236 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Mister Blastman, on 29 December 2015 - 09:40 PM, said:

Clipper is a fine ship. She's great in combat zones and res sites if you fly her right. She can't tank worth a damn. She's fragile as hell. But she's sexy and fast. Keep that in mind and you'll be alright.

And she has a secret weapon... she rams like a linebacker. Four pips to shields and she is a wrecking ball.

As for PvP... depends on who you're fighting. She can be good and she can be bad.

But I don't use her for PvP. She's my pirate ship. Nothing can outrun her and nobody can catch me--and as I usually pirate... err... collect taxes alone from CMDRs, that's the most important thing I can have.

It is about intimidation and no pride. Never be afraid to run and moreso to antagonize and tease. Eventually even the bounty hunters will give up when they realize they can't ever grab you.

The torpedoes are special, surprise ______ !

At this point I don't really farm, I just play for fun and I do it a lot. I dragged myself from a simple Viper to where I'm at now all from pirating humans. It took exponentially longer to do it this way than trading or anything else, but I have no regrets because every single minute of it was fun and now I own a small fully upgraded fleet, some sideys, an eagle, a viper, a cobra mk iii, an ASP, a Courier, a Vulture, a Clipper and a Cobra MKiv with lots of cash in the bank.

Play for fun and the credits will come naturally.

Oh, dat top speed! I should have thought of that.

Fragile I get. The Vulture takes an absolute beating - except the cockpit, which is right up front and an effing magnet for fire so in a PvP situation if anyone pretty much gets 3 clear shots at you you've got a blown out canopy and are sucking vacuum. It's reached a point where I actually aim pretty well with no hud

I'm wanting that FDL, but may just go Python. The real problem with PvP is that it's so hard to get people to stay for it. Anything with the firepower to really put someone down for good lacks the speed to run them down to do so. Maybe I need to just get the Clipper. She's just so damn pretty and given that anymore I'm just exploring and doing jack of all trades stuff my Vulture is a struggle. Such terrible jump range, few modules, etc. She's a throat-ripper for combat. Just tonight I absolutely ruined some silly ******* in an Anaconda. It's like he'd never played against someone who used chaff. Too slow to get me in his sights, poor maneuvering skills and I'm not sure he realized that you can't use gimbals on a locked target with chaff. I must have done 3 million in damage to him before he bugged out. Maybe more. His power plant was about 30% when he finally bugged out.

Why not. Time for a change. If I don't like it at least I can use it to run trade, smuggling or something different than res farming to save up for an FDL.

[Mister Blastman]

MischiefSC, on 30 December 2015 - 01:34 AM, said:

Oh, dat top speed! I should have thought of that.

Fragile I get. The Vulture takes an absolute beating - except the cockpit, which is right up front and an effing magnet for fire so in a PvP situation if anyone pretty much gets 3 clear shots at you you've got a blown out canopy and are sucking vacuum. It's reached a point where I actually aim pretty well with no hud

I'm wanting that FDL, but may just go Python. The real problem with PvP is that it's so hard to get people to stay for it. Anything with the firepower to really put someone down for good lacks the speed to run them down to do so. Maybe I need to just get the Clipper. She's just so damn pretty and given that anymore I'm just exploring and doing jack of all trades stuff my Vulture is a struggle. Such terrible jump range, few modules, etc. She's a throat-ripper for combat. Just tonight I absolutely ruined some silly ******* in an Anaconda. It's like he'd never played against someone who used chaff. Too slow to get me in his sights, poor maneuvering skills and I'm not sure he realized that you can't use gimbals on a locked target with chaff. I must have done 3 million in damage to him before he bugged out. Maybe more. His power plant was about 30% when he finally bugged out.

Why not. Time for a change. If I don't like it at least I can use it to run trade, smuggling or something different than res farming to save up for an FDL.

Type 3 multicannons are coming. The Vulture finally won't be that weird build ship. At least, for me, it always has been. I like to run a type 3 beam and plasma accelerator on it for now.

