40 replies to this topic

[Chados]

I'm 25-59 in 84 matches with a K/D ratio of 0.04. But I'm beginning to get it. Slooowwwwlllyyy.

I started out with trial mechs and then upgraded to a Jäger. I got murdered. Again and again and again. In seconds. Every drop. And I can't hit a damn thing. I can't even see who's killing me. It was frustrating. So, speed is life. Had to give lights a go, or Cicadas, which are glorified lights. And discovered hardware limitations...I get this weird jitteriness in anything under 65 tons and have to keep mashing "C" to stop it. It is especially annoying when firing anything with recoil, because I bounce like a rubber ball. Still getting wiped out in seconds. And I get motion sick, because of the speed of movement on the screen. And it just doesn't feel right. Not my style. I'm doing 25-30 damage/drop. I'm about to hang it up.

Met up with some great guys from the 9th Sword of the Dragon. One took the time to school me a little on light tactics. I plan to drop with them more. Returned to the Oceanic event with a vengeance. Discovered I really, really don't have the aptitude for lights.

Then...found a weapon I like. Don't scream.

LRMs. Sacrilege!

Messing around with trial mechs again, loaded with them. Began to see the ways they can be used. Firing dumb when you are blind from ECM. Firing in direct line of sight, like PPCs you can get a lock with. And shooting indirect when getting sniped by people I can't see.

Screw it. I cleaned out my tiny inventory and bought a C1 Catapult. Well, I was running PUGs til late. I've got more total matches in the Cat now than in the others I've tried. And...it was the wise choice, because I think I've found my mode! Heavies answer a little better for me, it seems. I don't get the jitters or motion-sick. I'm armored enough to stay in the fight a little longer, as I went with endo-steel and piled on almost the max armor a Cat can carry, along with Artemis, BAP, and an AMS. Decided that one really set up mech is better than saving for three...we can do that when I can consistently survive PUG drops.

And the long range fire support role is answering too, my average damage/match is triple what it has been and I got a kill raining hot death on an enemy mech...2xLRM15+Artemis is nasty when you have line of sight to an unprotected target. It's only my third kill in 84 drops and my number of assists/drop has tripled too, leading to an achievement on the heavy assist tree last night. And I'm on the winning side more often!

I feel like I'm slowly getting a little better. For the first time, when I get dead I can see how...I get swarmed by lights, meaning I was out of position. Or I blunder into an enemy formation, ditto. Or the one instance I got hunted down by an Uller in bright red after I hammered his buddy off of an allied assault mech and subsequently got abandoned by my team...I tore him up with my med lasers but I'm still learning how to deal with faster enemies circle-jerking me. I've managed to get all but two of the basic Cat C1 skill boxes ticked off.

Stick with it, fellow sucky noobs. It's a slooooooooow grind for most of us blue-collar types and it is hard to find your niche. In the old GEnie and MW2 days I was into autocannons. I'm learning a new way...the way of the missile. It really is more than hiding behind cover, though when the chips are down that can keep you in the fight a little longer. Yeah, I know, LRMs are déclassé and "serious" warriors avoid them like plague. But if I hadn't re-discovered them, I'd probably have decided that MWO ain't my cup of tea. And I'm not always shooting from reverse slope. I'll wade in and mix it up, and use them like PPCs you can lock on with.

I haven't given up lasers...I have four. You need them for those times when you're fighting a rear-guard action against a King Crab and a Mad Cat mobbing you when you've been abandoned by your lance mates...again...and you're trying to slow them down so your pals can get that last resource base. I went down, but I went down fighting and when they moved on it was without CT armor. And we won the match! Yeah, I get that sometimes you can't work from a distance. But man, I wish you could put Clanner LRMs on a Catapult. Yeah, I suppose I could roll with a Vulture. Maybe when I get better.

PGI, if you all read this, this noob would ask for IS LRMs to arm in 90 meters rather than 180 and for IS BAP+Artemis to debuff ECM from *outside* A-LRM min range. Perhaps a "counter" mode like ECM counter, or something that would let you shoot LRMs from say 500 meters. Those things would make BAP and Artemis combined something really helpful for mechs that can't pack ECM and encourage LRM pilots not to shoot indirect all the time. It's also too bad that UAVs are so expensive. Can't afford those yet. But it's on my to-do list.

