20 replies to this topic

[Percy Veer]

I'm just comparing PPC/LL/ERLL cool downs over a 10 second period using two weapons on chain fire.

No quirks, no cool-down modules involved, just base numbers.

PLEASE NOTE - THIS IS NOT ABOUT HEAT BUILD-UP.

Does this look right to you lot?

PPC/ERPPC - 4 seconds cool-down, no duration

1st PPC - Fire
2nd PPC - Fire
Cool-down - 4 seconds
1st PPC - Fire
2nd PPC - Fire
Cool-down - 4 seconds
1st PPC - Fire
2nd PPC - Fire

Total damage if all hit within optimum range = 6x10= 60 damage in ten seconds. (Actually done in 8 seconds)

LL - 3.25 seconds cool-down, 1 second duration

1st LL - Fire
Duration - 1 second (Total time = 1 second)
2nd LL - Fire
Duration - 1 second (Total time = 2 seconds)
Cool-down 2.25 seconds (Total time = 4.25 seconds)
1st LL - Fire
Duration - 1 second (Total time = 5.25 seconds)
2nd LL - Fire
Duration - 1 second (Total time = 6.25 seconds)
Cool-down - 2.25 second (Total time = 8.5 seconds)
1st LL - Fire
Duration - 1 second (Total time = 9.5 seconds)
2nd LL Fire -Duration is 1 second but for damage purposes only 0.5 will be taken into account, fulfilling the 10 second damage output.

Total damage if all hit within optimum range = 5.5x9=49.5 damage in 10 seconds.

ERLL - 3.25 seconds cool-down, 1.25 second duration

1st ERLL - Fire
Duration - 1.25 second (Total time = 1.25 second)
2nd LL - Fire
Duration - 1.25 second (Total time = 2.5 seconds)
Cool-down 2 seconds (Total time = 4.5 seconds)
1st LL - Fire
Duration - 1.25 second (Total time = 5.75 seconds)
2nd LL - Fire
Duration - 1.25 second (Total time = 7 seconds)
Cool-down - 2 seconds (Total time = 9 seconds)
1st LL - Fire
Duration is 1.25 seconds, but for damage purposes only 0.8 will be taken into account, fulfilling the 10 second damage output parameter. This equates to 9x0.8=7.2damage.

Total damage if all hit within optimum range = 43.2 damage in 10 seconds

So for damage output within ten seconds, as long as you have amazing accuracy, or you are fighting a tree is:

PPC/ERPPC = 60 damage
LL = 49.5 damage
ERLL = 43.2 damage

Can anyone confirm this, or correct me if I'm wrong please.

Edited by Azmaril, 06 August 2015 - 01:21 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Dont chainfire lasers. Obviously if you do that the durations are going to stack horribly (especially if you wait until the end of one beam to start the next)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 06 August 2015 - 01:23 AM.

[Percy Veer]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 August 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:

Dont chainfire lasers. Obviously if you do that the durations are going to stack horribly (especially if you wait until the end of one beam to start the next)

Yeah, since making this, I'm starting to see things differently. I'm going right off ERLL's right now. I think that's where I've been going wrong in my builds.

[Widowmaker1981]

Azmaril, on 06 August 2015 - 01:30 AM, said:

Yeah, since making this, I'm starting to see things differently. I'm going right off ERLL's right now. I think that's where I've been going wrong in my builds.

imo, only use IS ERLLs on mechs with significant duration reduction quirks, at least 10% anyway. Clan ERLLs... suck. I never use them on anything. I probably would if any clan mechs had duration reduction quirks, but they dont really.

Best energy weapon in the game is the IS LPL, though it is quite range limited.

[Percy Veer]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 August 2015 - 01:37 AM, said:

imo, only use IS ERLLs on mechs with significant duration reduction quirks, at least 10% anyway. Clan ERLLs... suck. I never use them on anything. I probably would if any clan mechs had duration reduction quirks, but they dont really.

Best energy weapon in the game is the IS LPL, though it is quite range limited.

Yeah, I'm just starting a comparison of SRM6 vs LPL right now...any thoughts on which is better?

[Widowmaker1981]

Azmaril, on 06 August 2015 - 01:57 AM, said:

Yeah, I'm just starting a comparison of SRM6 vs LPL right now...any thoughts on which is better?

