16 replies to this topic

[Kristian Radoulov]

In MW2/3/4 the TBR when stripped of everything but its engine weighs in at 30.0 tons



while the MWO TBR weighs in at 35.5




Does anyone have an explanation for this or did PGI arbitrarily pre-nerf the TBR?

Edited by Kristian Radoulov, 11 August 2015 - 10:10 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Kristian Radoulov, on 11 August 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

In MW2/3/4 the TBR when stripped of everything but its engine weighs in at 30.0 tons



while the MWO TBR weighs in at 35.5




Does anyone have an explanation for this or did PGI arbitrarily pre-nerf the TBR?

Did you account for the 5 DHS in the engine?

[Revis Volek]

Gas Ninja'd me!

Edited by DarthRevis, 11 August 2015 - 10:14 AM.

[Mcgral18]

The TBR follows construction rules aside from JJs, which other games do not.

Armour and 5 heatsinks account for the weight difference. I assume that games doesn't follow Omni rules, and you removed the hardwired heatsinks.

[Lugh]

Check your engine tab. I betcha that the engine in the previous is an XL375 that does NOT have any locked 5 tons of DHS in it.

[Kristian Radoulov]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 August 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

Did you account for the 5 DHS in the engine?

Are you saying that previous versions of the game did not follow the rules of engines having to have heat sinks?

[Mcgral18]

Kristian Radoulov, on 11 August 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

Are you saying that previous versions of the game did not follow the rules of engines having to have heat sinks?

Pretty sure you could remove everything, and even change the engine in MW3.



You picked a game which doesn't follow TT rules, while MWO does in this case.

[Lugh]

Kristian Radoulov, on 11 August 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

Are you saying that previous versions of the game did not follow the rules of engines having to have heat sinks?

That might just be exactly what he's saying.

[ProfessorD]

Kristian Radoulov, on 11 August 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

Are you saying that previous versions of the game did not follow the rules of engines having to have heat sinks?

Yep, that's what we're saying. The 5 in the Tinberwolf's engine are hard-wired to the chassis.

EDIT: Epic choice throwing down the triple facepalm right as a triple reply is happening. Well played Lugh, 10/10.

Edited by ProfessorD, 11 August 2015 - 10:17 AM.

[Revis Volek]

ProfessorD, on 11 August 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

Yep, that's what we're saying. The 5 in the Tinberwolf's engine are hard-wired to the chassis.

EDIT: Epic choice throwing down the triple facepalm right as a triple reply is happening. Well played Lugh, 10/10.

and if you use the S Torso's you get more hardwired tonnage from the JJ's

Edited by DarthRevis, 11 August 2015 - 10:17 AM.

[Kristian Radoulov]

Ok, cool. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Matthew Ace]

5 tons - Engine Heat Sinks
0.5 ton - Fractional Accounting; Endo and Engine lighter by 0.25 ton each, which was used for ER Small laser. This was revised in 3050U IIRC.

I'm never fond of the removal of fractional accounting as a standard rule.

Edited by Matthew Ace, 11 August 2015 - 10:31 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Kristian Radoulov, on 11 August 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

Ok, cool. Thanks for clearing that up.

Yeah, the TBR in MWO has 5 DHS (on top of the 10 required) locked into the engine. I don't know if the others had that...

[Kristian Radoulov]

Matthew Ace, on 11 August 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

5 tons - Engine Heat Sinks
0.5 ton - Fractional Accounting; Endo and Engine lighter by 0.25 ton each, which was used for ER Small laser. This was revised in 3050U IIRC.

I'm never fond of the removal of fractional accounting as a standard rule.

Not going to lie, I miss that half ton. My TBR builds feel just wrong. :-/

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 11 August 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

Pretty sure you could remove everything, and even change the engine in MW3.



You picked a game which doesn't follow TT rules, while MWO does in this case.

Well, every MW game had broken the TT rules in some form.

The earlier MW2 games (for DOS/Win95) didn't have HS in the engine until a later revision (Titanium and/or Mercs). However, the tonnage was accounted for.

MW4... well, that is what it is.

MW3 had differences like Artemis only needing being equipped in a section to gain a bonus of sorts. Then again, I dumped the C3 stuff like a bad habit (what was its purpose again?) and the Targeting Comp was always 1 ton+crit to "improve your aim" by giving a special reticule to aim @ specific sections of the mech (including head) and MASC being... a fixed piece of equipment of sorts.

No MW game will get this perfectly right honestly, due to rules complications.

Edited by Deathlike, 11 August 2015 - 10:39 AM.

[Matthew Ace]

Deathlike, on 11 August 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

Well, every MW game had broken the TT rules in some form.

The earlier MW2 games (for DOS/Win95) didn't have HS in the engine until a later revision (Titanium and/or Mercs). However, the tonnage was accounted for.

No MW game will get this perfectly right honestly, due to rules complications.

Wait, I'm pretty sure DOS/Win95 of the Refusal War accounted for engine heat sinks proper; less external (if any) heat sinks critical slot allocation.

(The deviation is in the 10 weapon limit, dedicated ammo per weapon, lack of certain equipments/weapons and limit of 10 ton ammo per weapon.)

Edited by Matthew Ace, 11 August 2015 - 10:48 AM.

[Deathlike]

Matthew Ace, on 11 August 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

Wait, I'm pretty sure DOS/Win95 of the Refusal War accounted for engine heat sinks proper; less external (if any) heat sinks critical slot allocation.

(The deviation is in the 10 weapon limit, dedicated ammo per weapon, lack of certain equipments/weapons and limit of 10 ton ammo per weapon.)

They did not.



It's not perfect, but it covers what I'm talking about.