[Chados]

And since I'm two slots from finishing out the basics on the C1, I bought Catapult Mastery because I want to try the A1 after I get the basics done on the C1 and you can't buy a champion mech with Cbills Plus the stock A1(C) is set up exactly like my C1, except for ASRMs instead of MLasers.

All this because (1) the 9SO took pity on a poor struggling noob who showed up in their Teamspeak uninvited-thanks, guys, you all were tops-and (2) I had fun all night with the C1 Cat and the evil LRM. Now I want to master the chassis...and get better with direct firing mechs too (hence the K2 and J, currently set aside to be saved for much, much, much later).

Hang in there, fellow struggling noobs. It gets better. Be prepared to spend a little actual cash for the hobby, and keep plugging til you find something fun. It's there. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and it isn't necessarily the LIRR express.

Edited by Chados, 09 August 2015 - 07:22 AM.

[Nyuuu]

I don't fully understand what you mean by jitter but did you try to (massively) lower your mouse sensitivity?
It should be below 0.2 if you are using a high dpi mouse.

Sounds a little to me like that might be your problem.

Edited by Nyuuu, 09 August 2015 - 07:44 AM.

[Chados]

I did, and I haven't a clue what it is. Something's literally making the torso of a light mech shake. Others have seen it. It's got to be a hardware issue. I don't have the issue in 50-65+ tonners (tried a Hunchback 4G along the journey to the Cat and absolutely hated it but it didn't have the shakes) so I've got some kind of issue with either operator headspace or setting somewhere. Ah, well. I like heavies better anyway. They suit me much better.

[Vlad Striker]

By the lore IS LRM have min range 6 hexes ~ 180m. It's very simple to use but LRM is an auxiliary weapon. But you will have more c-bills for assists, component destruction etc.

Edited by Vlad Striker, 09 August 2015 - 07:53 AM.

[Chados]

I know, I know. But a gal can dream....

[Elizander]

I finished mastering my Catapult C1 this weekend and I run it with 275XL, 2 LRM15+A, 6 tons ammo, 3 ML and 1 TAG. I have a BAP in there too and some JJs. I try not to indirect fire unless I have to or I'm sure the target is out in the open. I prefer to wait for a push then come out with Tag and Artemis all working on the targets I fire at.

[Eaerie]

What is your framerate while in game? Hit F9 and it should bring that info up in the top right corner. When i first started playing i wa on a real old computer and when in a light with everything zipping by at 150kph my framerate would drop to almost nothing. Had to give lights up for a while and run bigger slower mechs.
As for your weapon of choice, LRM's are concidered "noob" weapons by a lot of higher end people but they have uses mainly as a suppresion weapon to keep enemies in cover and punish ones that dont stay there.
Laser weapons would probably be the next set of weapons to practice on, they ahve beam times so are a lot easier to hit your target even if the beam scatters across there whole body or partially misses. AC's and PPC's are both great for pin point direct damage but take some work to adjust to projectile speed and leading targets properly not to mention the large amounts of heat generated by PPCs

[Palor]

Welcome to MWO and it is great to see that you stuck with it and kept trying till you found your niche in this overwhelmingly noob unfriendly game.

Mastering the Mechs you enjoy is also a superb decision, you will get much more out of a mastered mech then having a bunch of non-mastered mechs.

[Chados]

Eaerie, on 09 August 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

What is your framerate while in game?

I'll check this next time I play. I suspect I'm using a substandard machine, as you suggest.

All, thanks for the tips and props.

[DAYLEET]

PGI Should give a single stat reset for the new people playing that they can use after some times but not too early. It's hard at first and depressing to see your stats being dragged down by your past. Most of us we're lucky to get a reset when they revamped whatever i dont remember. Clearing my locust stats that i grinded at the Phoenix launch must have raised my win and kd by 0.50 lol

Maybe when you make your first MC/gift store purchase.