For the Clipper you should try asymmetrical weapon loadouts unless you're running gimbals. I've got two rails on one side and two cannons on the other. The cannons aren't great, but, as a pirate, they're symbolic of 18th century ships at sea blasting people broadside with iron to scare them into submission.

[Mister Blastman]

Tarogato, on 29 December 2015 - 07:16 PM, said:

"PROCEDURALLY GENERATED MAPS... WORK"


... you know what else works?

Hiring more map artists.

Hiring more map artists is a waste of time. If you hire more programmers you can create infinite maps. The return on your investment is superior.

[Mister Blastman]

Generic maps my backside...

The crater is 20 kilometers deep.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 31 December 2015 - 09:49 AM.

[Joe Mallad]

The only issue I have with MWO is in CW each planet we fight on should have its on style of map or maps. If in the lore, that planet is always cold... We should only ever have clod maps come up to play on. If the planet is a hot planet, same applies. I'd it's a seasonal planet, than give us 3 or 4 random maps to show time of year winter, fall, summer... You get it. If it's a capital planet with sprawling cities, we should have mega city scape planets and refineries, mech depots and some ports.


It bugs me a bit when I play on a planet that I know is in the lore, always cold and ice and I get a hot map or drop on that same planet a second time and then get a beautiful forest map.


We need more maps, thy don't have to be we rested new every time. Just more maps to fit what the planet is SUPPOSED TO BE not this random map on a planet. Makes it feel like I'm not really fighting over a unique planet.

[Tarogato]

Mister Blastman, on 30 December 2015 - 07:11 AM, said:

Hiring more map artists is a waste of time. If you hire more programmers you can create infinite maps. The return on your investment is superior.

Programmers don't create maps. They dilly dally around trying to build a framework for 6-12 months and implement a new system into the modified cryengine, constantly working out the kinks and bugs, tweaking and limiting generation variables and hoping that the designers will even be able to properly incorporate it. Meanwhile hardly any new maps are being produced, people are disappointed, and population is dwindling because the game is stale.

We need maps *now*, not an elongation of this dry spell for another year while a new team of people try to invent a new system from scratch.

[Khobai]

we dont need procedurally generated maps

what we need more than anything is a new gamemode that promotes role warfare and gives all four weight classes something productive to do. instead of how the game is now where every gamemode is just a variation of skirmish that favors the heavy weight class above all other weight classes.

[Mister Blastman]

Tarogato, on 31 December 2015 - 01:03 PM, said:

Programmers don't create maps. They dilly dally around trying to build a framework for 6-12 months and implement a new system into the modified cryengine, constantly working out the kinks and bugs, tweaking and limiting generation variables and hoping that the designers will even be able to properly incorporate it. Meanwhile hardly any new maps are being produced, people are disappointed, and population is dwindling because the game is stale.

We need maps *now*, not an elongation of this dry spell for another year while a new team of people try to invent a new system from scratch.

You missed the point of the thread... programmers create the procedural engine which creates the maps for the game--or could... if they threw money at it.

We'd all be better for it, too.

[Tarogato]

Mister Blastman, on 31 December 2015 - 05:38 PM, said:

You missed the point of the thread... programmers create the procedural engine which creates the maps for the game--or could... if they threw money at it.

We'd all be better for it, too.

And you missed the point of my post... how long would it take for them to implement it after they decided?

[Tesunie]

Mister Blastman, on 04 August 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

I have a good system. It isn't the best, but it is good.

3770k @ 4.2 Ghz
16 Gigs RAM
670 GTX

That's stronger than my computer.
AMD A10-6700 APU with Radeon 3.70 GHz
8 GB Ram
(As read from my Computer Information screen.)


And, I'd like to mention that I play Space Engineers. Fun game, but on my system it can take a long time to load in a world, and when I play multiplayer modes, if there are more than 2 players things can go a little wonky.


