25 replies to this topic

[Fastwind]

Why do people "refuse" to fight counterclockwise?

i kinda get that nascar isn't rly to much of a thing anymore (because of whiny,skilles assault pilots that shouldn't be piloting assaults in the first place)

but why do people totally refuse to go counterclockwise around corners,instead they chose to fight clockwise where most mechs have to expose their entire torso to be able to shot something thats mostly in cover,while they get shot to scrab

do people rly want to give their opponents all the advantages they can give them?
do people rly want to lose at all cost?

Edited by Fastwind, 28 December 2015 - 05:16 PM.

[Moldur]

On river city if a team goes from upper city to space port, that's counter clock-wise. HPG Manifold also goes either way, or as static lines as well.

Most of the popular maps you're right. My guess is that the assault lance is usually spawned on the right, so the team tends to converge on their assault lance in order to not split the team.

[DarkMetalBlade]

I've got your answer right here:

DarkMetalBlade, on 17 December 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

People tend to go right as they might be either using a sword & board mech with all of its weapons on the right side, or, in a more likely case, their main weapon(s) are on the right side.

BTW, this is from an earlier thread asking the same question, & I highly doubt that it has changed at all.

Edited by DarkMetalBlade, 28 December 2015 - 03:03 PM.

[Hexenhammer]

DarkMetalBlade, on 28 December 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

I've got your answer right here:

DarkMetalBlade, on 17 December 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

For the topic at hand, though, people tend to go right as they might be either using a sword & board mech with all of its weapons on the right side, or, in a more likely case, their main weapon(s) are on the right side.

BTW, this is from an earlier thread asking the same question, & I highly doubt that it has changed at all.

My ten bucks is on this. Its most people 'sword' arm and most mechs seem (SEEM) to be right loaded because of hard points or how they load the mech out.

I also wonder if this gets back to stairs. Stairs always circled counter clockwise to give the defenders the advantage. IE the people with swords. And this right handed habit is a carry over.

Edited by Hexenhammer, 28 December 2015 - 04:31 PM.

[Fastwind]

english is not my first language so i have to ask did i say something wrong?or i miss understand you
because what i asked is why "DON'T" people do the sword and board thing
why do people do everything they can,to not do the right thing,and fight counter clockwise?even if you ask em to go counterclockwise,they simply refuse to,WHY?

[Fastwind]

Moldur, on 28 December 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

On river city if a team goes from upper city to space port, that's counter clock-wise. HPG Manifold also goes either way, or as static lines as well.

Most of the popular maps you're right. My guess is that the assault lance is usually spawned on the right, so the team tends to converge on their assault lance in order to not split the team.

you totally got right/left and clockwise/counterclockwise wrong
because if you move in river city from upper city to spaceport you move clockwise

i am actually not sure where the assault spawns on every map are ,but i know out of my head that on tormaline the assault lance for the west spawn is left
and i get that they don't want to desert their assaults,but after the teams meets up with them they still keep going clockwise,so that the enemy team automatically goes counterclockwise giving the enemy team a +2 advantage,it's always a lose.

the other possibility is ofc you want to troll me getting left and right wrong
or you actually do get it wrong which is sad

Edited by Fastwind, 28 December 2015 - 05:14 PM.

[jss78]

Fastwind, on 28 December 2015 - 05:01 PM, said:

english is not my first language so i have to ask did i say something wrong?or i miss understand you
because what i asked is why "DON'T" people do the sword and board thing
why do people do everything they can,to not do the right thing,and fight counter clockwise?even if you ask em to go counterclockwise,they simply refuse to,WHY?

Counter-clockwise is the direction people seem to run, most of the time -- not sure if you tried to argue the opposite.

The guys above suggested that it may be because most asymmetrical mech builds have their main guns on right side, thus going CCW keeps them naturally protected as you swing towards the enemy.

(But then there are exceptions -- I always feel latent anxiety in my Zeuses and Shadow Hawks when the CCW NASCAR starts, as most of the weaponry tends to be in the LA/LT. Maybe I should put all armour in the back and walk backwards.)

[Fastwind]

jss78, on 28 December 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

Counter-clockwise is the direction people seem to run, most of the time -- not sure if you tried to argue the opposite.

Not for me
the teams i get run clockwise,even if i ask them to run counterclockwise
yea and the shadowhawks,banshees,balistic stormcrow... build are good to guard the back of a counterclockwise moving team
but ofc you keep your armor at the front and walk back wards,sometimes

[Karmen Baric]

Brain doesn't work counterclockwise

[Soldier91]

Karmen Baric, on 28 December 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

Brain doesn't work counterclockwise

This. Most people would turn to the right naturally.
Like in the games Armored Core 2/2AA/3/silentline it's not unusual for mechs to try and circle one another, I like this game a bit better because it's less jumpjets and flying. But there are some mechs set up playing using the AI where they can just pummel you with a bazooka or something the timing is perfect when you're circling right. So I started circling counter clockwise one time and found the AI couldn't aim as well if you turn left/counter clockwise instead of right.
I suppose usually if people run around a corner face first and hug the corner instead of taking a further round walk around the corner is they are trying to spot how many mechs are around the corner quick and if they want to back pedal or not to cover.