Edited by DAYLEET, 09 August 2015 - 09:43 AM.

[loopala]

welcome to the the missleers. catapults can be very effective mechs in the own right. once you get them mastered, a bit of the old LRMishing type of play style becomes a bit more likely, you can't hide in the back for ever. stick with it and you will get much better.

here is a bit of LRMishing with a very good pug lance. notice how targets are locked and the jag stays were he can provide cover fire. also notice that i needed much more practice with the MLs




this one is is a bit slow for the first 8 min.just a cplt c4 getting into a good over watch position and providing fire support. once the team gets killed the cplt returns to base (back when bases had turrets) and the reds get dumb and try hunting down a cplt one at at time. the cplt c4 may be a support mech but once you get the hang of it between 180m and 300m it is a very deadly. just keep sticking moving and jj dancing



stick with it, you know you have crossed the line into total crazy when you load LRMs on to a locust

edited due to rereading when i had time to read it and realized i need to re read stuff more often

Edited by loopala, 09 August 2015 - 06:58 PM.

[El Maestro]

Hi man,


the C1 is my personal favourite, try swapping 1 med laser for a tag laser so you can target enemies under ECM if you have line of sight. When you have enough c-bills buy the Target decay module (it will keep locks longer after line of sight is broken)

Good luck!


grtz
El Maestro
CO, Phoenix Dominion

[LeucippusK]

As a born again pilot, I feel ya. This is by far the best mech warrior game so far, just my opinion.

[Chados]

I'm in a place I can't stream video til Wednesday, LOL (work trip) but I'll check those videos when I get back. Thanks for the responses, guys.

[MechWarrior3671771]

[...Pssst! Hey, don't listen to the LRM-deniers. I ran them my first 3 months and they were a great way to be introduced into the game, learn maps, watch formations, etc. As you get better, you'll get pushed into matches with tougher opponents, and at some point down that road you'll discover the enemy knows how to render LRMs ineffective, but its lots of fun in the meantime. YMMV, but it was 4 months of missile rain for me, and was a blast.]

[Koniving]

Vlad Striker, on 09 August 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

By the lore IS LRM have min range 6 hexes ~ 180m. It's very simple to use but LRM is an auxiliary weapon. But you will have more c-bills for assists, component destruction etc.

That is intended in Battletech as a minimum accuracy range. Not an actual minimum range as a hit at 30 meters is still full damage. There is no lack of damage dealt. (Sorry; that misconception always irks me and PGI's holding of it gives the Clans an unnecessary and unfair advantage in MWO in terms of LRMs as well as a really weird and silly set of mechanics). Much akin to arm-held ballistics (AC/2 and AC/5), Gauss Rifle min range, and PPC minimum accuracy range.

That is because they are written to fire like this. (Note high quality animated missile gif in first spoiler.)

Spoiler

Below is more to back it up. While it applies to Battletech, sadly it was blatantly ignored for MWO and ~most~ Mechwarrior games.

Spoiler

Middle column, bottom of the line. It's because LRMs are supposed to be fired at a ballistic launch angle (upward) into the sky akin to Howitzer / MLRS rockets.

In fact, the inspiring concept of the 1984-1987 writing there of the first/second generation description as well as the Catapult is the Multiple Launch Rocket System as a field artillery.
Arrow IV and Homing LRM concept are based on the ATACMS.


The Artemis-enhanced LRMs/SRMs are based on the "Smart Rockets" mentioned. Notice the emphasis of "accurate to 30 feet, to a distance of 180 miles." The chosen number in Battletech in regards to missiles is 180 meters, and the chosen distance of each hex is 30 meters. "Battledroids" later Battletech originally started with infantry and vehicles and the mechs came later; and that was the big selling point that got it to take off. (MLRS technology has been left unchanged since early 1980s and most MLRS in service are from that time; between this and many anime sources came much of BT's origins.

Such as the Shadowhawk, which came from an anime.

Came from the Dougram. (Also note the artist: William H. Keith. As in the first Battletech Novelist). He also wrote the explanation on PPCs and LRM min ranges up there in the columns.


Comparison of Shadowhawk / Dougram scale to MWO's Shadowhawk.

