59 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

El Bandito, on 09 August 2015 - 10:40 PM, said:

The entire reason why super-quirked mechs exist is due to the clear disparity between Clan tech and IS tech. Unless PGI does a complete re-balancing of them, the hyper quirks will likely to stay, I am afraid. So yeah, blame PGI and blame their shoddy and hasty implementation of the Clans.

Oh sry, when was the date they switched the Nova to IS?


Quirks exist because they want to bring mechs in line, and they started with IS mechs because all the IS whine and becasue they expected more whine if they isntantly also had quirks for the shafted clanmechs.

[El Bandito]

Lily from animove, on 10 August 2015 - 03:03 AM, said:

Oh sry, when was the date they switched the Nova to IS?

Quirks exist because they want to bring mechs in line, and they started with IS mechs because all the IS whine and becasue they expected more whine if they isntantly also had quirks for the shafted clanmechs.

As I said before:

Clan tech is better than IS overall. This is an indisputable truth. Otherwise, the best non-quirked IS mechs could perform as well as the best pre-nerf Clan mechs. But that is not the case. The arrival of Clans had jacked up the power creep so much so the previously competitive IS mechs were left in the dust during Invasion I. Currently PGI is holding the balance in place with the "+/- quirk" bandage, and they keep piling layer upon layer of it.

Instead PGI should redo the whole balancing from scratch and do some drastic change such as making Clan mechs able to add or remove Endo/Ferro/JJs to boost low performing Clan mechs while giving IS tech huge buffs such as Clan XL equivalent XL engine (LFE does not count, since it is still a "poor man's Clan XL"), and make sure there will be no clear cut advantage on weapon/equipment on either side, such as 2 slot Clan DHS performing the same as 3 slot IS DHS, or 12 tons CGauss performing the same as 15 tons IS Gauss.


You are a sadly deluded person if you think quirks are solely the result of IS players' whining. It was actually a necessity at the time to give IS at least some fighting chance.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 August 2015 - 03:32 AM.

[STEF_]

QuantumButler, on 10 August 2015 - 01:57 AM, said:

Don't assume people who prefer not to drive terrible piles of scrap only drive metamechs.

I like to drive hunchbacks and centurions, but the Highlander is a good contender for the crown of worst assault in the game, it doesn't even compare favorably to the Awesome or Victor, let alone the actual good robots of Stalker, Zeus, and King Crab.

I mean, we all have our waifu ****mechs, that's fine, we can even do well in them, I love the Centurions, but the highlander is really just a pile of hot garbage, the mech equivalent of a MWO flamer.

It is less garbage than I thought and read, that's why I'm enjoying them.

I'm really surprised to have a lot of dmg and k with them.

Indeed, a 90 tonner can have the weaponry to melt faces.

They aren't easy mode, I can agree with this.
But I like to have my weaponry in the right side/arm, and protect it (--->I like Cents too, btw).
Another good thing I like is this: while stalker have 78° about torso movement, highlander has 108°+20° for arms. That's a huge difference! (for instance 3(er)LL+gauss in misery is quite weird in close range, while the highlander can do pretty well).

[Widowmaker1981]

El Bandito, on 10 August 2015 - 03:27 AM, said:

As I said before:

Clan tech is better than IS overall. This is an indisputable truth. Otherwise, the best non-quirked IS mechs could perform as well as the best pre-nerf Clan mechs. But that is not the case. The arrival of Clans had jacked up the power creep so much so the previously competitive IS mechs were left in the dust during Invasion I. Currently PGI is holding the balance in place with the "+/- quirk" bandage, and they keep piling layer upon layer of it.

Instead PGI should redo the whole balancing from scratch and do some drastic change such as making Clan mechs able to add or remove Endo/Ferro/JJs to boost low performing Clan mechs while giving IS tech huge buffs such as Clan XL equivalent XL engine (LFE does not count, since it is still a "poor man's Clan XL"), and make sure there will be no clear cut advantage on weapon/equipment on either side, such as 2 slot Clan DHS performing the same as 3 slot IS DHS, or 12 tons CGauss performing the same as 15 tons IS Gauss.


You are a sadly deluded person if you think quirks are solely the result of IS players' whining. It was actually a necessity at the time to give IS at least some fighting chance.

While all of this is true, if you were to buff all the IS equipment so as to achieve parity with its counterpart, i assume you would also be fine with allowing clan mechs to change engines (as well as unlocked endo/ferro) and remove locked DHS?
Since otherwise they would just be inferior due to poor engine choices in 100% of cases (obviously some have worse choices than others).

