10 replies to this topic

[AlphaToaster]

As the title states, since the spawn locations have been moved farther back inside the base, this means changes have to be made to adapt. PGI buffed the drop ships but I think we can agree those give a false sense of security.

What I am seeing when I drop in CW is the enemy premade teams making the same mistakes that solo pugs are making.

The defending teams best asset are the gate choke points. If you give up the gates without a concerted plan to defend another location (aka in an organized group following another strat), then giving up the gate you're effectively giving up the match.

This concerns me because not defending the gate in anyway on CW, is much like spreading to the 4 winds in skirmish mode in the regular queue, the death ball WILL destroy your team.

The goal of this post is to get players thinking about mech speed as it relates to mech selection when choosing their drop decks. And when it's best to select the next mech based on speed, where the fight is, and what role needs to be filled.

TL:DR: If you can't make it to the gate fast enough to defend it the first wave, your mech is probably too slow. Take a mech that is fast enough to defend the gates at the beginning of the game or plan a heavier defense as a team in another grid. Since planning and following strats is difficult for pugs, I recommend just bringing a faster mech.

Edited by AlphaToaster, 04 August 2015 - 03:28 PM.

[Deathlike]

Speed is not important if you're fighting around a structure. Firepower is required to push into a section and a certain level of agility and mobility is required to move around within the areas.

If you want to take advantage of speed... distractions are more useful for that purpose alone.. either "making people assume" the main force is coming in one direction OR attack the gens while the main force is busy.

However, since the gens in Invasion are clustered so tightly, speed is generally negated. Thanks PGI.

[AlphaToaster]

I see what you're saying and I agree.

My concern is on the first wave, if the defense is too near Omega, then the attackers gain position over the dropzones and pin the enemy team. If the defenders move the fight forward (gates), then on death they have time to move out of the dropzones and mount a proper counter attack with their second mechs.

I think of it like an American footbal field with the gate as the 50yrd line. Mounting the primary defense @ Omega is the 35yrd line w/ the drop zones each teams end zone. It's tough to fight out of the endzone when the enemy is using the defenses and terrain around Omega.

[BSK]

It is just that on some CW maps the enemies are now faster with light mechs at the gates than the defenders with heavy mechs ..

[Clownwarlord]

Agree it narrows the enemy into gaps that are usually in the open. I say usually because there are a few maps where the gates are not visible completely (as in they have cover). Sadly though to use the gates you have to have a firing line setup in the correct area. Otherwise the enemy can rush in and pick off those on the end of the fire line. That is more of an issue with the map designs because there is less space in the correct areas that you normally would forma fire line.

Lastly when dropping with pugs no one trust each other so they prefer to sit back by turrets and drop ships that will do a lot of damage because of auto aim for them.

[Tom Sawyer]

Going to have to say its neither the gates or the dropships that are the best assets.

It is a person with experience who takes drop command and actually get the team to follow

Some maps it is a rush to hold the gates, others it is specific choke point.

But if no one calls it and or the team just scatters might as well open the gates, power down, and let the attackers finish

[Lily from animove]

It depends on the map, you can not guard and gather at all gates at the same time, a fast approaching wave of mechs may then suddenly have advantage of numbers,meaning you are unable to properly defend there ad should make a line further in the back where people properly can gather.


MWO battles are dynamic to a specific degree and require the right reaction. based on the location.

[Livewyr]

Gates don't have nearly as much firepower, and are not invincible like the dropship.

Of course people will defend from the dropship.

[KinLuu]

Have you ever seen a team, which got pushed back into their dropships, perform a comeback?

I have not. And I have played quite a lot CW.

[Dawnstealer]

I know they said that destroying the gates directly wasn't "fun," but...they should just make the gates destructible. The argument Russ was using was that people just sit way back to shoot the gates. Well...people sit way back (or waterfall) to destroy the genies. And it makes a lot less sense for a base to have generators that are so easily attacked.

I'm...just saying.

[AlphaToaster]

BSK, on 04 August 2015 - 10:24 PM, said:

It is just that on some CW maps the enemies are now faster with light mechs at the gates than the defenders with heavy mechs ..

Yes, I'm thinking maybe those heavy mechs need to build in more speed. Speed isn't being properly given importance when weighing if a build is good for cw or not.

clownwarlord, on 05 August 2015 - 02:44 AM, said:

Agree it narrows the enemy into gaps that are usually in the open. I say usually because there are a few maps where the gates are not visible completely (as in they have cover). Sadly though to use the gates you have to have a firing line setup in the correct area. Otherwise the enemy can rush in and pick off those on the end of the fire line. That is more of an issue with the map designs because there is less space in the correct areas that you normally would forma fire line.

Lastly when dropping with pugs no one trust each other so they prefer to sit back by turrets and drop ships that will do a lot of damage because of auto aim for them.

Absoutely. Defending the gates still requires some teamwork. Perhaps the trust can be addressed if we allow mixed faction premades access to defend?

Tom Sawyer, on 05 August 2015 - 04:37 AM, said:

Going to have to say its neither the gates or the dropships that are the best assets.

It is a person with experience who takes drop command and actually get the team to follow

Some maps it is a rush to hold the gates, others it is specific choke point.

But if no one calls it and or the team just scatters might as well open the gates, power down, and let the attackers finish

Ok you got me on this one. I can't disagree here. I even liked your post. I suppose my phrasing more implied map based asset, but you are correct on all counts.

Lily from animove, on 05 August 2015 - 04:50 AM, said:

It depends on the map, you can not guard and gather at all gates at the same time, a fast approaching wave of mechs may then suddenly have advantage of numbers,meaning you are unable to properly defend there ad should make a line further in the back where people properly can gather.


MWO battles are dynamic to a specific degree and require the right reaction. based on the location.

Good stuff. Absolutely map dependant. By giving thought to the gates, that to me indicates some kind of plan. The gates are being considered, not just ignored. Either using a scout to determine where the enemy forces are, or to asses the map, determine friendly force mech placement (relating to speed) and setup further back.

KinLuu, on 05 August 2015 - 05:16 AM, said:

Have you ever seen a team, which got pushed back into their dropships, perform a comeback?

I have not. And I have played quite a lot CW.

Not one single time. Once the attackers gain positions in the base facing the drop ships, PGI hasn't designed the maps in these areas with "fair and even cover", The attackers have the advantage in most grids on the maps. Usually it's some kind of bottleneck the defenders have to come out from behind and there are some open spaces they have to cross. Meanwhile the attackers have cover on the other side of the open space spread out, and can fire into the funnel that the defenders have to come out from.

Dawnstealer, on 05 August 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

I know they said that destroying the gates directly wasn't "fun," but...they should just make the gates destructible. The argument Russ was using was that people just sit way back to shoot the gates. Well...people sit way back (or waterfall) to destroy the genies. And it makes a lot less sense for a base to have generators that are so easily attacked.

I'm...just saying.

Right now, increasing the time it takes the attackers to open the gate would be appropriate. If PGI can slow down that first wave breaching the gate, it will allow defenders a better chance to setup.

At least in doing this, if attackers want that fast rushy game, they have to bring mechs that can jump the wall.