This is also why LRMs have trouble hitting at close range.

Spoiler

MWO's Shadowhawk...

Wolverine; also a 55 tonner that is supposed to be larger than a Shadowhawk (due to loads more armor on all of its variants; armor that often rivals even mechs that are 10 to 25 tons heavier than itself.)

Thunderbolt, 65 tons.

Scaled Timber Wolf Notice the helmet inside the cockpit.

(My point is the mechs are supposed to be a LOT smaller than they are in MWO; in favor of LRMs have 180 min accuracy range because hard to hit at close range when meant to be lobbed into the air).

So in BT, IS mechs using LRMs were always set to fire their LRMs into the sky. Since standard LRMs don't track terribly well and the missiles are supposed to fire at upward angles of 30 to 80 degrees, you could miss that target.

I showcase this example.
This tank with 4 LRM-5 launchers.

Attacked multiple targets in 10 seconds while tracked (unable to move).

Twin AC/10s to the back of the Atlas from its turret. To each of the attacked Enforcers, a single volley of LRM-5 from 1 launcher per target. Only the extreme right is missed, due to the angle of the attack and lack of time for the missiles to make the turn. Remember each hex is 30 meters. That means targets of 90 meters -- hit, 180, hit, 210, hit. The 60 meter target -- missed due more to the angle than much else (as the pilot had incredible gunnery skill).

Accuracy.

Now Clan mechs don't believe in indirect fire and so instead, their LRMs are fired directly at the enemy with little to no arc and no intention of lobbing them over buildings. Thus no min range -- they fire in your face.
--------
Now:
Circa 1994, the excuse of "not arming until 180 meters" was a misconception of the newly introduced "Hotloaded" trait, where you could preload the missiles -- as apparently according to this trait Inner Sphere LRMs always start unloaded, and will chamber into the launchers ~After~ you acquire a target and intend to use them -- thus the 180 meter limit (and Clans don't have this because they are always chambered and ready to explode). They will always render full damage even at point blank range -- the issue is they are not likely to hit. This is meant to explain away the "why not just point directly at them instead?" logic, as well as force the "Hotloaded" trait to be a difficult choice rather than a "I'll just aim now... okay I'll lob instead now" toggle.

<.<
Sorry, carry on. Just like to fix that misconception whenever possible.
--------------------------------------
To Chados-- Welcome to MWO.

I'll have advice for you tomorrow. Or I could even go into some matches alongside you with my LRM mechs. If possible I'll see if I can get Fatal to join us; her savage brawling techniques can help support your LRM'ing and vice-versa. I can also tag team with you for plenty of direct fire slaughter or go in as a tank for you. Look forward to helping you out or perhaps even seeing you in the field.

(This vid has Rie and Fatal as brand new players [within a week of starting] with an escort mission for a stock build of mine to help them learn some cohesive gameplay strategies. This one is much later, watch after my glorified suicide to see progress. And my own LRM playstyle [when not boating])

Edited by Koniving, 09 August 2015 - 02:48 PM.

[Chados]

Wow, that would be fun indeed! I'll be back from my trip mid-week, and hope to be able to hook up

[bad arcade kitty]

Chados, on 09 August 2015 - 04:31 AM, said:

I started out with trial mechs and then upgraded to a Jäger. I got murdered. Again and again and again. In seconds. Every drop. And I can't hit a damn thing. I can't even see who's killing me. It was frustrating.

it's largely related to positioning and goes better pretty soon. im a newish player too (my post count is high because i have too much free time on my job :3), i usually pilot a streakcrow which, while having c-xl and an amazing hitboxes, just a 55 tonner and has to be closer than 360 meters to do any damage, and i was killed in seconds i think once in many many dozens of drops, several games ago, it was when i (also not completely fresh, already with a yellow armor after i tanked and with some team help burned a stray timber wolf) peeked right into ~10 mechs standing in a row.... it was painful; i consider it as my mistake btw, it wasn't my job to scout and i peeked from a too obvious place as well

don't disconnect after you die, watch other people playing and ignore largely how they aim and shoot etc flashy stuff, pay the main attention where they go and why they go there and if it helps them to live and kill or makes them die