LPL for me, by far. Its pinpoint, almost front loaded due to the very short duration, has 3x the range (730 at most vs 270) and its hitscan (no need to lead the target). SRMs are short ranged, spread damage a lot, have a very slow projectile so hitting moving targets is a pain, need ammo and.. arent even that much cooler.

YMMV though, a lot of people like SRMs. I hate them.

[bad arcade kitty]

you can simply use this site for such damage/heat tests

http://keikun17.gith...heat_simulator/

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 06 August 2015 - 03:08 AM.

[Percy Veer]

bad arcade kitty, on 06 August 2015 - 03:07 AM, said:

you can simply use this site for such damage/heat tests

http://keikun17.gith...heat_simulator/

Oh, nice, thanks.

[Percy Veer]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 August 2015 - 02:19 AM, said:

LPL for me, by far. Its pinpoint, almost front loaded due to the very short duration, has 3x the range (730 at most vs 270) and its hitscan (no need to lead the target). SRMs are short ranged, spread damage a lot, have a very slow projectile so hitting moving targets is a pain, need ammo and.. arent even that much cooler.

YMMV though, a lot of people like SRMs. I hate them.

Currently runnig 3xsrm6 on my Zeus 6t and I treat it like a shotgun.

Yes it has spread.

Currently my stat with SRM6 is:
SRM 6 =
Fired - 3,276 Hit - 1,579 Hit Rate - 48.20% Total damage - 3,466

Of course 3,276/6 = 546 times trigger pulls

Haven't actually used LPLS yet, but my med pulse is:

Medium Pulse = Fired - 5,988 Hit - 5,162 Hit rate - 86.21% Total damage - 8,196

So 5,988/546 = 10.96 (say 11) So 3,466x11 = 38,126 damage if comparision was to be maintained. (As I've fired Mpulses 11 times more than SRM's)

If all Mpulse had stayed full duration on target, damage should have been:

5,988x6=35,988 (No.of times fires x maximum potential damage)

My damage is 8,196, so my ability to keep a Mpulse on a target for full duration is only 8,196/35,988x100 = 22.77%

So yes I am hitting them a lot with 86.21% accuracy, but my beam is only on target for 22.77% of the time.

Interesting - I think I'm an SRM player, not really a laser player, which is funny, as a few weeks back I was only looking at laser-boats.

Well I certainly had that idea wrong.

Thanks for the input Widowmaker1981, it's been helpful.

Edited by Azmaril, 06 August 2015 - 04:21 AM.

[LordBraxton]

Azmaril, on 06 August 2015 - 04:16 AM, said:

Currently runnig 3xsrm6 on my Zeus 6t and I treat it like a shotgun.

Yes it has spread.

Currently my stat with SRM6 is:
SRM 6 =
Fired - 3,276 Hit - 1,579 Hit Rate - 48.20% Total damage - 3,466

Of course 3,276/6 = 546 times trigger pulls

Haven't actually used LPLS yet, but my med pulse is:

Medium Pulse = Fired - 5,988 Hit - 5,162 Hit rate - 86.21% Total damage - 8,196

So 5,988/546 = 10.96 (say 11) So 3,466x11 = 38,126 damage if comparision was to be maintained. (As I've fired Mpulses 11 times more than SRM's)

If all Mpulse had stayed full duration on target, damage should have been:

5,988x6=35,988 (No.of times fires x maximum potential damage)

My damage is 8,196, so my ability to keep a Mpulse on a target for full duration is only 8,196/35,988x100 = 22.77%

So yes I am hitting them a lot with 86.21% accuracy, but my beam is only on target for 22.77% of the time.

Interesting - I think I'm an SRM player, not really a laser player, which is funny, as a few weeks back I was only looking at laser-boats.

Well I certainly had that idea wrong.

Thanks for the input Widowmaker1981, it's been helpful.

You also seem new. You will give up SRMs for direct fire weapons as your Elo increases. SRMs suck, end of story. They can be usable on fast mediums, and that's about it. Unless your hardpoints force you to bring missile weapons, bring more lasers or ballistics for maximum potency.

[Shredhead]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 August 2015 - 01:37 AM, said:

imo, only use IS ERLLs on mechs with significant duration reduction quirks, at least 10% anyway. Clan ERLLs... suck. I never use them on anything. I probably would if any clan mechs had duration reduction quirks, but they dont really.

Best energy weapon in the game is the IS LPL, though it is quite range limited.

Clan ERLL are fine, and the best laser in the game is the clan LPL.

