27 replies to this topic

[Ildar Jotun]

I've started playing MWO this week, I'm still learning the ropes and following the more experienced pilots to battle.

I've read in this forums that "the best" path for a beginner is buying a cheap-but-effective medium/heavy IS mech and master it before moving on.

Now, my question is: is it completely stupid starting in the clans, aiming for a Stormcrow and mastering it? Being 4 times more expensive, we're talking around 35million vs. 8million (Hunchback's on offer) for 3 variants.

Any piece of advice for a clanner wannabe?

Thank you

[The Basilisk]

If one is realistic, an 55 tonns IS Mech and a 55t Clan mech cost roughly the same .... in the end.
While the initial costs of IS mechs are lower you will have to upgrade it with double heat sinks, endo steel structure and maybe XL engine or an Artemis FLS. After upgrading and updating its weapons your IS Mech will cost nearly the same.

As for the Stormcrow itself I dare to say its the most dangerous medium in game, maybe with the shadowcat as its competitor.

The downside is you are essentialy learnig to play a cheese mech.

And your grind to master 3 chassis will take longer.

Edited by The Basilisk, 28 July 2015 - 12:23 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

for starters it is not 8 mil for the Hunchbacks, you will need to do about 2 million in upgrades (Double Heat Sinks, Endo Steel Internals, and you will probably also want a larger engine) on each Hunchback to get it to something like its best, so it is probably more like 14-16 million for the 3 Hunchbacks.

the Stromcrow is a very good Mech, but it will not teach you nearly as much as the Hunchback will, to do well with the Hunchy you need to learn to twist to spread damage, this is an exceptionally useful skill to have, but the Stormcrow is extremely durable due to amazing hitboxes, so it spreads damage well with little to no effort required.

also the Stormcrow is recognized as a big threat by most players, so you will get focus fired far more often in a Stromcrow as opposed to an IS Medium.

I am not saying do not use a Crow just be aware of those points

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 28 July 2015 - 12:24 AM.

[Motörhead]

The hunchie is also 35% off with the sales, with 10m you can get 4 of them, those available for cbills, then slowly upgrade and fit them.

Edited by Motörhead, 28 July 2015 - 12:30 AM.

[Ildar Jotun]

Thank you for sharing your experience

I was not aware of those points, frankly.

The NEED to upgrade IS mechs to stay competitive is reasonable in a battlefield full of clan tech. I managed a Hat Trick yesterday on my first day fighting with a trial Griffin. I was pretty sure that was pure luck, but now I know it was great luck, doing it in a standard 'mech.

More troublesome is the fact that being a bullet magnet is the last thing I want when starting out... any advice for a clan chassis that's good for a start and not so "attractive"?

[The Basilisk]

Ildar Jotun, on 28 July 2015 - 12:43 AM, said:

Thank you for sharing your experience

I was not aware of those points, frankly.

The NEED to upgrade IS mechs to stay competitive is reasonable in a battlefield full of clan tech. I managed a Hat Trick yesterday on my first day fighting with a trial Griffin. I was pretty sure that was pure luck, but now I know it was great luck, doing it in a standard 'mech.

More troublesome is the fact that being a bullet magnet is the last thing I want when starting out... any advice for a clan chassis that's good for a start and not so "attractive"?

Clanmechs are ( with some few exceptions ) mostly higher priority targets than IS mechs.
So you either get a performant clan chassis and be a high priority target or you get a slightly weaker clan chssis and still be a higher priority target than most IS mechs.
Clan mechs are not exactly mechs for newcommers.
Your heatload is higher, so you will have to be more disciplined about your weapons usage and your battlefield awareness has to be higher cause you are more likely to be focused.
Additionaly the biggest advantage of Clanmechs is their weapons range and the lower weapons weight.

[Jumping Gigolo]

Being "attractive" or "being a bullet magnet" is very subjective as it all depends on how you play. The real "attractive bullet magnet" is a mech,regardless of tonnage" who wanders off from the group; walking in the open as if it was basking under the Tourmaline sun. Regardless if its a Stormcrow or a Hunchie, you will get focused by all enemies when they see you separate from the rest of your group. Even if you are in an Urbanmech the enemies will not discriminate you for other targets; as long you wander off/YOLO and walk out in the open as long you are in their firing line they will just shoot you non-stop.