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So, speed is life. Had to give lights a go, or Cicadas, which are glorified lights. And discovered hardware limitations...I get this weird jitteriness in anything under 65 tons and have to keep mashing "C" to stop it. It is especially annoying when firing anything with recoil, because I bounce like a rubber ball. Still getting wiped out in seconds. And I get motion sick, because of the speed of movement on the screen. And it just doesn't feel right. Not my style. I'm doing 25-30 damage/drop. I'm about to hang it up.

hmmm, i had your jittering problem and i agree, it seems as a hardware-related problem, i had a similar jitter before i upgraded my hardware, the screen shook to and fro, it stopped with switching arm lock and iirc with 'c' too, not sure; it was arm lock related; if your gpu is old consider to get at least something like gtx 750 (ti), all pci-e gpus should be interchangeable

anyway install the most fresh drivers, it may help; consider to contact their technical support but imo they probably cannot help you

Quote

Screw it. I cleaned out my tiny inventory and bought a C1 Catapult.

of sphere mechs you would better buy hbk-4j and fit it like on this page http://metamechs.com...ides/hunchback/, it has a ridiculous lrm-10 quirk and with a cooldown module (also being elited) its 2 lrm-10 shoot as 6 lrm-10, as 4 without the module (modules are on sale btw) and the elite skill

of clan mechs, mad dog would be much better too, i would build a mdd into lurms as something like this (just a blueprint, as an option i could ditch artemis for heat sinks)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...725d431f2e16d5b

6 lrm-5 make a terrifying lrm boat because they largely hit central torso, the larger the launcher the more it spreads the damage across the mech; 4 medium lasers allow it to defend itself at closer ranges, tag, also active probe helps vs the rampant ecms, much like your cat, you can use lrm vs their heavier mechs while an enemy ecm light is fighting your teammates nearby, it also has some detection bonuses; it's a pretty hot build, lurms should be chained/fired in groups to avoid the ghost heat, med lasers should be fired in groups too

also you can always fit mdd in other roles too - 6 (s)srm-6, 2 uac-10 etc

Quote

Yeah, I know, LRMs are déclassé and "serious" warriors avoid them like plague.

they may be pretty effective, especially for a new player, but later you will probably find them much less effective then now

generally they are suggested to new players to be avoided because they may teach you some bad habits like being too passive, not because they are not effective; a couple of lrm boats on a team is fine but if there is a few of them and all they stand and wait for locks it ends in a disaster

Quote

I haven't given up lasers...I have four. You need them for those times when you're fighting a rear-guard action against a King Crab and a Mad Cat mobbing you when you've been abandoned by your lance mates...again...and you're trying to slow them down so your pals can get that last resource base.

positioning is a key skill for a lrm boat; not sure what you mean by abandoned, you could follow them, you honestly cannot expect people guarding you, you are at best have the same damage as any direct fire build, not a special asset in the team damage... but you cannot always stick to your team too because you have to find a good shooting position which sometimes means wandering alone and a pack of lights/meds is always glad to visit any lone lrmboat...

Quote

PGI, if you all read this, this noob would ask for IS LRMs to arm in 90 meters rather than 180 and for IS BAP+Artemis to debuff ECM from *outside* A-LRM min range. Perhaps a "counter" mode like ECM counter, or something that would let you shoot LRMs from say 500 meters. Those things would make BAP and Artemis combined something really helpful for mechs that can't pack ECM and encourage LRM pilots not to shoot indirect all the time.

to counter ecm from afar you need a tag laser

Quote

It's also too bad that UAVs are so expensive. Can't afford those yet. But it's on my to-do list.

use free event ones, you can get a few of them right now
don't buy your own, they always hit your purse, till you have a plenty of c-bills and all the mechs that you need use only free event uavs

[Ascaloth]

Hey buddy, check this awesome guide about LRM use:

http://mwomercs.com/...lrm-boat-pilot/

It was made by a LRM veteran able to wreck even good pilots - i've seen this many, many times with my own eyes, i'm her wingman