237 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Hotthedd, on 09 August 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

I do not know them to be false. I believe them to be true.

That is the problem, you really think I'm the only one that voted against 3PV, Ghost Heat, etc due to reasons outside of Battletech reasons. There are more things that those issues affect than simply Battletech immersion, to assume that Battletech is the only reason people would dislike is to be ignorant of what people want from MWO in general. There are more people that play this game than TT purists.

Hotthedd, on 09 August 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

there are already tough choices in the game.

XL or Standard is the only upgrade that is a tough choice, and hitboxes and weight class make that less so.

[Hotthedd]

WM Quicksilver, on 09 August 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

That is the problem, you really think I'm the only one that voted against 3PV, Ghost Heat, etc due to reasons outside of Battletech reasons. There are more things that those issues affect than simply Battletech immersion, to assume that Battletech is the only reason people would dislike is to be ignorant of what people want from MWO in general. There are more people that play this game than TT purists.

I never said BattleTech was the only reason people disliked those things. I said that many BattleTech purists who did not like those things quit the game over them. You are right. Those things are terrible in their own right and there are many other good reasons not to like them.

WM Quicksilver, on 09 August 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

XL or Standard is the only upgrade that is a tough choice, and hitboxes and weight class make that less so.

There are cases where Artemis may or may not be worth it due to ammo or crits, there are cases where Endo is tough if the tonnage isnt NEEDED, but the crits are, Ferro almost a side grade in many cases.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Hotthedd, on 09 August 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

There are cases where Artemis may or may not be worth it due to ammo or crits, there are cases where Endo is tough if the tonnage isnt NEEDED, but the crits are, Ferro almost a side grade in many cases.

Artemis you are correct on, it can be somewhat of a choice.
Endo/Ferro however are not, there is always an optimal setup. On very few mechs is Endo not taken, the question is never "do I want more weapons, or more durability", it is "what do I use all this free tonnage on?"

Hotthedd, on 09 August 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

I never said BattleTech was the only reason people disliked those things. I said that many BattleTech purists who did not like those things quit the game over them. You are right. Those things are terrible in their own right and there are many other good reasons not to like them.

Your allegation did not make it seem that way.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 09 August 2015 - 06:21 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

meteorol, on 06 August 2015 - 05:07 AM, said:

Type 1 (lets just say doubles): Higher cap, lower dissipation
Type 2 (Singles): Lower cap, higher dissipation

Problem solved. A wise person once said:

Hahaha...was just thinking of that phrase an hour ago during a game.

[Joseph Mallan]

Pjwned, on 07 August 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

Not really much of a response because nothing I said even hinted at liking or playing Call of Duty while you're the one stamping your feet to defend MUH PROGRESSION, which you can get in various Korean MMORPGs if that's what you want.



Leaving SHS as useless is a bad idea and you should feel bad for supporting it.



SHS in Battletech was inferior, but it at least had a reason to exist because it was cheap equipment. That doesn't have any value in this game though so it has no reason to exist, and even when DHS would still remain superior in most builds you just throw a fit about the status quo because grinding is apparently more important than balance.



Are you ever going to use SHS unless you're intentionally gimping your mech or you're forced to use it?

No? Then it's useless; keep grasping straws though.

Useless would imply they cannot be used. They are not preferred but can be used. I used to rain LRM40s using single sinks. The Medium Lasers over heated way to quick but I have complained about that since end of my first week in CB. 21 Single sinks should handle 4 mediums as well as it does 2 LRM20!

[Pjwned]

Hotthedd, on 09 August 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

there are already tough choices in the game. There are few c-bill sinks.

Few c-bill sinks?! WHAT???

Go look at the price of mechs to buy, especially any remotely heavy chassis, and then realize that most of them come with terrible equipment (mostly in the form of bad engines that are never used) that still sells at a loss when you get rid of it, and then do that 2 more times for every single mech because you need to grind 3 variants which also likely results in duplicate equipment that you of course still don't use. Add on top of that the price of buying a decent engine (instead of a terrible one) for your mech, especially if it's an XL engine which easily costs several million, and it gets plenty expensive just buying mechs alone; the occasional expensive weapon purchase (e.g AC20, ER LL, LB-10 X, etc) also adds onto this further although not as much.