===

going back to topic which is about starting to Clans:


Stormcrow is the best starter Clan mech and the most cost-effective Clan mech. Besides that the Stormcrow is a very excellent Omni-mech which can be build into any kind of roles. You will need to spend around 12 -14M C-bills for buying 1 stromcrow (with all necessary omnipods and weapons) and another 15M for radar deprivation module (6M), advanced seismic sensor module (6M), and a weapon module of your choice (3M).

Trust me it's all worth it you will never regret buying a Stormcrow.

[STEF_]

Also don't think that IS mechs are less expensive. You need to upgrade engine, endo, ferro, so lights and medium can result very expensive.

Thunders don't want an xl to do well, they have good quirks, that's why they are good, above all at the beginning.

[Anunknownlurker]

I would agree completely with Jumping Gigolo. The Stormcrow is about the most forgiving Clan medium and I don't see a problem with a new player aiming for it. Play cagey at first, never be alone. Be sneaky and look at the mech, it's nasty, it lurks; it's all hunched up like a killer zombie. Play it like it looks!

Good luck out there

[Ildar Jotun]

Thank you all for all the great information. I've decided on piloting the Stormcrow after seeing your points.

See you on the field of battle! (and please, don't stomp on me very hard if you're on the other team! )

[Jumping Gigolo]

Stormcrow is an ugly-looking mech with skinny legs but it's powerful and fast like Latrell Sprewell and Allen Iverson. It's ugly looking like Patrick Ewing that it scares any mech within its weight category. Even heavies are scared getting outbrawled and harassed by an aggressive stormcrow.

Try the 5x Streak6, 5x SRM-6 artemis, or the 6x MPL builds.

Then after a month come back here and tell us if you don't enjoy piloting that ugly badass killer.

Edited by Jumping Gigolo, 28 July 2015 - 02:26 AM.

[Rhavin]

The nice thing about clan mechs is there is less to change on them, you can't add or remove anything but Artemis FCS, and omnipods/weapons. Upgradeing an inner sphere mech is often mind blowing and expensive, so many choices, and only a few of them actually any good. Do you use endo? Is your engine enough? Clan tech is more forgiving imho, you have x amount of pod space for armor, computers/sensors, weapons, ammo and heat sinks and that is it. You are not getting anymore and not using it all on those things does not leave you any options for adding speed by upgrading your engine or adding jump jets. (Edited a glaring typo cause I felted like un idiot with it on dere)

Edited by Rhavin, 28 July 2015 - 04:12 AM.

[Lily from animove]

well, I would say as beginner get a clanemch, SCR or TBR, the omnimecability will help you to also get used to various loadouts without having to buy an entire new mech (just the pods) and you don't have to worry about engine min/maxing.

Those mechs will be a good base for getting further money you can spend on whatever mech you like.
A small suggeston would be not to buy a prime SCR, instead play the trial prime SCR and a non prime SCR, this allows you to collect XP for two different chassis. Since the money grind will mostlikely be longer than the XP grind. and once you can buy a SCR prime you can instantly level it up.

Edited by Lily from animove, 29 July 2015 - 01:09 AM.

[Nayonac]

Now you have decided on the crow you might consider going with something like this
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b17ebb1976babc3

Using your arm as a shield and use a bigger mech as your meat shield
Once they fire at the big boy, get in and rip an arm or a leg off and get back into cover.

the advantage to this load out is that all your weapons are at the same range so no need to know what buttons etc, it will be all or nothing and you have the shield arm to teach you to torso twist.

[Jalthibuster]

You might also become a better IS pilot regarding laser builds if you try Clan mechs. Clan lasers need more skill to hold on target because of the longer burn duration. That might help when you play IS again.

Storm Crow is definitely a great mech to go. It might be easier to play than some other clan mechs but i think it takes some time to learn this game anyway, so no need to start with the even more difficult stuff.

[JC Daxion]

Personally, i think starting with a Stormcrow or timber is a very bad idea. And most likely to make players hate the game and leave..


1, You are a priority target, any player will target them first, heck they target them before assaults most of the time as they are easier to kill, and often more dangerous because of their speed.. On top of that Many people including myself just love to kill them, just because they are considered great mechs. You wan't them out of the game as fast as possible, and as a new player that is the last thing you want..

2, for the price of 3 Hunchbacks, You get one, SC.. Pretty much your cadet bonus will practically get you all 3 of your HBK's and almost fully outfitted and upgraded.. (just swap one STD250 around between the 3 while you level.

