52 replies to this topic

[Kodyn]

Ok, so I'm sure this has been brought up by someone, but it's not front page, and it's starting to get to me, so..

What is up with Assault currently? No turrets now means the default tactic is just to base rush, which while fair game, has always made for boring gameplay, except in cases where the other team can actually respond and it leads to a nice fight. This new version however pretty much guarantees boring gameplay, and low CBill rewards...For completing the actual objective...

Now I can't tell people how to play...I certainly wish everyone had CBills on the mind and realized that an Assault win by cap now actually nets you LESS CBills than a loss where you output some damage, maybe killed a mech or two.

I realize that not everyone's smart enough to notice this, and I also realize that a lot of people are, and simply don't need/want the CBills, so they they just do it for the win. But c'mon now, really?

We all wait however long in queue, which granted, usually isn't that long if you aren't in a heavy, but it's long enough that when you get a drop, it's nice to actually get a good fight, you know, shoot some robots, and make money. But then the reward for the tactically sound move of taking the enemy base unmolested is something in the range of 40-50k..

So in essence, players can't be expected to choose a tactic that makes more CBills or creates more exciting gameplay, because they have that choice now, and generally just choose the easy win, even if it's less profitable than a loss...

So PGI, can we maybe get some higher rewards for the cap then? Either that or the turrets back, which I'd never heard of anyone asking to be removed, to begin with...to discourage players from the "easy" way out, and wasting the drop?

I don't know about everyone else, can't speak for 'em, but I sure play to shoot stuff, and a match that's nothing but each team rushing to the other side of the map as fast as possible and then sitting for a couple of minutes to receive the most paltry reward possible seems like a waste of my gaming time.

Now I know I can check Assault off, and just take the hit to searching times, but that's not the point. Why have a mode in the game that's now become just Skirmish with a way around the actual skirmish, for practically no reward? Even as it was with the turrets, at least it took a bit to clear them, gave the OPFOR time to respond and cause a fight at the base...now it's just over once a few mechs get there...and sit...and sit...

I guess gameplay could evolve and players start doing more base-camping as a result...but they're not. In fact the first little while after the turrets were gone, I had some exciting matches in a light where I would rush enemy base, cause them all to turn and respond, let my team know, and they'd push into their rear, resulting in much fun fighting. As time has passed however, I've seen less and less of that, to the point where now everyone just follows the light and caps the base rather than bother to actually fight...

Forget mechs, why don't we just bring dirt bikes to Assault matches if we aren't going to fight anyway? It's just become a race to 40k...60-70k if you manage to see an enemy mech on the way or suicide yourself into them in frustration at your team.

I dunno, am I completely off here, or what? Am I the only one that finds watching an entire team of armored, heavily-armed mechs race to a red dot and do nothing for no money kinda crazy? And the best part is, while I want to blame the players for making the choice, they are in fact just completing the objective, so...

(For PGI's perspective, this is the only game mode where I hope fervently for a loss every time, because I'm almost guaranteed to make twice the CBills on the loss than a win by cap...it's that backwards.)

[Moomtazz]

Can't please everyone. I like it with the turrets removed. NASCAR only occurs in about 85% of the matches now, instead of the usual 99.999%

[Kodyn]

I'm seeing 100% base cap by one side or the other in the last 4-5 days. A fight may start, but then the cap happens, everyone scrambles, and it's over.

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not a problem....as with every topic ever on these boards...

It's still an issue that the mode has become so pointless by removing the turrets, and the reward being what it is. Please don't downplay that with the usual, "I like it, must not be a problem.." arguments. When the reward for a WIN by objective is that low, it's a problem with the mode, not player opinion.

[Alistair Winter]

Apparently, PGI is working on a new, asymmetrical Assault mode. Assault mode is basically a placeholder right now. Maybe it always was, I forget.

PGI does need help with the game modes, but they have proved to be extremely uninterested in feedback from the fans. The archives are filled to the brim with ideas for game modes. They never even made the slightest of impact.

You can say that the players were able to influence CW, but it seems to me like Invasion mode changes were made after PGI looked at their own statistics more than anything. If PGI had really listened to player feedback for Invasion mode, they would have made some bigger changes than putting up some O-gens with walls around them, I can tell you that.

So just hang in there and wait for the new Assault mode. I pray it's better than Invasion mode, even though it's apparently going to be somewhat similar.

[Kodyn]

You're unfortunately probably all too right Alistair, and we can only blame ourselves.

