18 replies to this topic

[kosmos1214]

ok one of my favret battle mechs is the Rakshasa
and i got thinking what other IS knock offs are there of clan mechs i know
there's the black hawk but thats all i can think of so are there any others or just these 2?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rakshasa

http://www.sarna.net...i/Black_Hawk-KU

[Scout Derek]

Umm I think the IS battle armor standard is a knock off of the clans battle armor elemental, not too sure though.

[Heckbird]

There's also the Avatar which is the IS doppelganger of the Mad Dog.

[ChapeL]

In the way the OP means it, I can only think of the Rakshasa and Black Hawk KU.

Other designs like the Hauptmann have been inspired by clan mechs ( Dire Wolf ) but aren't direct translations attemps like the two above.

Edited by ChapeL, 18 July 2015 - 02:01 PM.

[kosmos1214]

well say the avatar fits the base config pretty much is a straight up copy of the maddog with some small consesions made
for IS tech

[ChapeL]

I didn't consider it because it carries an LB-X 10 and 2 machine guns on top of it. Which makes me think had they wanted to make a 70 tons Mad Dog doppleganger they could have removed the AC and MGs and put LRM 20s instead.

Speaking of which, I'd be curious to se how the MWO art team would handle that ugly thing

[Nathan Foxbane]

While not a clone, the Hollander was an IS attempt to duplicate the Kit Fox's A configuration.

The Ha Otoko was literally designed by Clan Diamond Shark so the IS could make a clone of it. The Draconis Combine did just that by replacing the engine and heat sinks with an XL and DHS respectively, the saved weight consumed by heavier IS weapons.

The O-Bakemono, for all intents and purposes, is the non-Omni clone of the Naga.

The Stiletto is a non-Omni Fire Falcon clone.

The Arctic Fox is a derived directly from the Kit Fox.

The Osiris is based on the Viper.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 18 July 2015 - 02:57 PM.

[SnagaDance]

Nathan Foxbane, on 18 July 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

While not a clone, the Hollander was an IS attempt to duplicate the Kit Fox's A configuration.

Afaik, the Hollander was an attempt to mount the only weapon that could compete with the Clan's range/damage advantage on as cheap a chassis as possible. No back-up weapon even. A kind of stop gap weaponsystem really.

[kosmos1214]

wow cool id forgotten about the arctic fox yah its an inner sphere kit fox all right

the stiletto and Osiris are new to me witch is surprising given the amount of time iv spent reading sarna

[B L O O D W I T C H]

The Raptor was the first IS omni'mech.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Raptor

While not a Knock off per se, since it isn't a copy of a single mech, it is still the first attempt to copy the omni'mech technic.

[Nathan Foxbane]

SnagaDance, on 19 July 2015 - 06:39 AM, said:

Afaik, the Hollander was an attempt to mount the only weapon that could compete with the Clan's range/damage advantage on as cheap a chassis as possible. No back-up weapon even. A kind of stop gap weaponsystem really.

And the irony being the Kit Fox A config offered the best heat efficient way to do so and ultimately inspired the weapon choice. Coventry Metal Works had to cut the backup weapon and armor from the original design to use the standard engine which keeps the 'Mech cheap (not including the gyro, an XL 175 for a 35 ton 'Mech costs almost 4 times more than a standard, increasing the cost of the 'Mech by almost 1.2 mil C-bills) and relatively safe from ammo explosions. The BZK-F5 Hollander II is a return to something closer to the original design specs at the cost of having the 'Mech weigh ten tons more.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 19 July 2015 - 04:56 PM.

[El Bandito]

Sunder. 90 ton Summoner/Hellbie.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Sunder

[kosmos1214]

El Bandito, on 20 July 2015 - 12:18 AM, said:

Sunder. 90 ton Summoner/Hellbie.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Sunder

that defiantly fits the bill its all most like a clone/franken mech combo that was mass produced

[VirtualSmitty]

Comstar straight up built Battle Cobras after Tukayyid though they had to build them with smaller engines to compensate for weight:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Battle_Cobra

[kosmos1214]

Precentor Martial Jarcaddy, on 08 August 2015 - 01:59 PM, said:

Comstar straight up built Battle Cobras after Tukayyid though they had to build them with smaller engines to compensate for weight:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Battle_Cobra

thanks i should have remembered this one

[RedDevil]

Precentor Martial Jarcaddy, on 08 August 2015 - 01:59 PM, said:

Comstar straight up built Battle Cobras after Tukayyid though they had to build them with smaller engines to compensate for weight: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Battle_Cobra

Oh those Clan Battle Cobras. The Primes especially were very munchkin like on the table top.

[Wrayeth]

RedDevil, on 09 August 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

Oh those Clan Battle Cobras. The Primes especially were very munchkin like on the table top.

I find it interesting that there's a subset of BattleTech players who think that any mech that doesn't suck horribly in some way is munchkin-like, and if said mech is outright good instead, that's munchkinism for sure. To those people, I say, "Not everyone shares your playstyle. Some of us don't like playing intro-tech/3025 games where firing even half of a mech's weapons causes it to overheat and/or explode. Instead we like playing games where most of our units are capable or even good. Yes, playing crappy mechs can be a fun challenge occasionally, but all-crappy-mechs-all-the-time is nothing more than a form of masochism."

That said, there are a few mechs out there that are just a bit too good (I'm looking at you, Vapor Eagle, with your speed and your jumping and your pulse lasers and your targeting computer).

Anyway, if this doesn't apply to you then please disregard.

Edited by Wrayeth, 09 August 2015 - 10:43 PM.

[SnagaDance]

It's mainly pulse laser mechs that get that name. A -2 modifier is a huge deal in a 2d6 based to-hit system as the to-hit chances aren't linear to begin with.

In this it also helps to compensate for actions like running and jumping, helping to keep your own to-hit numbers in a good range while making yourself harder to hit.

Add in a Targeting Computer and you're really stacking the odds.

In some way they feel like you're playing the system. If you consider the rules to truly be a reflection of weapons their battlefield performance (something which an esoteric system like BV clearly isn't, no battletech general has ever heard of BT), then pulse lasers tend to be superior to a lot of the other systems in terms of performance. Which should lead to an abundance of pulse laser mech designs as they are clearly the superior system.

Or to draw a real world comparison. Bolt action rifles were replaced by assault rifles because the latter is the superior system in most military engagements.

(regardles of the bolt action rifle having a far lower BV)

[RedDevil]

It's the Clan Large Pulse Laser running in pairs on a cheap platform, that can walk at the 5 hex modifier that makes that particular mech munchkin like. 2x CLPL breaks the 20dmg threshold for easy PSR rolls against your enemy almost every turn. Really it's BV's fault though. There's nothing wrong with good mechs as long as they face a roughly equal challenge. Tactics should win the day if that's balanced out correctly.

Also I'm a Clanner, so I will follow your advice and disregard the odd 3025 comment

Edited by RedDevil, 10 August 2015 - 12:01 PM.