3.. The number one complaint about this game is learning curve and grind... And unlocking elites, is a huge buff to your mech.. So while a new player trys to grind out the 33 million c-bills to get 3 SC's.. just to know what a working mech feels like, they burn out from being killed first all the time, and end up complaining about how is this considered the best mech in the game.

4, Seeing you are playing one of the better mechs, there is nothing left to look forward to, and playing the so called lesser mechs, you will have to relearn all over again if you pick up anything other than a handful of mechs as they are pretty much crutch mechs, in all but the highest level of competition when everyone is pretty much running the same stuff.

Lastly.. for the cost of 3 crows, you could of gotten 3 HBK's, outfitted, and picked up a seismic module, radar deprivation, and an info gathering.. A great set of modules you will use on anything, and have mastered 3 great mechs, learned the game, and i would have to say a much better experiance, as most of that time you will be running mastered mechs,, not trying to grind through 250 matched just to get your first mastered mech..

that is my 2-cents..

[Ildar Jotun]

Just an update:

After the first 25 battles in the stock Griffin, I followed the advice from Lily and jumped in the trial Stormcrow (C variant, with LB-10X, LPL and 2MPL). I've come to some conclusions:

- This 'mech packs a nice punch, is very sturdy, and also very maneuverable. I can see the buzz is justified. I managed to drop 4 'mechs and pass 400dmg in one match. I don't think I've come close to 200dmg with the Griffin in the first 25 battles.
- I miss the jump jets.
- This is a game of "flocks". I now see 'Mechs as sheep. If you take any kind of initiative by yourself and leave the flock, there's a good chance you're gonna find the wolf (the other flock) and then you're toast. I saw that many times in the beginner guides and videos, but I guess you have to find for yourself to realize.
- As Jumping Gigolo said in ths thread: while I was "in the flock" I didin't find miself focused or being a bullet magnet. You get the attention when you leave the flock or when you become a nuisance more than other 'mechs in your group.
- I have a lot to learn about positioning and tactics.
- I've narrowed my decision on the 'mech version: (C is out because I can get experience for it for free)
- B - I love big autocannons. Bad thing about it is this version needs some adjustments. I don't like having all my weapons in the arms. I think a couple of the lasers can be moved to the torsos.
- Prime - Seems a good all-arounder.

JC, thanks for your answer, I see your points are valid and solid. On the other hand, I wonder if and when I'm piloting those Hunchbacks, I'll feel l'm piloting something "underpowered" (I know it's not, but a I'm very old school, board game mechwarrior, and also quite a bit min-maxer). Then there's the Hunchback top speed. It's basically a medium heavy/assault mech. You can't be very creative when it comes to moving around, and you can't get out of an ambush. I'll risk going with the SC, as I think I'll get to know the maps better with it.

[Lily from animove]

JC Daxion, on 28 July 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

Personally, i think starting with a Stormcrow or timber is a very bad idea. And most likely to make players hate the game and leave..


1, You are a priority target, any player will target them first, heck they target them before assaults most of the time as they are easier to kill, and often more dangerous because of their speed.. On top of that Many people including myself just love to kill them, just because they are considered great mechs. You wan't them out of the game as fast as possible, and as a new player that is the last thing you want..

2, for the price of 3 Hunchbacks, You get one, SC.. Pretty much your cadet bonus will practically get you all 3 of your HBK's and almost fully outfitted and upgraded.. (just swap one STD250 around between the 3 while you level.

3.. The number one complaint about this game is learning curve and grind... And unlocking elites, is a huge buff to your mech.. So while a new player trys to grind out the 33 million c-bills to get 3 SC's.. just to know what a working mech feels like, they burn out from being killed first all the time, and end up complaining about how is this considered the best mech in the game.

4, Seeing you are playing one of the better mechs, there is nothing left to look forward to, and playing the so called lesser mechs, you will have to relearn all over again if you pick up anything other than a handful of mechs as they are pretty much crutch mechs, in all but the highest level of competition when everyone is pretty much running the same stuff.

Lastly.. for the cost of 3 crows, you could of gotten 3 HBK's, outfitted, and picked up a seismic module, radar deprivation, and an info gathering.. A great set of modules you will use on anything, and have mastered 3 great mechs, learned the game, and i would have to say a much better experiance, as most of that time you will be running mastered mechs,, not trying to grind through 250 matched just to get your first mastered mech..

that is my 2-cents..