As a community, I have literally no idea why the devs would want to listen to us at all, when we can manage to disagree 100% on nearly every topic that involves anything about this game. I keep trying just in case some of it gets through, because for some odd reason I still love this game, and want to see it do well and grow, but if I was Russ, I wouldn't want to read any of our mess either.

TBH, and back on topic, I'd like to see anything that improves on the pointless, CBill-less cap race we have right now. Even a 40-50k increase in win-by-cap...if I have to go with that flow, at least let me make some CBills. Or discourage it again with turrets, base defenses of some kind, to at least provide some other options for gameplay besides "Skirmish and lose our base", or "Cap and make no money." It just makes zero sense as is.

[HollowBassman]

The problem with the assault game mode isn't the game mode itself but the stupid people playing it.

It is set up like most team sports having two teams on a field and each having a goal. If everyone just blindly attacked the opponents goal in football, basketball, soccer, hockey, etc. they would be just as boring. Luckily, in those sports, players are smart enough to DEFEND their own goal.

Think of momentum or kill lead as a ball and adjust according to whichever team has it.

[Jeffrey Wilder]

TS, you can actually skip selecting 'ASSAULT' mode in case you ain't aware of that.

Assault mode with turrets is similar to Skirmish if you ask me. At least that's what happened in the past 99% of the time with turrets.

[TWIAFU]

Jeffrey Wilder, on 02 August 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

TS, you can actually skip selecting 'ASSAULT' mode in case you ain't aware of that.

Assault mode with turrets is similar to Skirmish if you ask me. At least that's what happened in the past 99% of the time with turrets.

Conquest = Skirmish with the option to play Conquest. Either mode will be wrong choice.
Assault = Skirmish with the option to play Assault. Either mode will be wrong choice.
Skirmish = Skirmish without the option of Conquest or Assault. Best choice for least amount of frustration.

[InspectorG]

Kodyn, on 02 August 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

Ok, so I'm sure this has been brought up by someone, but it's not front page, and it's starting to get to me, so..

What is up with Assault currently? No turrets now means the default tactic is just to base rush, which while fair game, has always made for boring gameplay, except in cases where the other team can actually respond and it leads to a nice fight.

This is because Pugs are by nature, stupid and unorganized.

No Pug naturally thinks to defend, but they will come to the forum to cry.

Think about it, players are so programmed to run to the center and fight. No enemy? Base rush before they rush us.

Fast units rush, slow get left behind...everyone knows this.

No one EVER thinks to only advance 1/3rd to the center to roll the fast rushers to get an early/easy numbers advantage.

No one thinks to hide behind the base to surprise leg the 2-3 lights that rush, cap, then AFK.

DAT. Pug. Life.

[Kodyn]

Jeffrey Wilder, on 02 August 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

TS, you can actually skip selecting 'ASSAULT' mode in case you ain't aware of that.

Assault mode with turrets is similar to Skirmish if you ask me. At least that's what happened in the past 99% of the time with turrets.

I actually stated that in my original wall of text, in case you ain't aware of that.

[Mystere]

TWIAFU, on 02 August 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

Conquest = Skirmish with the option to play Conquest. Either mode will be wrong choice.
Assault = Skirmish with the option to play Assault. Either mode will be wrong choice.
Skirmish = Skirmish without the option of Conquest or Assault. Best choice for least amount of frustration.

That's funny because I have Skirmish deselected.

HollowBassman, on 02 August 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

The problem with the assault game mode isn't the game mode itself but the stupid people playing it.

It is set up like most team sports having two teams on a field and each having a goal. If everyone just blindly attacked the opponents goal in football, basketball, soccer, hockey, etc. they would be just as boring. Luckily, in those sports, players are smart enough to DEFEND their own goal.

Think of momentum or kill lead as a ball and adjust according to whichever team has it.

This gives you an idea on just how smart the players are in MWO.

[Elizander]

Removing the turrets was bad. I had to uncheck Assault for the sake of my sanity.

[oneproduct]

The turrets did not work as base defense. If a handful of mechs wanted to take the base and there was no one there, they'd destroy the turrets in seconds and take minimal damage.

If the turrets were there to assist mechs defending the base, then the attackers would just go deathball the rest of the team in the middle of the map instead of attacking the base, so in that case turrets were useless again and encouraged poor behavior in players by encouraging them to camp.

What the turrets did do was shoot LRMs half way across the map when no enemy was even near to the base, which they had no business doing.