Then add on top of that another c-bill sink that's 10x worse in the form of mech and weapon modules, and god forbid you want to move your modules around with the cumbersome UI which likely prompts you to buy duplicate modules just to avoid the giant pain in the ass it is to swap them around.

Even if you defend c-bill sinks because you have some frankly deranged views about progression and how it's so important that it trumps nearly everything else, there are ENOUGH sinks without a 1.5m c-bill tax to install DHS on nearly every damn mech. Read this damn thread if you're not convinced by my reply alone: http://mwomercs.com/...ost-of-modules/

I don't understand why people insist on defending some worthless grind to the detriment of the game, go play something else if grinding is how you get your jollies, preferably something that I don't play.

Edited by Pjwned, 10 August 2015 - 07:03 AM.

[Pjwned]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 August 2015 - 04:17 AM, said:

Useless would imply they cannot be used. They are not preferred but can be used. I used to rain LRM40s using single sinks.

Even if I were to agree, which I don't, that's still not far from the truth by any means considering how miserably bad SHS is unless you lower your firepower so much as to be a waste of a slot on any team that's remotely decent; the sole exception to prove the rule is dual gauss builds.

Quote

The Medium Lasers over heated way to quick but I have complained about that since end of my first week in CB. 21 Single sinks should handle 4 mediums as well as it does 2 LRM20!

Aside from drastically changing multiple systems like heat, fire rate, etc, SHS would still be bad for cooling down with 4 medium lasers even if MLs were lowered to 3 heat like they should be.

[Hotthedd]

Pjwned, on 10 August 2015 - 06:52 AM, said:

Few c-bill sinks?! WHAT???

Go look at the price of mechs to buy, especially any remotely heavy chassis, and then realize that most of them come with terrible equipment (mostly in the form of bad engines that are never used) that still sells at a loss when you get rid of it, and then do that 2 more times for every single mech because you need to grind 3 variants which also likely results in duplicate equipment that you of course still don't use. Add on top of that the price of buying a decent engine (instead of a terrible one) for your mech, especially if it's an XL engine which easily costs several million, and it gets plenty expensive just buying mechs alone.

Then add on top of that another c-bill sink that's 10x worse in the form of mech and weapon modules, and god forbid you want to move your modules around with the cumbersome UI which likely prompts you to buy duplicate modules just to avoid the giant pain in the ass it is to swap them around.

Even if you defend c-bill sinks because you have some frankly deranged views about progression and how it's so important that it trumps nearly everything else, there are ENOUGH sinks without a 1.5m c-bill tax to install DHS on nearly every damn mech. Read this damn thread if you're not convinced by my reply alone: http://mwomercs.com/...ost-of-modules/

I don't understand why people insist on defending some worthless grind to the detriment of the game, go play something else if grinding is how you get your jollies, preferably something that I don't play.

You are confusing expensive items with the term C-bill sink.
With an expensive item, you save the C-bills, then you buy the item, then you never have to buy it again. Of course you COULD buy more if you like, to reduce the hassle of un equipping and re equipping, but it isn't necessary.

Repair and Re-arm was a C-bill sink, but that has been removed. As much as people like to complain about the in game economy (and I agree for the most part), it really IS easy to amass more C-bills than is ever really needed.

I have not spent any money on this game since the introduction of 3PV. I only get to play a few hours a week. I have several mastered and fully kitted chassis, tons of modules, etc., and have roughly 300 million C-bills. I cannot be alone in this. I even gave 250 million C-bills to my unit just for the lolz. IF a meaningful CW ever comes to fruition, this will wreck the economy.

Yep, there is a grind. But I would rather there be a high price of entry than some P2W scenario.

[MeiSooHaityu]

There are a few builds that SHS might help out on, but there sure as heck aren't many. It can see it's limited uses. Maybe dual Gauss, but if you run any energy backup, you want DHS.

Mostly, it seems to help out with the very few heavy ballistic lights in the game. They almost always require external heat sinks and generally they can get away with SHS to help maximize their speed.

The dreaded (more for the person piloting it than the enemy ) Panther 10P...
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b502dfaad191a3e

Or in an Urbie
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5d2a90b8f4e140a

They just won't fit DHS.

Again, it is a pretty niche application, but it does occasionally have it's purpose. Still, I'd like to see something unique added to them. I know it has always been a C-Bill tax in everything prior it seems, but something unique wouldn't hurt.

