19 replies to this topic

[Suko]

I was one of those guys who was rallying for some changes to the IS/Clan balance back when the clans first came into MWO. I believed the Clans were OP and that the IS was at a disadvantage. Thanks to the buff IS mechs got with quirks and then the follow up Clan nerf quirks, I now fear the pendulum has swung a bit too far the other direction.

My biggest issue is the burn time and heat on the clan lasers are far too much. Don't get me wrong - Clan lasers dominate at a distance, but in any other situation they're inferior to their IS counterparts.

Let's look at beam duration. It's just ridiculous. Thanks to the "alpha until it's dead" mindset in this game, a critical "skill" pilots utilize is to spread damage across your mech by torso twisting in-between shots. With Clan lasers you're forced to stare straight at an enemy without moving for 1.5 seconds (not including pilot target acquisition time). This gives any competent opponent ample time to focus any part of your mech they desire and shred it to pieces. It's even worse if you're fighting multiple mechs simultaneously.

Something needs to be done about the beam time
I would gladly trade a 30% hit in range for a 20% buff in duration. While your at it, I'd trade another 20% of my damage to reduce the heat by 20%. If PGI isn't willing to make the change to all Clan lasers, then how about a module that would do this same thing?

In the mean time, I find myself going back to my old IS chassis more and more. I love the look of Clan mechs, but I can't justify piloting a mech that I can't make work. To those who wreck face with laser-heavy Clan mechs, I tip my hat to you. I don't know how you do it (unless it's just sniping from 1100m+), but good game.

Now, let the slander about my piloting skills begin!

Edited by Suko, 07 August 2015 - 11:34 AM.

[Squirg]

lol

[FupDup]

The only Clan beam that seems to be really long is the CERLL. Even then, I find it to be kinda sorta manageable while grinding my Arctic Chias.

The rest of the laser durations are pretty much fine.

Edited by FupDup, 07 August 2015 - 11:36 AM.

[Paigan]

Some IS Mechs are overquirked, like Dragon, Thunderbolt, Huginn, etc.
They make Clan Mechs seem relatively weak.
Apart from that, Clans are still pretty good if not superior.

[Mcgral18]

Most of them have always been meh.

You need to choose the right ones, who weren't gimped by TT construction. Those ones are some of the best robots in the game.

[Scout Derek]

Everything's good except the clan er large laser as fupdup said.

Least to say there's a reason for everything.

[Penance]

I plan on playing tonight / this weekend after a few months away. I'm sure I'm gonna get rekt / experience a major adjustment of the game and how it's changed

[Gas Guzzler]

Paigan, on 07 August 2015 - 11:38 AM, said:

Some IS Mechs are overquirked, like Dragon, Thunderbolt, Huginn, etc.
They make Clan Mechs seem relatively weak.
Apart from that, Clans are still pretty good if not superior.

The Thunderbolt 5SS is probably the only mech that I would put on par with the best the Clans have to offer. And even that, is only valid at brawling ranges (cSPL/cMPL boats are good counters to this).

Clan mechs also have the option to engage effectively at 500-700m. The inner sphere currently has no answer to this, but I am hoping the Black Knight will get appropriate quirks to be able to accomplish this on the IS side.

Both the Dragon and the Huginn are a bit "gimmicky", but do have huge quirks that grant them insane DPS. Despite the insane DPS, you will not see them used in competition. The Dragon is too squishy and has all of its firepower in one (large) arm. The Huginn spits out a ton of SRMs, good luck with that if there are more than one person shooting you (in a Raven), you won't last long.

[Burktross]

I don't know, I still get an absolute blast out of playing my Cute Foxes

[Lightfoot]

clan er large is too long duration. now that the mad cat is nerfed they should drop the er large to 1.25 or lower.

[FupDup]

Lightfoot, on 07 August 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

clan er large is too long duration. now that the mad cat is nerfed they should drop the er large to 1.25 or lower.

That's the same duration as the IS ERLL...

I'd settle for reducing the beam to about 1.4 or 1.35, while dropping the damage to 10 and perhaps shaving off a bit of range (reduce from 740 to about 700-725?).

[Gas Guzzler]

Lightfoot, on 07 August 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

clan er large is too long duration. now that the mad cat is nerfed they should drop the er large to 1.25 or lower.