Azmaril you might want to adjust your mouse sensitivity if you can't hold the laser on target. I hope at least you play this game with mouse and keyboard. Crank the sensitivity down, you can do it live in the testing grounds. Pick a quick mech (not a fast light though) ~90 km/h maybe, choose a target at around 600 meters, start moving laterally full speed and turn some sharp corners. Then try to keep your laser on target. This way you'll find your preferred sensitivity settings fairly quickly. The rest is experience and training.
You should also always use Artemis for SRMs, and don't listen to LordBraxton, SRMs are fine.
Go here to build mechs in advance and maybe have a look in the beginners section of the forums.

Edited by Shredhead, 06 August 2015 - 04:51 AM.

[Percy Veer]

LordBraxton, on 06 August 2015 - 04:44 AM, said:

You also seem new. You will give up SRMs for direct fire weapons as your Elo increases. SRMs suck, end of story. They can be usable on fast mediums, and that's about it. Unless your hardpoints force you to bring missile weapons, bring more lasers or ballistics for maximum potency.

Lol, now I'm just going round in circles.

Yes, newish to MWO. Played Battletech back in the 1980's. Still can't get my head round this clan-crap. (Thanks FASA for not negotiating to use imagery such as Marauder and Warhammer - lets not go there)

Been playng online games since Everquest back in 1999.

[Percy Veer]

Shredhead, on 06 August 2015 - 04:50 AM, said:

Clan ERLL are fine, and the best laser in the game is the clan LPL.

Azmaril you might want to adjust your mouse sensitivity if you can't hold the laser on target. I hope at least you play this game with mouse and keyboard. Crank the sensitivity down, you can do it live in the testing grounds. Pick a quick mech (not a fast light though) ~90 km/h maybe, choose a target at around 600 meters, start moving laterally full speed and turn some sharp corners. Then try to keep your laser on target. This way you'll find your preferred sensitivity settings fairly quickly. The rest is experience and training.
You should also always use Artemis for SRMs, and don't listen to LordBraxton, SRMs are fine.
Go here to build mechs in advance and maybe have a look in the beginners section of the forums.

I'm still learning to control the mech. Still fighting it really. Using arms and throttle settings now however. Seeing improvements all the time.

Tried SRM and artemis on my Zeus.

Had two enemy assaults running at our team, and all I had been shooting was 2 ERLL's.
Anyhow, the King Crab came over a pipe in caustic valley with his other assault buddy and I sent 3xSRM6+artemis into him.
He just staggered and fell back. Didn't know what hit him. We won, adn we didn't go round in circles that time either.

However, I do see artemis as putting a choke on a shotgun with SRM's. It's good if your accurate, but is the extra slot you lose worth it?

I'm currently concluding it isn't, but I still miss it, cos its great when you're on a tight map, like the mining collective.

Yes, I shall have to play with sensitivity. Only just turned up brightness and gamma to 0.65 two days ago. No wonder people I couldn't see were shooting me. 0.5 is a bad setting.

Is there a setting area you recommend?

Edited by Azmaril, 06 August 2015 - 05:03 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Take the MWO weapon stats with a massive, massive pinch of salt. They are enormously inaccurate - i have 1300 ish games in my Banshee-3M, of which at least 1200 have had large pulse lasers equipped, and many other games in other mechs using LPLs. My weapon stats say i have a total of 123 matches with LPLs, which is very definitely wrong, by more than a factor of 10.

Shredhead, on 06 August 2015 - 04:50 AM, said:

Clan ERLL are fine, and the best laser in the game is the clan LPL.

Azmaril you might want to adjust your mouse sensitivity if you can't hold the laser on target. I hope at least you play this game with mouse and keyboard. Crank the sensitivity down, you can do it live in the testing grounds. Pick a quick mech (not a fast light though) ~90 km/h maybe, choose a target at around 600 meters, start moving laterally full speed and turn some sharp corners. Then try to keep your laser on target. This way you'll find your preferred sensitivity settings fairly quickly. The rest is experience and training.
You should also always use Artemis for SRMs, and don't listen to LordBraxton, SRMs are fine.
Go here to build mechs in advance and maybe have a look in the beginners section of the forums.

This is a person who thinks that the reason long duration lasers are bad is the difficulty of holding it on the target, which it is NOT. that is a minor inconvenience. Being forced to be exposed and staring at the target for the duration of the beam is the issue.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 06 August 2015 - 05:07 AM.

