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Most Weapon Quirks Less Than 15% Accomplish Nothing And Can Safely Be Ignored


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#1 Felio

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 01:16 PM

"Functionally zero" means a number is not zero, but it means zero for practical purposes.

Many quirks suffer from Hill Climb Module syndrome. Sure, they do something. Probably. They probably aren't bugged and do nothing. But the chances of them changing anything that happens on the battlefield are astronomical.

I don't just mean who wins or loses. I mean the exact number of shots hitting specific locations.

Small numbers probably work best for heat generation quirks because they accumulate over a firefight and the difference between 99% and 100% heat threshold is huge. Small cooldown quirks may matter occasionally.

All missile spread quirks are useless -- we have none of sufficient strength. Smaller quirks for range or projectile speed generally are useless, too.

Putting a number to this is difficult to do across the board, but I'd estimate that a handful of 10% quirks matter, but most less than 15% don't. Even some at 15% don't.

#2 Scout Derek

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 01:18 PM

*adds gauss cooldown to 15% gauss cooldown present*

OMG IT'S TOO OP PLS NERF TO 5%

#3 Mcgral18

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 01:25 PM

50% is the big one, since when you master it and add the module, it goes from 2x RoF to a full 3x RoF.


When you add +17% to anything smaller, it isn't nearly that significant, where it adds another 100% firepower.


Range at 10% is generally handy, while MG range at 10% is slightly above useless. Add in the module, and it becomes 20%.

Least useful...probably arm movement quirks. You can't add another 10-12% on it, and it's barely noticeable.

#4 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 01:28 PM

View PostFelio, on 30 July 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

"Functionally zero" means a number is not zero, but it means zero for practical purposes.

Many quirks suffer from Hill Climb Module syndrome. Sure, they do something. Probably. They probably aren't bugged and do nothing. But the chances of them changing anything that happens on the battlefield are astronomical.

I don't just mean who wins or loses. I mean the exact number of shots hitting specific locations.

Small numbers probably work best for heat generation quirks because they accumulate over a firefight and the difference between 99% and 100% heat threshold is huge. Small cooldown quirks may matter occasionally.

All missile spread quirks are useless -- we have none of sufficient strength. Smaller quirks for range or projectile speed generally are useless, too.

Putting a number to this is difficult to do across the board, but I'd estimate that a handful of 10% quirks matter, but most less than 15% don't. Even some at 15% don't.


Precisely why the only somewhat competitive IS heavy has 25+% quirks and why the Grasshopper and likely the BK are doomed to mediocrity.

Seriously, all we want is an IS heavy mech that is capable of trading laser vomit with a Timber Wolf at Clan laser vomit range. Why is that so much to ask? All it would really need is 12.5%-15% energy range, 12.5%-15% ML range (read: 25-30% ML range) and some 12.5-15% energy heat reduction. Then it might have a chance, but would still be outranged by the Timber.

#5 CtrlAltWheee

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 01:36 PM

When boating medium lasers I think the 10% is significant.

If 6 lasers do an extra 1 point of damage each due to extended range, that's 6 damage increase. Pretty significant per volley.

#6 Scout Derek

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 01:36 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 30 July 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:


Precisely why the only somewhat competitive IS heavy has 25+% quirks and why the Grasshopper and likely the BK are doomed to mediocrity.

Seriously, all we want is an IS heavy mech that is capable of trading laser vomit with a Timber Wolf at Clan laser vomit range. Why is that so much to ask? All it would really need is 12.5%-15% energy range, 12.5%-15% ML range (read: 25-30% ML range) and some 12.5-15% energy heat reduction. Then it might have a chance, but would still be outranged by the Timber.

Then you have modules to maybe, and I say maybe because I'm not too sure, to possibly get the range up that much more.

#7 Rear Admiral Tier 6

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 01:37 PM

grasshopper and the ams range quirk is really a slap in the face

#8 LordNothing

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 01:44 PM

i have a wvr-6r that has a pair of ac5s on it that fire faster than an ac2. mech gets 40% by itself. module brings that to 52%, and fast fire brings it up to 57%. ive had people get hit by those and brush it off as if thinking it was an ac2, only to find out a few shots later that was not. the problem isnt the quirks or the modules or the unlocks, its that all 3 stack together and give weapons and other hardware ridiculous performance.

i think the thing i dont like most about quirks is that it kind of locks you into an optimal loadout which really interferes with build design, you can do something else but its not as good. i think instead you need to make quirks into modules and give mechs that are lacking more slots. you might give those slots additional restrictions, for example you might have a slot that only accepts ballistic weapon modules which would be nice to have on cannon oriented builds that need help. you could also make modules top out at 20% in some cases and add a few extra levels (im running out of things to spend gxp on anyway).

this only applies to weapon quirks though, mech quirks can stay i suppose. they kinda help make different varients stand apart better. bu i suppose they could get the more slots + more modules treatment too.