It also made light mechs less useful because they couldn't stand on base to trigger the warning message and make a few enemy mechs march back with the potential of a capture defeat.

Assault mode overall is foolish, which is why they are going to replace it with a proper attack/defend mode apparently. It doesn't make sense for both teams to have a base with defenses, as unlike in soccer or basketball like someone else referenced, this is not a game where people can easily run back and forth from one goal to the other, so playing both offense and defense doesn't work.

Conquest is much better because the points of interest are actually on the battlefield, in areas where there's a reasonable expectation for you to want to fight. Even then in some maps the conquest points are in really stupid places.

Edited by oneproduct, 02 August 2015 - 08:14 AM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

I love no turrets assault. Let me describe one of my adventures in my Nova on Crimson Straight.

Spoiler

-Team moves in to smash face against other team.

-I sneak off into the water and head to wrap around the island for cover.

-I see a gauss Ebon Jaguar.

-I start fight against Ebon Jaguar.

-I experience severe lagspike.

-I stare angrily at the frozen-in-place Jaguar, knowing he is lining up a free shot on me.

-Lagspike resolves and I take the free shot to the CT.

-I kill the Ebon Jaguar.

-I head for enemy base.

-I get attacked by enemy firestarter.

-I shoot enemy firestarter with high alpha.

-Enemy firestarter runs away and never comes back.

-I head towards the enemy base again.

-I sit on base.

-Adder rounds the corner and alphas me.

-I alpha Adder in the CT. Adder dies.

-I sit some more.

-Cicada rounds the corner while I'm typing.

-Panic, press a bunch of wrong buttons, then recover.

-Attack cicada.

-Cicada takes cover.

-Enemy Nova shows up.

-I Split my fire between Nova and Cicada.

-I kill enemy Nova because he is too slow and didn't bring a brawler build.

-I kill enemy Cicada with a well placed shot to his cored CT.

-I have a cherry red CT.

-I go and sit on base again.

-We win by kills.

-The end

[Raggedyman]

If "everyone" is doing a NASCAR then get your team to wait at your base and butcher them all in a nice ambush.

And if it ain't working for ya then take it out of your game rotation.

[Throat Punch]

I sit back and defend the base from the incoming onslaught of light and medium mechs that rush to capture. I know it is going to be certain death, but I at least try to slow them down and get some damage on the OPFOR. Sometimes, just sometimes, I get a couple people who see me hanging back and they hang back too, so we mount the best defense we can. in about 40% of matches our meager defense is enough to give our team the chance to cap and win.

[Rebas Kradd]

Kodyn, on 02 August 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

I'm seeing 100% base cap by one side or the other in the last 4-5 days. A fight may start, but then the cap happens, everyone scrambles, and it's over.

So scout. And split up your team. Use tactics.

Everyone wants gamemodes with real tactics and then won't play them.

Although I'd like greater rewards, too.

[MechWarrior849305]

Don't want to be outcapped - don't play cap modes

Edited by DuoAngel, 02 August 2015 - 10:44 AM.

[Kodyn]

The fact that a game mode exists that is flawed was my point...but as usual, having a productive conversation on these forums is akin to ramming your head into a brick wall. It's the exact same situation as in game...try anything intelligent, people's brains explode. Have a decent conversation about a game flaw? Everyone states the obvious and ignores the point.

Yes, I can not play assault.

Yes, I can magically make my team grow a brain stem and listen to sane tactical advice.

Yes, I can just not play the damn game at all.

All not the point at all.

To the few of you who were intelligent enough to get the point, thank you for your contributions. The placeholder mode thing makes sense, and I sincerely have hopes for what the future holds for a better version of assault.

I'm going to consider this a dead topic because this community makes me angrier and sadder than I want to let a game make me, and I need to walk away and just go shoot robots...

Edited by Kodyn, 02 August 2015 - 10:56 AM.

[Jman5]

Bad assault matches and low earnings are entirely the fault of the losing team. Imagine for a moment you were playing a game of basketball and while on defense your entire team just sat at mid-court while the team dribbled past them for an undefended lay up.

That's effectively what losing teams are doing when they get easily cap rushed. They're running in directions that create completely uncontested lanes straight to their base. In fact many times teams will actively push the opponents toward their own base. They're giving the other team a free win and then get mad when enemy team is taking it.

I'm all for increasing earnings on caps, but people need to give positioning a modicum of thought when they play. Assault mode is legitimately fun if people stop pretending the bases don't exist.

Edited by Jman5, 02 August 2015 - 11:45 AM.