74 replies to this topic

[B0oN]

Solopugs crying again that CW is a team-orientated gamemode (and is meaningless as for now) ?

GET LOST Stalker !

Tsssk, tssk, tsssk

[xX PUG Xx]

Can we please stop spouting this garbage "PuG's are not wanted in CW"!!

What is not wanted in CW are players who unwilling to take direction, work as part of a team and therefore handicap both themselves and the other 11 players on their side of the Red vs. Blue match-up.

I play solo fairly regularly, at least a couple times a week, I still go in with the mental attitude that I'll stick with the team. If someone steps up and is trying to call direction/strategy/targets, then i'll follow their calls and do what I can. So i'm PUG that PuG's and still manages to be a team player.

I get that everyone has varying skill levels but it doesn't take a gaming whizz to understand that 1 'Mech facing 3 or more will probably die very quickly, do very little damage and put that player out of the fight quickly. Everyone needs to think of CW as 4 seperate waves; if you get your stompy robot blown out from under you, don't just rush straight back into the fight. Pick a rally point and wait until you have a decent number of friendlies grouped up.

It's not just about going in all rambo and trying to conquer a planet singlehanded; you ain't Phelan Kell and this ain't a BattleTech novel.

PuG's are more than welcome to drop with this PUG anytime but just bring your "#1 teamplayer" cap.

[TWIAFU]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 August 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

When I drop solo in CW I typically do no less than 2000 damage and more than several kills. Imagine if my 11 teammates could do the same.

The real problem is the solo players who can't manage to break over a couple hundred damage with 4 mechs! That is the part that needs to be fixed.

Actually, I think it is solo players dropping into the Group/Unit focused part of the game and playing it just like solo queue that's part of the problem. Next part is solo players dropping into CW and playing it solo ONLY for LP rewards, demand change, with no intent to play CW as designed.

[Aylward]

No offense intended, but this is a ridiculous thread.. If you are having trouble fighting in CW as an individual than do what was really intended before you tried playing planetary conquest in the first place (where the teams hang out)... Join a group and/or unit and do a little more than jump in a lobby with the 1st 4 mechs you could fit in 240 tons.. and then whine about how someone dared to actually prepare to oppose you with a full team.... The nerve anyway...do they think this is a serious game mode with tangible results or something ?? Geez...

Suggesting that taking a premade 12 man into planetary combat is unfair tells me you know little to NOTHING of this universe. This is not Call of Duty.. If that is what you want, stay in the pug queue or go play call of duty.
If not, then try actually following the rest you are with and if they aren't calling directions, call some yourself.. Shoot what they shoot, stay with them...work as a team, or you are destined to die horribly... 12 man premade or not.

Edited by Aylward, 07 August 2015 - 11:54 AM.

[Mystere]

Draughluin, on 07 August 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:

I know this is fairly depressing to you and the solo Pug, but all said and done, is best to avoid CW altogether and stick to single or group queues. This seems to be what most MWO players are doing and is much more profitable. It is clear that Pugs are not wanted in CW, but are required to fill player volume for CW to be workable in its current form. This premise is another good reason to avoid CW when playing solo.

No it is not. And you most certainly do not speak for this solo player.

[Zaydin]

TWIAFU, on 07 August 2015 - 03:30 AM, said:

When will these seal clubbing 12man Unit is the devil and ate my puppy, bullsh*t stop?

Hey, clown, your seal clubbing 12man only happen 1% of the time or less. You are getting seal clubbed 99% of the time by PUGs!

Hey, I have an idea!

If you want to make CW fun, then drop in a Group or join a Unit as designed for this game mode!

So I guess I've been imagining it when literally every CW match I've done is up against full premades vs pugs.

[Aylward]

if you are in that pug group every time...of course that's what you will see...CW is a team sport !!!! Join a premade group and see how many premade teams it ends up across from compared to how many pug groups it finds... Your perspective is certainly skewed here.

[Gas Guzzler]

Zaydin, on 07 August 2015 - 12:47 PM, said:

So I guess I've been imagining it when literally every CW match I've done is up against full premades vs pugs.