1. I do not agre here, a SCR is due to its quickness and hitboxes hard to kill, it will between other emchs on the field not be a prime target, because prime targets are emchs that are easy to kill to quickly drain firepower from the enemy team.
People shoot at you to scare you off and force you into cover in firts palce.

2. if you properly upgde the hunchback, its nearly as expensive as a SCR. and a STD 250 hunchback, well, hunchies die so quick, they are so slow. They are easier to take out mechs and would prime target them over a SCR, mostly because HBK's akc more dps due to cooler lasers. Takign them out first is often the better choice.

3. a single SCR even with basic skills exceeds already many other mechs in performance, If you need to max the skills (only reaosn to have 3) to make it a "working" mech I wonder how you play, SCR is a superior working mech even without any mechskills unlocked. And If you really get kileld firts in this emch cosntantly, you are doing soemthign wrong, you have one of the high end, most nimble, most fastest mediums available with firepower en masse, How you amange to die first, is beyong my understanding.


4. Wrong, Just because you used and startet with the best does not mean ther eis nothign to look forward, strange way to play a game, especially MWO where we have many different mechs with various wepaon laodouts and designs. Someoen bored with MWO, unless hes a ego stroking statistic maxing palyer, will just choose the emch he lieks by design and work and master it. But for a newbie thats a bad advice.

Ildar Jotun, on 29 July 2015 - 01:03 AM, said:

Just an update:

After the first 25 battles in the stock Griffin, I followed the advice from Lily and jumped in the trial Stormcrow (C variant, with LB-10X, LPL and 2MPL). I've come to some conclusions:

- This 'mech packs a nice punch, is very sturdy, and also very maneuverable. I can see the buzz is justified. I managed to drop 4 'mechs and pass 400dmg in one match. I don't think I've come close to 200dmg with the Griffin in the first 25 battles.
- I miss the jump jets.
- This is a game of "flocks". I now see 'Mechs as sheep. If you take any kind of initiative by yourself and leave the flock, there's a good chance you're gonna find the wolf (the other flock) and then you're toast. I saw that many times in the beginner guides and videos, but I guess you have to find for yourself to realize.
- As Jumping Gigolo said in ths thread: while I was "in the flock" I didin't find miself focused or being a bullet magnet. You get the attention when you leave the flock or when you become a nuisance more than other 'mechs in your group.
- I have a lot to learn about positioning and tactics.
- I've narrowed my decision on the 'mech version: (C is out because I can get experience for it for free)
- B - I love big autocannons. Bad thing about it is this version needs some adjustments. I don't like having all my weapons in the arms. I think a couple of the lasers can be moved to the torsos.
- Prime - Seems a good all-arounder.

JC, thanks for your answer, I see your points are valid and solid. On the other hand, I wonder if and when I'm piloting those Hunchbacks, I'll feel l'm piloting something "underpowered" (I know it's not, but a I'm very old school, board game mechwarrior, and also quite a bit min-maxer). Then there's the Hunchback top speed. It's basically a medium heavy/assault mech. You can't be very creative when it comes to moving around, and you can't get out of an ambush. I'll risk going with the SC, as I think I'll get to know the maps better with it.

Well, you need to know the maps very very well, and you need many many games 100+ in your mech to have palyed all the maps often enough. Only this will give you enough knowledge when and where you cna shoot with which hardpoints over which environment by only exposing a minimum amount of mech. This is what then makes you squeeze out the true stength of a mech.
Minumum exposue, unlaod wepaons, hide again. The classic boardgame, mechs in front of eahc other shooting at eahc other is not working in MWO, because people are too accurate and you will die too quickly. avoiding damage is the most important for MWO in medium mechs. Thei speed is to low to make them speed tnak as lights, and their armor/interals are too low to make them eat damage while shooting things to crap. Only a twisting SCR cna do this quite well ebcause of the way it's hitboxes are making it hard to put fire in a single location.

[JC Daxion]

Lily from animove, on 29 July 2015 - 01:25 AM, said:

completely disagree's with everything i said..

We all have opinions does not make one right or wrong.. but that's just the way i see it, after reading tons of complaints, and seeing tons of questions on the forums.. But you did make a few points i would like to address..

an HBK is about 5m + 1 engine, an SCR is 11m, So half way to your next SCR, you will have 3 fully outfitted and upgraded HBK's.. and that price is just over what you get with cadet bonus. That's about equal too 1 and 1/3 SCR's, and a few million more will give you lots of weapons to play around with. Now it is different if you factor in modules, then they come out close as they have extra slots, but we are talking newbie builds. And with the sale going on, you can get um for 2.5m each, that is a killer deal for a new player starting right now, especially with the free premium time.