You can use 4 c ERLLs on a Mad Cat with 0 negative quirks. If you didn't hear, they (mostly) rolled back the nerfs. Timber Wolves once again reign supreme.

[RoboPatton]

Prior to having clam stuff I thought it was all overpowered. After getting a couple of clan mechs I realized, most clan tech requires you to play differently.

After getting used to the longer burn time on lazors, and the fun burst from c-uac stuff, I'm starting to enjoy it more than my IS mechs.

I am getting a bit bored tho, with the general mega-lazer-vomit-boat-meta, in general.

[DAYLEET]

Suko, on 07 August 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

Let's look at beam duration. It's just ridiculous.

You have to keep in mind that the longer duration is made moot with the lasers doing more flat damage and being longer range so that's another buff in damage granted you are at range and being able to boat more. You dont have to play the staring game to equal the damage done to you but you have the opportunity to do it.

[Screech]

DAYLEET, on 07 August 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

You have to keep in mind that the longer duration is made moot with the lasers doing more flat damage and being longer range so that's another buff in damage granted you are at range and being able to boat more. You dont have to play the staring game to equal the damage done to you but you have the opportunity to do it.

Not really. With torso twist being assumed a clan large laser will only do 7.3 damage to a CT with the remaining 3.7 spread to other areas(or missed) compared to a 9 from a IS large laser. Also the IS laser will be ready to fire a full 1/2 second earlier and will have generated less heat. I mean maybe that additional damage will cause the enemy issues but maybe you are just hitting an arm with nothing in it.

Equal damage being done in no way means the fight is equal.

[Weaselball]

Suko, on 07 August 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

Now, let the slander about my piloting skills begin!

You have the TT equivalent of 7 gunnery and 8 piloting! HA! SICK BURN!

...


...am I doing this right?

[Milocinia]

Personally I much prefer the "flavour" of the clan mechs. I like the burst fire ballistics, I like the streamed missiles and I even like the lasers. Granted the burn time on the CERLL is excessive and it's quite a difficult weapon to use effectively, but when you have CERML which have almost the same unquirked range as ISLL, I'm happy to use CERML all day long. I also like the omnipod system so I can build several of my own unique mechs without having fixed hardpoint restrictions. Don't forget that clan mechs tend to have oversized engines and locked heatsinks which sort of counteracts the lighter weapon weight.

Granted you can't change endo, FF or the engine but it's not an issue to me. Most clan mechs tend to either lack pod space or spare tonnage. At least it gets your thinking cap on with regards to building it, instead of being p****d off at what you can't fit in you just have to understand that's the way it is. Mechs like the Summoner have reasonable quirks that make it surprisingly viable and really fun to pilot. The Warhawk isn't far off being decent but there are a few more clan mechs that need some serious help.

Essentially the clans have the advantage at long range poking whereas the IS tend to have the advantage at short range and with lower heat generation too. I really don't like the IS' short range though, those medium lasers are especially anaemic. That doesn't stop me from being afraid of them though. I fear an IS laserboat much more than I do a clan one because I know the IS mech is less likely to overheat and those shorter duration lasers can pile on the damage quite quickly. Because of that I pack my clan mechs with close-medium range firepower, foregoing the CERLL altogether and using a combination of CUACs, CERML and SRMs.

tl;dr I'm happy with the clans as they are, for reasons.

[Jman5]

Even if you only get 0.9 seconds of burn time on that center torso, you still wind up doing more damage than the IS counterpart.

Considering that medium lasers are far and away the most used weapons, I'd argue it plays a much greater role in the overall clan vs IS balance than probably any other two weapons in the game.

Personally I'm in favor of minor buffs to some of the Clan Autocannons, but I think we need to leave lasers alone.

Edited by Jman5, 07 August 2015 - 02:52 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Suko, on 07 August 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

I was one of those guys who was rallying for some changes to the IS/Clan balance back when the clans first came into MWO. I believed the Clans were OP and that the IS was at a disadvantage.

They were SUPPOSED TO BE

Im sorry if I like games where Im at a disadvantage but damn

Lightfoot, on 07 August 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

clan er large is too long duration. now that the mad cat is nerfed they should drop the er large to 1.25 or lower.

Whatd they do to the Imbawolf?

[Osteo2001]

Weaselball, on 07 August 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

You have the TT equivalent of 7 gunnery and 8 piloting! HA! SICK BURN!

You actually made me LOL... Well Played!