Bring good mechs and communicate/coordinate with your team. It won't be that bad. some 12 mans are just very good, and even other 12 mans will get stomped by them, that is just the way games go.

I typically have a lot of fun solo dropping even if it is a loss.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 07 August 2015 - 01:00 PM.

[Vlad Ward]

MischiefSC, on 07 August 2015 - 08:58 AM, said:

I got into this in another thread but I'll touch on it again here -

the problem isn't groups. The problem is people pugging in CW and not wanting to play as a team. Playing as a team (be that when you're dropping in an organized 12man or pugging) is the bare minimum effort required for CW.

The issue isn't pugging. Almost all of us pug; great players, bad players, mediocre players. What kills 'pugs' is not coordinating. More to the point it is not being willing to put forward the effort to coordinate with their team and bring a non-terrible deck. I'm not even saying 'you need to bring top meta', I mean non-terrible.

Someone needs to call the drop and everyone else needs to follow along. If someone isn't willing to do that and be part of that they need to stay out of CW. Not saying pugs need to stay out of CW, saying people who are not willing to be part of a called drop need to stay out.

People being unwilling to put forward a minimum effort to play CW is not a flaw in CW. It's a flaw in those players. The solution is not to try and make everyone else play worse or put an in-game nanny in to ensure someone can don'tcare in an underhive deck in CW and still do alright.

CW needs a ton of work. A lot of things for it. I've been very vocal in my criticisms of it but among those flaws being 'too hard' isn't one of them.

1. Someone needs to call the drop. You need to be vocal about either volunteering (if you've got the chops for it) or asking someone else to do so.

2. You need to stick with the drop callers direction. If you're not calling the drop you need to follow the lead of the person who does.

3. Bring non-terrible mechs. Don't pug with LRMs (especially not multiple in your deck), no 'solo sniper' designs, leave all that crap for the solo queue. Bring a deck of mechs designed to work with and do your part in a team of 12. Something to brawl in, a long range mech, maybe a scout/ECM support mech, a good mid-range damage dealer/tank. Stick to the firing line, support your teammates and carry your weight as part of the team and not a rambo.

That's it. It's a minimum viable effort. If you want to just pick a random mech, drop, ignore your team and go shoot at stuff, die, rinse and repeat stay in solo queue. That is why it's there. CW is more than that (and should be more than that). If you're unwilling to put forward more effort than breathing in and out then, well, stay in solo queue.

I'd even go so far as to say #3 is the most important point of the lot, and the one least likely to be acknowledged by the people on these boards.

I rarely even bother talking about MWO in a match any more, whether I'm with my own team or not. NKVA just posted a thread the other day detailing the meticulous level of coordination they use when ordering food from Dominos during a match. We've played with them a lot, so you can ask them: My guys make theirs look like a well-oiled coordinating machine. We're like cats with robots. We still beat red team lots, though.

Bad mechs are 80-90% of the problem in my eyes. If you were to give people a deck full of thunderwubs, dragons, stalkers, firestarters, and whatever else the IS uses these days (idk I've been clan too long and haven't paid attention to patch notes), they'd instantly play 5000% better than they were in their LRM commandos and Centurions and whatever other random **** in a can they were driving before.

[MischiefSC]

Vlad Ward, on 07 August 2015 - 01:12 PM, said:

I'd even go so far as to say #3 is the most important point of the lot, and the one least likely to be acknowledged by the people on these boards.

I rarely even bother talking about MWO in a match any more, whether I'm with my own team or not. NKVA just posted a thread the other day detailing the meticulous level of coordination they use when ordering food from Dominos during a match. We've played with them a lot, so you can ask them: My guys make theirs look like a well-oiled coordinating machine. We're like cats with robots. We still beat red team lots, though.

Bad mechs are 80-90% of the problem in my eyes. If you were to give people a deck full of thunderwubs, dragons, stalkers, firestarters, and whatever else the IS uses these days (idk I've been clan too long and haven't paid attention to patch notes), they'd instantly play 5000% better than they were in their LRM commandos and Centurions and whatever other random **** in a can they were driving before.