[Shredhead]

Azmaril, on 06 August 2015 - 04:59 AM, said:

I'm still learning to control the mech. Still fighting it really. Using arms and throttle settings now however. Seeing improvements all the time.

Tried SRM and artemis on my Zeus.

Had two enemy assaults running at our team, and all I had been shooting was 2 ERLL's.
Anyhow, the King Crab came over a pipe in caustic valley with his other assault buddy and I sent 3xSRM6+artemis into him.
He just staggered and fell back. Didn't know what hit him. We won, adn we didn't go round in circles that time either.

However, I do see artemis as putting a choke on a shotgun with SRM's. It's good if your accurate, but is the extra slot you lose worth it?

I'm currently concluding it isn't, but I still miss it, cos its great when you're on a tight map, like the mining collective.

Yes, I shall have to play with sensitivity. Only just turned up brightness and gamma to 0.65 two days ago. No wonder people I couldn't see were shooting me. 0.5 is a bad setting.

Yes, Artemis is absolutely worth it, especially on SRM6. On mechs where missile slots are close together one can argue the worth of Artemis for SRM4, and SRM2 generally do not benefit from Artemis enough to justify the investment.
With SRM6 only you'll not hit the broad side of a barn at 200 meters, with Artemis the majority of missiles will at least hit the mech. It's still a shotgun, but it's like the difference between bird shot and buck shot.

[LordBraxton]

Azmaril, on 06 August 2015 - 04:53 AM, said:

Lol, now I'm just going round in circles.

Yes, newish to MWO. Played Battletech back in the 1980's. Still can't get my head round this clan-crap. (Thanks FASA for not negotiating to use imagery such as Marauder and Warhammer - lets not go there)

Been playng online games since Everquest back in 1999.

Has nothing to do with prior BT knowledge or gaming experience. As you rise in the ELO ladder, your opponents will get more and more accurate, and the builds will become more and more deadly. I know Im not on top (but in group queue I get stomped by EMP\SJR\BMMU a lot) but Im far from the bottom. All I see are direct fire pinpoint builds and laser vomit. Trying to bring SRMs to a high elo match leaves you with weapon systems youll probably only fire a couple times.

Edited by LordBraxton, 06 August 2015 - 05:14 AM.

[Shredhead]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 August 2015 - 05:06 AM, said:

This is a person who thinks that the reason long duration lasers are bad is the difficulty of holding it on the target, which it is NOT. that is a minor inconvenience. Being forced to be exposed and staring at the target for the duration of the beam is the issue.

Not exactly, this is just a person who says clan ERLL are fine for the intended purpose (extreme range). This is also a person who'll take clan LPL over ERLL any time.

[N a p e s]

LordBraxton, on 06 August 2015 - 04:44 AM, said:

You also seem new. You will give up SRMs for direct fire weapons as your Elo increases. SRMs suck, end of story. They can be usable on fast mediums, and that's about it. Unless your hardpoints force you to bring missile weapons, bring more lasers or ballistics for maximum potency.

This is so unfortunate and so true.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Chainfire = Noob....

[Greenjulius]

LordBraxton, on 06 August 2015 - 05:13 AM, said:

Has nothing to do with prior BT knowledge or gaming experience. As you rise in the ELO ladder, your opponents will get more and more accurate, and the builds will become more and more deadly. I know Im not on top (but in group queue I get stomped by EMP\SJR\BMMU a lot) but Im far from the bottom. All I see are direct fire pinpoint builds and laser vomit. Trying to bring SRMs to a high elo match leaves you with weapon systems youll probably only fire a couple times.

As others are saying, you're spot on.

I never see league players waste their time on SRMs. If you bring SRMs, you're at a big disadvantage:

1:) Shorter range than any weapons system. 270m + mods/quirks sucks.
2.) Travel time. Mechs can dodge SRM easily near max distance.
3.) Unreliable hitreg. Sometimes deliver full damage, sometimes deliver 10%, and spread out everywhere. Sometimes don't hit at all.
4.) Ammo is heavy, and usually wasted. (not used or inefficient due to misses)

Lasers and Gauss/ACs are so much better than SRMs, it's sad.

Also, to the OP; Don't chainfire lasers. There's a reason it's called laser vomit. You dump it all at once, then pop back into cover / torso twist. Chainfiring increases face time which means you'll die faster too.

Edited by Greenjulius, 06 August 2015 - 07:42 AM.