You also said it, SCR's are fast, nimble, and have good hit-boxes.. that means that you can rely on that, verse making good choices, using good twist tactics. Those mechs will cover up bad play, there is no doubt about it. Also one of the more popular are the laser vomit set up, (the typical SCR you see all the time), that you basically only need to manage heat, Not learn to use/conserve ammo, making every shot count. they also do a lot of damage spread and people with not so hot aim are at a disadvantage in that regard. I know i fair much better using heavier shorter duration weapons. Like Medium pulse.. something i have been using for almost 2 years, before they become in style, as they fit my play style. So a long duration of the typical SCR build can be hard for new players to use.

How new players die first even in an SCR? They are new players, that is not to hard to see. Heck i have been known to make a bad choice and die first, it happens. But I don't like putting a bullseye on their head on top of it.

Lastly, i don't always play Top teir one mechs.. In fact many mechs i play in the 50 i own, many unlocking elites helped a ton, and made it feel like an entire new mech.


To me the HBK teaches you way more about the game, because you can't rely on speed or favorable hit-boxes and the weapons are not over powered but certainly can dish it out. HBK's actually dish really well, they just run hot, so Plus 1 to learning about heat management and weapon grouping . There is also an HBK flavor for every single weapon set up. You can use AC5's, 10's, 20's large lasers, medium, pulse, PPC's gauss, SRM's and LRMs, even machine guns, so you can really get a feel for every weapon in the game and not using a chasis that isn't optimized for them. You have to protect your hunch which means learn the twist, and now with the armor bonuses, they really stand up pretty darn well when using arms to tank. But even after at times i will use that bonus armor to tank damage, now the hunch can be an asset.

No JJ's means you need to really learn the maps, though that can be a minus in some ways. But what i like best is most people underestimate them, and when you underestimate a good HBK pilot, you are dead.. period. You don't say look at that SCR and think is that a threat? You kill it, and then think.. ohh must of been a newbie, cause that was really easy,, as they sit there and face time you or over estimate the ability to get away.



It was the exact advice i got from tons of people when i started playing, and i don't regret it at all, It taught me tons about the game, and i don't see why that would be any different now. But then you are talking to the guy that played his first 100 matches in a dragon 5N, with a pair of Large lasers, and a gauss with an XL...

If you are the kinda player that can sit down and play 100 games in a weekend and a die hard clanner.. sure go for the Scr if you want.. But it is a big grind, and then will add a huge grind to try other play styles, with other weapons down the road.



OP: good luck, I hope you can stick with it, and enjoy it in the end.. And lets hope the august re-balance doesn't through you for to big of a loop

Edited by JC Daxion, 29 July 2015 - 10:53 PM.

[Ildar Jotun]

JC Daxion, on 29 July 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

OP: good luck, I hope you can stick with it, and enjoy it in the end.. And lets hope the august re-balance doesn't through you for to big of a loop

The more I play, the more I like it, and I see this is a long lasting, steep learning curve game. It also demands patience, so I'm definetly stepping in. I'm not in a hurry so, maybe I'll buy a couple variants of the hunchback just to have fun with it and try IS 'mechs for a change. At 2.5mil. a pop, it's hard not to get them.

I finally bought the Stormcrow yesterday, B variant with UAC-20. It's a fun machine but it's also not a win-button for noobs, in fact I had quite a bad day yesterday with quite a handful of battles under 100 damage and diying like a champ in the first 3 minutes... n00b!! lol.

About the balancing passes you suggest... it's part of online games, and I would say it's even more important in a game where monetization comes from desiring the most powerful 'mechs on the store. I wouldn't be surprised if things change, I just hope changes are not game-breaking and "good" 'mechs rendered obsolete.

Anyway, I decided investing in the developers too, and yesterday I bought the Actic Cheetah "preorder". Prices for 'mechs are (in my opinion) extremely expensive and deterring, so this is more a "I bought the game" contribution than a 'mech purchase per se.
It's a nice little 'mech that Cheetah. I bought it over other designs because in my extensive espectator time I have seen people do amazing things in it. Namely, KalTorak18 is an ace, congrats, man!
I know lights are very demanding, but they're also very fun to play and steep learning curves are very motivational

Excuse me for derailing my own thread and thank you for all the great info guys, you rock