It doesn't even need to be top meta mechs. My 3rd pug match after being gone from MW:O since March was a Firestarter 9S with 5mpls, 2x identical Pwnface Special Dragon 1Ns and a Battlemaster 1G (3xERLL, 1xGauss). I put up 316 points. I'm not a spectacular player nor were those bleeding edge meta mechs -

They just weren't terrible and I worked hard to play with/support my team. The BM is sword and board letting me tank with a sniper build, it's a rockstar when I stick to several other long range teammates and use my 'shield' side to draw fire and tank damage for them. The Dragons are at best mediocre 1 v 1 but they excel at blunting enemy rushes or conversely brushing back an enemy firing line to cover my own teams advance. Especially on waves 2 and 3 when most the enemy mechs are badly damaged and playing defensively that dakka firehose works amazing. Firestarters are, well, Firestarters.

A stack of wubberbolts and ERLL boats isn't required. Just.... something that isn't BAD. Hell I've even seen some good Grasshopper builds that are alright for CW. The point though is just putting a bit of effort in and playing with your team.

That's it. You don't need to comp train 4 days a week. Just show up with passable mechs and coordinate with your team.

The idea that doing so is 'too much effort' or 'a requirement that forces pugs not to play' is insane.

The underlying issue that can drive these threads is literally this idea that someone can show up in terribad mechs, play like a complete rambo and should still have even odds of winning. These are the same people who think that they should get a job because they showed up to an interview, even if they didn't bother completing the application or that if they ask someone for a date they should have to accept.

More tools to help people make groups and coordinate matches? Absolutely. Game needs it. Some sort of 'balancing' so that people who don't even bother to half try should win as often as people who put in effort?

Oh **** no.

[ApolloKaras]

Rad Hanzo, on 07 August 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

Solopugs crying again that CW is a team-orientated gamemode (and is meaningless as for now) ?

GET LOST Stalker !

Tsssk, tssk, tsssk

Yeah but the point thats being missed, and I cant WAIT for it to happen, when those solo guys are gone then what are you going to do? Eh back to regular queue.

[TWIAFU]

Zaydin, on 07 August 2015 - 12:47 PM, said:

So I guess I've been imagining it when literally every CW match I've done is up against full premades vs pugs.

Yes.

Now that you are back after a year and a half break, you ever join that Unit or you dropping solo?

If you did join that Unit, what nerfs do you want placed upon yourself so you cannot farm PUGs anymore?

Edited by TWIAFU, 07 August 2015 - 02:39 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Saxie, on 07 August 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

Yeah but the point thats being missed, and I cant WAIT for it to happen, when those solo guys are gone then what are you going to do? Eh back to regular queue.

Except that most the pugs in CW are members of units - we just pug sometimes, some of us even pug in CW most the time.

The 'solo guys' are not even all terribads - many know how to and actively participate in playing with their team.

To be 100% honest though, those players with no interest in even trying to work with their team or running decent decks (as much as they can) and putting forward a minimal effort to play to their team and faction? They can leave. They SHOULD leave. That's not a bad thing. The bad thing is that right now CW offers so little even to team oriented players that there are not reasons for team players (or pugs) to really play CW right now.

[Vlad Ward]

I'd be content if they just stopped crying about it all the time. Like losing matches in an FPS is some sort of new-wave, 21st century phenomenon that gamers in their late 20's, 30's, 40's, and 50's (the bulk of MWO's userbase) have never experienced before.

[Gas Guzzler]

Saxie, on 07 August 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

Yeah but the point thats being missed, and I cant WAIT for it to happen, when those solo guys are gone then what are you going to do? Eh back to regular queue.

No one wants the solo players to leave. Where do people get these crazy ideas.

