because even if you are scorching high on heat, you can continue to get shots with the gauss till you're out of ammo. Range is a powerful tool for the dire to use to protect itself, as is damage that isn't heat dependent.

I struggled as well in a Dire but I now have a k/d ratio above 2.5, over 500 average damage per game, and a win ratio above 1.5 with my best dire, which is dual gauss, dual large pulse, 4 er med lasers, all in the arms. Those aren't amazing stats by any stretch, even for someone who only plays single queue, but I'm without question well above average player performance in that mech. If your stats are better than this, then I can't really see how you're struggling.

That being said, not every mech is for every player. Some mechs, no matter how well others do in them, you just won't enjoy playing, even if you force yourself to get good at them. I've gone through that myself with various different mechs (gar-d is probably my best example) and even though you can appreciate them for what they are, they just have something frustrating about them that kills enjoying the game for you. Play the mechs you enjoy, maybe come back to it later when you're not so frustrated. When you get frustrated at learning something, sometimes the worst thing you can do is keep banging your head against that wall because the game isn't fun any more.

[SolVali]

I imagine the Dire wolf would be brutal in an organised group, but in a pug, you really need a fast assault (64kph+) to keep up with the others.

Also, is there any point in torso twisting in a dire wolf? I try it, but either i'm not any good at it, or it's just slow to turn. I'm thinking the former.

[GroxGlitch]

I have to echo the sentiments of some other individuals here, the DWF can have a hard time in the PUG queues. In a vacuum, the Direwolf is a terrifying machine; it's got 50 tons worth of firepower to bring down on whatever is foolish enough to stand before it.

In practice, however, things are not that simple. Direwolves, tactically, are at an extreme disadvantage; they're slow, sluggish, and (rather counter-intuitively) extremely easy to bring down in a one-on-one fight if you are in anything even remotely faster than them.

They shine far better in a team environment, where everyone is functioning as a cohesive unit and can rally around them; given the right circumstances, a trio of Direwolves that are properly supported can be a force nigh unstoppable. But that's the thing, they form the centerpiece and anchor of a combat formation. But even in this circumstance, they are disadvantaged as they have no ability to fight any sort of 'maneuver' engagement; they have no ability to dictate the engagement due to their simple inability to get to the enemy! They're just one gear in the warmachine of MWO, so to speak.

So, perhaps consider dropping with a few friends in a PUG drop! If there's four of you, the rest of your lance can function as assistance for you and help screen flanker units off you, letting you focus on being that death-spitting whale of destruction your team needs. You need the rest of the gears, or you're just going to sit there and spin without going anywhere.

TL;DR
Most 'mechs are combat units. Direwolves are more of a... tactical asset, in a way. As a lone unit (and in a PUG game you're effectively 12 lone units thrown at 12 lone units) they're 100 tons of bad idea. With proper support and coordination, they're a force to be reckoned with.

[Koniving]

Take advantage of your lack of speed. Fight long range.

<.<
>.>

[ImperialKnight]

I like how OP explains the DWF at the same time he is complaining about it.

The ability to hose down enemy assault/heavies IS the point of the DWF. You don't go one-on-one with it in the face, you lose.

The balance? Slow as hell. Lights eat slow assaults, it's not unique to the DWF.

ERPPC builds. No...just... no. The DWF has too much tonnage for a sensible ERPPC build and ERPPC boating doesn't do much except for the LOLZ.

Dual UAC20s. 2 words: Ghost Heat.

Dual Gauss/ERPPC seems viable again after PPC speed increase

[unFearing]

Comfy Wedgie, on 29 July 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

Thank you for this, I'll whack on some S Omnipods and give jump jets a try!

I'm assuming if I do this that Prime still gets the money bonus? I think it does because it's attached to the center torso (unchangeable, right?)

Yes, if you have the Invasion Prime ( Prime(I) ) variant you get the money bonus.

[Comfy Wedgie]

Josef Koba, on 29 July 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

Edit 2: I can post my builds and a synopsis of how I play them if you want.

If it's not too much trouble for you I'm certainly interested in anything you have to offer and trying to rectify the misery I feel with my DWFs.

[InspectorG]

Comfy Wedgie, on 29 July 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

For all those that just want to say nothing is broken, everything is perfect please move along, I will not answer you nor waste my time arguing with you.

This is an expression of frustration looking to illicit comments pertaining to a similar experience and how it was overcome, if it was at all.

Get the adv. Seismic module. No mech needs it more than the whale.

POSITIONING IS LIFE TO THE ASSAULT! Particularly the whale. Just like 'speed is life' for the light.
Hard to camp and set a firing line unless the battle lines are drawn.
One eye ALWAYS on the radar, you need to be in the blob of blue doritos, if they leave you, start moving. map experience will tell you where most matches end up regardless.


Run a good build, i see people cram whatever on the Whale and suffer. 4UAC10, 2Gauss-2LPL-3/4ERML, Direstar(kidding but not...) Dont reinvent the wheel here. Stick to meta until you get goos with it then experiment.

You may need to run with a faster assault for a while. Warhawks, XLBanshees/Battlemasters(dont brawl-use the high mounts)
Or run a Stalker for a while.

Dire has a very punishing learning curve.

[Comfy Wedgie]

Josef Koba, on 29 July 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

Edit 2: I can post my builds and a synopsis of how I play them if you want.

If it's not too much trouble for you I'm certainly interested in anything you have to offer and trying to rectify the misery I feel with my DWFs.

[InspectorG]

Virarasa, on 29 July 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

Also, is there any point in torso twisting in a dire wolf? I try it, but either i'm not any good at it, or it's just slow to turn. I'm thinking the former.

You gotta turn your feet a little as well.

Works better with deadside builds.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

My jenner is the paper that covers your lone dire wolf's rock.

That's the reason my lights switch to fattie escort mode after I do my initial scouting. If I lose my assaults because the rest of my team herped the derp and left them, I lose the match.

Also... I think my oxide wrecked you the other day because your team left you behind. My advice? Back against a wall. I'm not gonna bug a dire wolf who can shoot at me. Yeah, I can probably get you but I'd take too much damage to make it worth the effort.

[The Flying Gecko]

Direwolf is high risk/reward

One mistake, and you're done. You can't reposition. You fall off a hill or something, and you aren't coming back.
You're almost always a big, slow, priority target. If you don't have friends/coms you will get singled out and killed.

It's the price you pay for all that firepower. I *rarely* use the dire-wolf in pugs, like you said it's just too slow and to high priority of a target. Everyone hit's "W" when the match starts, and nobody is slowing down because you can't keep up, lights harass your ass, and you either turn around and fight there whole team, or just get killed from behind.

Solution - Join a unit, use comms.
- Don't Direwhale in pugs.

[Comfy Wedgie]

Nyuuu, on 29 July 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

Well then excellent, we can close down this thread.

If I can do something like that in my inferior build on a not even mastered chassis I cant see in the slightest how you could have any problems or complaints with your superior Direwolf build and even moar ammo.

I got this 914 score on a DWF-B also whilst trying to master it; so not elited. I'm pretty sure I hadn't even made it to the speed tweak yet.

Doesn't change the fact that this was a one off and that the miserable experiences far outweighs the positive ones.

Also, this was achieved with the AC10s.
http://imgur.com/gallery/R71Fxiq

As for problems and complaints I have written numerous messages explaining them and not once did I consider this score to be relevant.