[Pjwned]

Hotthedd, on 10 August 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

You are confusing expensive items with the term C-bill sink.
With an expensive item, you save the C-bills, then you buy the item, then you never have to buy it again. Of course you COULD buy more if you like, to reduce the hassle of un equipping and re equipping, but it isn't necessary.

By that logic DHS isn't a c-bill sink either, so maybe stop with the doublethink.

Quote

Repair and Re-arm was a C-bill sink, but that has been removed. As much as people like to complain about the in game economy (and I agree for the most part), it really IS easy to amass more C-bills than is ever really needed.

I have not spent any money on this game since the introduction of 3PV. I only get to play a few hours a week. I have several mastered and fully kitted chassis, tons of modules, etc., and have roughly 300 million C-bills. I cannot be alone in this. I even gave 250 million C-bills to my unit just for the lolz. IF a meaningful CW ever comes to fruition, this will wreck the economy.

That's nice and all but there's still a rather long ramping up period to get to that point, and things like SHS being useless only make that worse.

Quote

Yep, there is a grind. But I would rather there be a high price of entry than some P2W scenario.

So what I'm getting out of this is that you irrationally want to maintain the status quo of SHS being pointless because changing it would lead to "some P2W scenario" due to some of the grinding being slightly less bad while still maintaining plenty of grind by other means.

Tempted to just not argue further at this point because unless I'm really missing something there that makes no damn sense.

[Hotthedd]

Pjwned, on 10 August 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:

By that logic DHS isn't a c-bill sink either, so maybe stop with the doublethink.



That's nice and all but there's still a rather long ramping up period to get to that point, and things like SHS being useless only make that worse.



So what I'm getting out of this is that you irrationally want to maintain the status quo of SHS being pointless because changing it would lead to "some P2W scenario" due to some of the grinding being slightly less bad while still maintaining plenty of grind by other means.

Tempted to just not argue further at this point because unless I'm really missing something there that makes no damn sense.

You're missing something. Really.

[Almond Brown]

Mcgral18, on 06 August 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

Because SHS would be playable, and you wouldn't NEED to upgrade to DHS for 1.5 mil.

Better for the NPE, being only 25% worse instead of half as efficient. 25% isn't insignificant, but certainly not on the same scale as it is now.

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

DHS's operate @1.4, so the difference is only 40% not 1 vs 2 or 100%. So do you want to reduce DHS's by 15% to 1.25% or increase the SHS by 15% to 1.15% making the actual gap 25%?

Still buying 1.5 mill. DHS's even at a 25% boost.

[Mcgral18]

Almond Brown, on 10 August 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

DHS's operate @1.4, so the difference is only 40% not 1 vs 2 or 100%. So do you want to reduce DHS's by 15% to 1.25% or increase the SHS by 15% to 1.15% making the actual gap 25%?

Still buying 1.5 mill. DHS's even at a 25% boost.

You forget TrueDubs.

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 August 2015 - 01:55 AM, said:

Nope.
Seriously, why do they need to be made better? They are what they are.

Here is the gist. We are Mercs. The weapons of destruction we have are either family owned or bought black market or military surplus.

Are we going to be able to have the best money can buy from the word go?

Double Sinks are supposed to be twice as good as single.

And we already gave up 60% of that Double bonus, now folks want to close that gap between Singles even more? wtf!!!

[Mcgral18]

Almond Brown, on 10 August 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

And we already gave up 60% of that Double bonus, now folks want to close that gap between Singles even more? wtf!!!

It helps if you try to be literate.


Of course, you've never really contributed to any discussion.

[Lugh]

I'd like to improve Horse and Buggies, but there is no point since the advent of the combustion engine.

Same thought here. Don't need singles, doubles do it better.

[Khobai]

Quote

I'd like to improve Horse and Buggies, but there is no point since the advent of the combustion engine.

What about Amish people?

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 10 August 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

What about Amish people?

Its pretty hard to improve them...

[Hotthedd]

Khobai, on 10 August 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

What about Amish people?

Noobs. They need to L2P.

[Khobai]

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Its pretty hard to improve them...

the amish still drive their horse and buggies around.

so maybe theres amish mechwarriors that think double heatsinks are the devil and only use single heatsinks.