Solos: "CW is lame, 12 mans stomp solo players all the time, we need to limit the groups or have a separate queue for solos"

Everyone else: "No, there isn't enough playerbase for separate queues, besides, CW is a teamplay heavy game mode designed about groups playing as a team with effective mechs. Solo players need to put forth effort to at least bring effective mechs and work together as a team. If you want to go off and do your own thing with no regard for real teamwork, go do that in the solo public queue"

Solos: "Hrmmph. Well I guess we aren't wanted in CW. Good riddance to you when all the solo players leave and no one plays CW. You'll be sorry then." Stupid group players and their units.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 07 August 2015 - 03:01 PM.

[Cptn Goodvibes Pig of Steel]

Mystere, on 07 August 2015 - 12:44 PM, said:

No it is not. And you most certainly do not speak for this solo player.

G'day,


I beg to differ. The vitriol against Pugs is quite evident in the forum. But no, I don't speak for this solo player and neither do you. He spoke his mind when he started this thread. Upon reflection of the situation, I guess you could say that Pugs are welcome to CW, like seals are welcome to a seal farm. Regardless of this, I'm guessing that most are exercising their choice by walking away and that's my queue to do the same and say goodbye.


Warm regards

[Nightshade24]

I think pre made capps are required...

For mercs mixed lonewolfs...
4 man (IS), 5 man (clan) max without any costs or what have you.
8 man (IS) , 10 man (clan) max when paying extra c-bills from unit coffers for the price of the extra drop load. (note, you can do 1-4, or simply 6 and 8, no 5's or 7 man groups), (only 7 or 10 man groups for clans)
12 man groups only when defending a planet the unit owns, free of charge.

Loyalists
approximately half costs and more capacity.

Major event invasions: reduced costs all around (ie tukayiid event)


note for clans* this is just based on lore dropships and such. Clans had a higher capacity ...

IS: Leopard: 4 man.
Cl: broadsword: 5 man (basicly Leopard IIC, but there is no IIC's for ships)

IS: Union dropship: 12
Cl: Union-C dropship: 15 (lower it by lances/stars by 1)
/ 2nd leopard / broadswords.

[MischiefSC]

Draughluin, on 07 August 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

G'day,


I beg to differ. The vitriol against Pugs is quite evident in the forum. But no, I don't speak for this solo player and neither do you. He spoke his mind when he started this thread. Upon reflection of the situation, I guess you could say that Pugs are welcome to CW, like seals are welcome to a seal farm. Regardless of this, I'm guessing that most are exercising their choice by walking away and that's my queue to do the same and say goodbye.


Warm regards

There's a strong misconception here. There is no vitrol against 'pugs'.

I pug more than I drop group. A lot of us do. There are a slew of awesome people who never joined a unit and pug every match. There are tons of unit members who pug most their matches.

The issue is with people who flat out refuse to play to being on a team. Not joining a unit, not even syncing drop decks, just playing to being on a team.

When you see people ragging on pugs, that is who they mean. We all pug. If you play in solo queue, you're pugging. We all pug regularly. The issue is people who want to put no effort into playing to their team and playing a decent mech, not even bleeding edge meta, just decent.... but still want to win against people who play to their team (even when pugging) and take good drop decks.

[gloowa]

MischiefSC, on 07 August 2015 - 03:45 PM, said:

When you see people ragging on pugs, that is who they mean. We all pug. If you play in solo queue, you're pugging. We all pug regularly. The issue is people who want to put no effort into playing to their team and playing a decent mech, not even bleeding edge meta, just decent.... but still want to win against people who play to their team (even when pugging) and take good drop decks.

+1

refer to http://mwomercs.com/...ng/page__st__60 for more

[Mystere]

Draughluin, on 07 August 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

G'day,

I beg to differ. The vitriol against Pugs is quite evident in the forum. But no, I don't speak for this solo player and neither do you. He spoke his mind when he started this thread. Upon reflection of the situation, I guess you could say that Pugs are welcome to CW, like seals are welcome to a seal farm. Regardless of this, I'm guessing that most are exercising their choice by walking away and that's my queue to do the same and say goodbye.


Warm regards

You misunderstood. You do not speak for me -- a solo player who has been enjoying CW since the beginning.