As far as the concept, I'd like this concept for CW maps. I think it would really add variety to CW, and make it feel like we are fighting on random locations on a set planet type. For random quick play modes, I think the hand crafted maps probably would be better served.

Edited by Tesunie, 31 December 2015 - 06:20 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Tarogato, on 31 December 2015 - 05:50 PM, said:

And you missed the point of my post... how long would it take for them to implement it after they decided?

No idea.

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for the night. Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for life.

Make the procedural generator and you have infinite maps.

[Tarogato]

Mister Blastman, on 31 December 2015 - 06:39 PM, said:

No idea.

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for the night. Teach a man to fish and he'll eat for life.

Make the procedural generator and you have infinite maps.

Give a man a ham and he'll eat for the night. Teach the man to raise pigs and he'll starve before they grow up.

[Navid A1]

Mister Blastman, on 31 December 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

Generic maps my backside...

The crater is 20 kilometers deep.

Creating terrains (no matter how bizarre they look) are very easy speaking from procedural generation stand point. Specially in that game your showing ( is it ED?)

Automated procedural generation for high quality FPS maps with high number of details is still at experimental stage... its not as easy as you are making it sound.
Entire studios are dedicating resources on research and testing new algorithms. Not just two or three programmers.


Thinking realistically though... PGI can speed up map generation by using a generated terrain and some small automatically generated features as a starting point. The map designers will then have to put time on fine tuning and polishing the generated map and add additional necessary details.

[Tesunie]

Navid A1, on 31 December 2015 - 07:55 PM, said:

Thinking realistically though... PGI can speed up map generation by using a generated terrain and some small automatically generated features as a starting point. The map designers will then have to put time on fine tuning and polishing the generated map and add additional necessary details.

Another thought, to add spice to the maps and variety...

What if they continued to create basic groundwork of maps like they currently do, then have debris, buildings and stuff be generated automatically to keep things changing? A blend of both worlds? Should be easier to program in I'd imagine, as it's performing less actual work.

[Navid A1]

Tesunie, on 31 December 2015 - 08:07 PM, said:

Another thought, to add spice to the maps and variety...

What if they continued to create basic groundwork of maps like they currently do, then have debris, buildings and stuff be generated automatically to keep things changing? A blend of both worlds? Should be easier to program in I'd imagine, as it's performing less actual work.

That would sometimes lead to problems like clogged corridors or unwanted terrain traps ( that you can not get out of because of limited hill climb)

Take a look at the current caustic valley... the rocks and pebbles around that big smoky hole in the center are very similar to an automatically generated details (that have no regards for collision and hill climbing)
sad thing is that HORRID thing is handcrafted.

[Tesunie]

Navid A1, on 31 December 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

That would sometimes lead to problems like clogged corridors or unwanted terrain traps ( that you can not get out of because of limited hill climb)

Take a look at the current caustic valley... the rocks and pebbles around that big smoky hole in the center are very similar to an automatically generated details (that have no regards for collision and hill climbing)
sad thing is that HORRID thing is handcrafted.

If they have it set up in a grid like pattern, and then random spawn X items as possibilities...?

AKA: In a city, you could still have a grid where buildings would be intended to go. But what exact building and size would vary. It may be a 2 story tall building, a fountain, or a half blown up farm house in that grid plot. This would prevent traps and dead ends, but I would imagine (considering the work they place into maps), that it would not be overly too hard. (I'm not a coder, but I'd image it would be easier than finding the perfect restriction rules. )

Could be a good compromise. Provides variety, without being super complex. Gives a solid structure, and a bit of random to spice things up.

[zagibu]

It's possible. Dwarf Fortress for example generates huge towns procedurally:



This obviously wouldn't be suitable for MWO, it's just to show that procedurally generating complex and believable structures is totally possible.

The question is not about possibility, though, but about 1) whether PGI could pull it off and 2) if it would be worth the time invested.