I personally dont like that, since with the omnipod system it would basically just turn clan mechs into a tonnage and nothing more, you could do practically any build on any chassis. I prefer to keep them locked for 'personality' and quirk as needed.

[El Bandito]

Widowmaker1981, on 10 August 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

While all of this is true, if you were to buff all the IS equipment so as to achieve parity with its counterpart, i assume you would also be fine with allowing clan mechs to change engines (as well as unlocked endo/ferro) and remove locked DHS?
Since otherwise they would just be inferior due to poor engine choices in 100% of cases (obviously some have worse choices than others).

Fine by me--as stated in my previous post. As long as both tech levels are equally competitive given their best non-quirked mechs. The lower ranking mechs can receive positive quirks. Right now quirks are simply sad reminders of how bad the IS tech is.

Widowmaker1981, on 10 August 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

I personally dont like that, since with the omnipod system it would basically just turn clan mechs into a tonnage and nothing more, you could do practically any build on any chassis. I prefer to keep them locked for 'personality' and quirk as needed.

Yes, omni mechs do lack personality due to their omni-pod system. But trying to balance it without unlocking the fixed equipments will just repeat the current folly.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 August 2015 - 04:16 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

El Bandito, on 10 August 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

Yes, omni mechs do lack personality due to their omni-pod system. But trying to balance it without unlocking the fixed equipments will just repeat the current folly.

I dont see the current system as folly though. There are obviously some issues with some values, but i like the current system. I also dont think there is an issue with TTK, so take from that what you will.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 10 August 2015 - 03:27 AM, said:

You are a sadly deluded person if you think quirks are solely the result of IS players' whining. It was actually a necessity at the time to give IS at least some fighting chance.

I think it was more of a point that Inner Sphere players didn't want to have a tough time Against Clans.

Better Players beat me more often that better mechs. And better players in better Mechs beat me even more. That seems fair and balanced to me!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 10 August 2015 - 04:33 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

I played my Highlander in a match the other night and was quite surprised with it's performance, did quite well. Will play again.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 August 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

I think it was more of a point that Inner Sphere players didn't want to have a tough time Against Clans.

Better Players beat me more often that better mechs. And better players in better Mechs beat me even more. That seems fair and balanced to me!

1. Asymmetrical balance with same number of players per side is what PGI is after, from the day Clans were included in this game. You wanna blame someone, you blame PGI's decision, not the IS players.

2. One side having better mechs than the other side thanks to their tech will cause all kinds of negative side effects such as imbalanced population, which is a big no-no in a game where PGI is trying to have equal population. Hence the whole quirks.

PGI still has ways to go to address the issue before Steam release, or this game will suffer badly in the ratings/reviews.

Widowmaker1981, on 10 August 2015 - 04:24 AM, said:

I dont see the current system as folly though. There are obviously some issues with some values, but i like the current system. I also dont think there is an issue with TTK, so take from that what you will.

You are entitled to your opinion. I personally believe PGI is being lazy in the cross tech balancing department. Quirks are the clearest proof.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 August 2015 - 05:21 AM.

[Lugh]

TwentyOne, on 09 August 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

Why is my favorite heavy so ******* bad?

Maybe your bad, and you should be sad? It's an Assault by the way not a heavy .

[Speedy Plysitkos]

bye bye IS H ? no no no no no.

Im just grinding cbills to get my first eva 732-B fortress. so go away.

Edited by Titannium, 10 August 2015 - 06:10 AM.

[NeoCodex]

I'm interested to hear how many of those that trash talk HGN so much have actually played them since the recent buff because there's quite a few contenders in this thread (me included) that have used this mech (732B, 733C and HM) in solo queue exceptionaly well, beyond all expectations.

And I was on the same boat thinking it's the worst assault before giving it a try. I would actually prefer taking them over some of the Stalker and Zeus variants. Certainly over an Awesome any day, but then again I never tried the Awesome. It's without a doubt much better than a Gargoyle, how can somebody say it's worse than Gargles? I'm not even sure what to think of Atlases, at this point probably worse too. And Victors? Only the 9K can sucessfully mimic the HM build, whilst being a lot more fragile with somewhat better mobility. If you ask me, I'd take the HM over 9K every day. And on DS it doesnt' seem viable to run anything else than PPC/AC combo which glory days are over, but I would say it still does it better than for example 733C. However, Gauss/3L builds on HGN are comparable, if not better (In my opinion they are).