Edited by LordNothing, 30 July 2015 - 01:49 PM.


#9 Tristan Winter

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 01:51 PM

View PostMcgral18, on 30 July 2015 - 01:25 PM, said:

50% is the big one, since when you master it and add the module, it goes from 2x RoF to a full 3x RoF.

Just to clarify, all percentage bonuses in the game, whether from quirks, skills or modules, are based on the base numbers of any given weapon / mech. Correct?

#10 Deathlike

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 01:51 PM

That 2% ROF MG increase on the Shadowcat is soooooo OP bro.

2%, like lowfat milk.

2.5% omnipod set XP too...

2% of the actual whines appear on the Paulconomist's desk... :ph34r:

#11 Mcgral18

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 01:55 PM

View PostTristan Winter, on 30 July 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

Just to clarify, all percentage bonuses in the game, whether from quirks, skills or modules, are based on the base numbers of any given weapon / mech. Correct?


Yes, base stats.

Then you add the quirks together and 1-quirk%=new cooldown.

#12 RedDevil

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 01:59 PM

Oh yes. The clan mg quirks are quite amusing.

#13 Deathlike

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 02:06 PM

4% MG Range on the Shadowcat...

4% SRM/LRM spread on the Arctic Cheetah

4% Cooldown increase+duration on the Doomcrow

4% of the time spent in a match is waiting for that match to happen (like all stats)

Next patch will have 4% more circle of life watching.

#14 Deathlike

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 02:13 PM

3% Missile Cooldown reduction on a Mist Lynx

3% Missile velocity increase on an Adder

3 variants required to basic out a mech

3 is a magic #

3rd time is the charm

Edited by Deathlike, 30 July 2015 - 02:14 PM.


#15 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 02:15 PM

View PostScout Derek, on 30 July 2015 - 01:36 PM, said:

Then you have modules to maybe, and I say maybe because I'm not too sure, to possibly get the range up that much more.


With modules and those range quirks, your medium lasers would have an optimum range of 378 m and your LLs would have an optimum range of 563 m, vs 445 m for the cER MLs and 660 for the cLPL, so you still have a slight range disadvantage but you have a slight duration advantage. I would actually be happy about that matchup, it would prove interesting and I don't think that it would be OP.

BK (XL 350) vs Timber (XL375)

57 dmg at 378 m vs 54 dmg at 445 m

45 (~39 with -12.5% energy heat generation) heat with 19 DHS vs 44 heat with 24 DHS

0.9-1.0s duration vs 1.12-1.15s duration

no JJs vs 2 JJs

I don't know guys, I think if it gets that heat generation quirk as well it might be still not as good... therefore I move to vote that it gets those quirks that I proposed + some durability and agility.

I think I am going to start a thread about this.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 30 July 2015 - 02:22 PM.


#16 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 03:16 PM

remember when most clan Quirks were +2% or -2%?
but they Stacked x2 maybe x3 if you where lucky,

then we got buffed to +3s and -3s,
thats how weaker Clans get buffed, :)

#17 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 03:21 PM

View PostAndi Nagasia, on 30 July 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

remember when most clan Quirks were +2% or -2%?
but they Stacked x2 maybe x3 if you where lucky,

then we got buffed to +3s and -3s,
thats how weaker Clans get buffed, :)


See post above comparing a heavily buffed IS mech to an unbuffed clan mech

#18 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 03:26 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 30 July 2015 - 03:21 PM, said:

See post above comparing a heavily buffed IS mech to an unbuffed clan mech

ah,... well,.... um,.... (add insult based on Bias, and horrible math, :) )

hopefully we will get a Glimpse of this New Mech balance soon,
Russ and Paul seem to be very very Confident but im not sure,

#19 Night Thastus

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 03:27 PM

You might think a 25% quirk isn't that bad, really. 25% cooldown? Who cares, right?

Then you add 5% for the elite skill.
Then you add 12.5% for the module.

Oh boy, suddenly it's 42.5% cooldown! How the **** did that happen?

Can you imagine what it's like when 'Mech have a 50% weapon cooldown quirk? It would be bad enough on it's own, but combined, it's absurd. They need to reign that **** under control.

#20 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 03:28 PM

View PostAndi Nagasia, on 30 July 2015 - 03:26 PM, said:

ah,... well,.... um,.... (add insult based on Bias, and horrible math, :) )

hopefully we will get a Glimpse of this New Mech balance soon,
Russ and Paul seem to be very very Confident but im not sure,


Where did I err in the maths? I did do it a bit quickly, but the point is, there is a reason IS mechs get buffed a lot more than Clan mechs do.





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