[Kardax]

Sometimes they listen sometimes they dont.
Nascar usually kills assault lance.
My personal favorite is bad assault spawn on caustic , good lights will kill an atlas 30 secs from start.
What counters it is immiediate CW , enemies dont expect an assault lance backed up by heavies and mediums there

[Leartes]

Moldur, on 28 December 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

Most of the popular maps you're right. My guess is that the assault lance is usually spawned on the right, so the team tends to converge on their assault lance in order to not split the team.

On many maps the team moves away from the assault lance. e.g. on caustic it is pretty easy to be left behind even with the largest engine possible simply because the assault lance spawns left most and everyone moves right.

[Commander A9]

Because people are complacent enough to do the same thing each and every time.

And it's a struggle to motivate people to do something different.

But, if you use VOIP and coordinate, you can come out on top.

...so watch out for my lance, because we do something different each time; makes for a good show.

[DuxMagnus]

whats it matter what way you go? I am lost...?

[Vlad Striker]

This peoples driveng by instincts not tactics. They trying ti attach from strong right hand and hide unprotected left side. Light mechs try to catch assaults and so on.

[Gremlich Johns]

Caustic Valley, ahem

[Barkem Squirrel]

Misery is set for left side and can go counter clock wise, but most other mechs follow the right handed rule. It is just few mechs were build for left's.

[Daggett]

Fastwind, on 28 December 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

Why do people "refuse" to fight counterclockwise?

I was in a match with you today where our team went CW on River City. Here are some reasons why this is happening (some have been mentioned by guys before me):

- Some players want to try new things instead of doing the same **** everytime.
In PUG games fun does not always emerge from doing the correct or most efficient things. Otherwise no one will try the 9xSRM6 Archer in three months.


- Players are following their light mechs
I mainly use light mechs because i like being flexible. And besides scouting, lights are built to flank the enemy. To do this, we check out all directions to first find victims and then harass them. For us, there is no CW or CCW, we go where we can shoot the enemy without being shot back.

The fact that the deadliest light armament is symmetric (like the 6x slas/splas loadout) make us also independent of moving direction. The ball of death is for assaults, heavies and mediums, most lights are way more effective outside the ball trying to divert the enemy's attention on two fronts, so the Ball can push more easily.

The problem here is: The ball of death follows us in almost every third match! They don't see that the blue arrows they are following on their map are much faster mechs than themselves who want to be alone. And of cause this can lead to us lights unintentionally creating a CW movement.


- Some players don't know that CCW is more efficient
And speaking of symmetric light loadouts: There are a lot of other mechs where moving direction is not important. And if you happen to get in a team with many of those, going CW is not unusual. Don't forget: PUG-Matches are not competitive, players drive their mechs for fun, not for perfect effectiveness. So even when a player's mech is slightly right-loaded, they simply don't think much about it. That's because even when going CW, they manage to find cover to fire with their right side, like lone rocks or buildings.

In fact i played since beta and never cared or heared about CW/CCW until today. Sure, when i drive a right-loaded mech i intuitively tend CCW. But i never expect my whole team to do the same. It was totally okay for me to go CW, i always found my lone rock to fire my strong side from.


So my advice for you is:
When pugging expect nothing. When the mob goes CW, deal with it and do your best with the situation. And as you could see from our recent River City match, we still managed to win 12-4 despite going CW. It may be less efficient, but that's not the main point of pugging.
If you want efficiency, don't pug and look for a group instead.

Edited by Daggett, 04 January 2016 - 03:55 PM.

[Vlad Striker]

It's important because it's team-based game. When team does not care about it's members and members does not plays their roles that team lose vs solid-state team.
So when faster mech run away from slower and have not LOS to slower then they lose battlefield control. Slow mechs will have quickly destroyed by enemies and team will lose good firepower and so on as avalanche.

Edited by Vlad Striker, 04 January 2016 - 03:17 PM.

[Daggett]

Vlad Striker, on 04 January 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

So when faster mech run away from slower and have not LOS to slower then they lose battlefield control. Slow mechs will have quickly destroyed by enemies and team will lose good firepower and so on as avalanche.

I'd like to differentiate here. Sure, mediums and heavies should stick near the assaults. When the assault lance is left behind, mediums and heavies are to blame, but not the lights.

Lights operating on the flanks increase battlefield control, even without LOS. The trick is to know the map, your escape routes and to always keep an eye on the battlegrid to get a sense where the enemy is moving and if and where the enemy is pushing.

If that happens (or your assault lance indeed was left behind) you can either get back in time to help out. Or you can get aggressive yourself and detract the pushing (and therefore distracted) enemy enough so your mob can hold it's line. I can't count how many mechs i catched off-guard because they were concentrating on pushing and shooting and don't expect fire from their rear side.

Of cause mediums are too slow to do that, that's why they should stay near their heavier mechs and protect them. But demanding fast lights to stay inside the death ball will neuter all their positive traits and decrease the chance of winning.

Edited by Daggett, 04 January 2016 - 03:49 PM.