I'm only on par with the Executioner - the masc is really fun and useful, but the Gauss/3L laser build feels a lot better to me than what clan tech offers. Executioner might be better tough. A bit more hot, longer burn time, more agile, more fragile. But really. If we can compare these two, why would Highlander be bad? Gauss/3L has slightly lower dps than the Gauss/6ERM but shorter burn time on lasers (it is noticable) with slightly longer range and lower heat. Low slung hardpoints are about the same, Executioner barely has an improvement with the nipple gun, but convergence difference between the arm mounts is therefore much wider than on the Highlander, which makes aiming feel a lot more clunky. And let's not forget all that additional armor/structure.

So after playing it, and thinking more about it, it really feels more than average, and far from bad. You should really give them a try, test it out and compare after a few matches. It's far from a KGC, BNC and DWF, but it's certainly not at the bottom half (or quarter) of the barrel that the so very popular opinion on these forums is. I might be a bit overhyping it for what it is, but considering how bad it is regarded, it did need some good words to give at least some perspective, that it's not the worst thing ever created.

Edited by NeoCodex, 10 August 2015 - 06:18 AM.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Titannium, on 10 August 2015 - 01:04 AM, said:

if you are talking about CW leets, then yes. But 97% of mwo pop, dont play cw.
And in regular play, its good to pilot any mech. You can be good in all. 90% is in pilot. 10% in metal.

i used my Heavy Metal twice in CW(ran a full hero mech drop deck because c-billz are nice),both time i ran out of gauss ammo (i use 5 tons in CW) before i was killed. 1200ish damage both times.

Gauss + 3 LPL is not something to laugh at. Works well in Grim Portico and Hellebore.

[STEF_]

NeoCodex, on 10 August 2015 - 06:06 AM, said:

words

^^
wise words.

I'm going to do a thread about the Highlanders, after mastering 2

[El Bandito]

NeoCodex, on 10 August 2015 - 06:06 AM, said:

So after playing it, and thinking more about it, it really feels more than average, and far from bad. You should really give them a try, test it out and compare after a few matches. It's far from a KGC, BNC and DWF, but it's certainly not at the bottom half (or quarter) of the barrel that the so very popular opinion on these forums is. I might be a bit overhyping it for what it is, but considering how bad it is regarded, it did need some good words to give at least some perspective, that it's not the worst thing ever created.

The thread was originally about how the Highlander IIC and the Mauler will obsolete the original HGN--which I agree, on the IIC part, at least. Sure, one can have good matches with the original HGN, and indeed it was one of the best meta mech in the poptarting heyday, but right now its closest relatives--the Banshee, the Stalker and the Battlemaster--have already surpassed it.

Meaning, the HGN is already a sub-par choice that is about to get even lower down the ladder, unless PGI derps on the Mauler's modeling. There is even a Mauler variant (2P) with three energy points on each arms, in addition to ballistic slots on both STs. Single Gauss + lasers will not out perform dual Gauss + lasers.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 August 2015 - 08:08 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Hit the Deck, on 09 August 2015 - 05:10 PM, said:

The JJs on IS HGN are pretty useful. Just put a big XL engine so you can mount them.

I wish they were. I remember a time not too long ago when they were really useful...

[xXBagheeraXx]

The Fk's a Highlander?

[Scout Derek]

Titannium, on 10 August 2015 - 05:56 AM, said:

bye bye IS H ? no no no no no.

Im just grinding cbills to get my first eva 732-B fortress. so go away.

Ok, I'll remember that when you're in a highlander and I in a highlander iic as I blast away armor with dual uac 10s or srm 24 artemis.

[Hit the Deck]

Mister Blastman, on 10 August 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

I wish they were. I remember a time not too long ago when they were really useful...

They are still useful ATM. Four of those Class I JJs (733C, HM) can get you to almost anywhere on a map, e.g. those tall buildings on River City (including the Citadel of course) or Mining Colony. Can also be used to enable poptart mode with (ER)PPCs.

[Mister Blastman]

Hit the Deck, on 10 August 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

They are still useful ATM. Four of those Class I JJs (733C, HM) can get you to almost anywhere on a map, e.g. those tall buildings on River City (including the Citadel of course) or Mining Colony. Can also be used to enable poptart mode with (ER)PPCs.

Meh. They are so slow compared with how they used to be. The halving of the re-charge rate hurt them tremendously.