259 replies to this topic

[Marauder3D]

SO just an anecdote, but here goes.

I started leveling Jenners this last week during the double XP weekend. I have a founders Jenner, but was never any good. Couple weeks ago I leveled all 4 of my Cheetahs because they were so cake to pilot.

Piloting a Jenner, which used to be the best light in the game, is honestly about 4x harder than piloting a Cheetah. I'm starting to get some good 3-4 kill games now, but WOW, so much harder than ECM/great hit boxes on the Cheetah. HUGE difference.

[Roadkill]

GrimRiver, on 12 August 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

The ACH is the only mech I have trouble with, all other mechs go down like normal.

I respectfully submit that this is not true.

The ACH is the only mech that you notice that you have trouble with, and that's at least party due to all the whining about it.

Hit reg is buggy in MWO. I see it happen all the time to all Mechs. But people only really notice it when they expect the target to die, and that's most often the case with Lights.

Several people have posted videos allegedly "proving" that the ACH is bugged, but when the videos have been examined frame-by-frame it becomes obvious that the shot missed, or that it spread between several panels, or a combination of both. ACH hitboxes are small like the Firestarter's or Spider's, but in the case of those two Mechs you're used to it.

People are already getting used to the ACH. I played mine for a few games last night and died much quicker than I did over the weekend. Was there a patch? No - people simply got used to shooting at the ACH and are figuring out that it isn't unkillable.

[Ascaloth]

Mystere, on 12 August 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

The Stalker is the only Mech I have trouble killing easily. All other Mechs go down like normal.

That's because its CT is tiny. If you suspect it's using STD Engine, go for legs...or take both STs and leave it unarmed (happens a lot with my Stalkers)...

[FupDup]

Marauder3D, on 12 August 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

SO just an anecdote, but here goes.

I started leveling Jenners this last week during the double XP weekend. I have a founders Jenner, but was never any good. Couple weeks ago I leveled all 4 of my Cheetahs because they were so cake to pilot.

Piloting a Jenner, which used to be the best light in the game, is honestly about 4x harder than piloting a Cheetah. I'm starting to get some good 3-4 kill games now, but WOW, so much harder than ECM/great hit boxes on the Cheetah. HUGE difference.

That's mostly because the Jenner is a walking Center Torso.



If the Jenny's arms and side torsos actually, like, intercepted damage once in a while, I suspect that the comparison would be a lot closer...

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 12 August 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

That's mostly because the Jenner is a walking Center Torso.



If the Jenny's arms and side torsos actually, like, intercepted damage once in a while, I suspect that the comparison would be a lot closer...

Well, I'm kinda practicing with it for a bit in preparation for the Jenner IIC (though, this is months away), but it does take quite a bit more effort than the alternatives... unfortunately.

[GrimRiver]

Mystere, on 12 August 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

The Stalker is the only Mech I have trouble killing easily. All other Mechs go down like normal.

Never seen a overheated mech at 30% take 2x 53.8 alphas to a bloodred CT and have 2 lights dog him the rest of the match and not die.

[1453 R]

What do you want, Grim?

Do you want the leg hitboxes to be, individually, the size of entire UrbanMechs, a'la the RVN 'fix'?

Because let me tell you, I really don't want them to do that to anything else, ever again. I've run Cheetahs plenty, and I can tell you the invincible super-shield you're talking about doesn't happen nearly as often as the forum whinetrollery says it does.

You only need to get instagibbed by a Whale once - literally 100% to dead with a single* hit - to know that yes, the Cheetah is still a light 'Mech, and yes, it can in fact be hit by the enemy.

[TercieI]

GrimRiver, on 12 August 2015 - 09:34 AM, said:

He at 30% so everything on him was pretty much bloodred, even watched 2 of my lights in deathcam dog him only to fail.

Then a lot of shots went into his torso (i.e. were largely wasted). I run the ACH a lot. It's a great mech, but it's only as survivable as it is because many people still aren't focusing legs. Against top teams, only my legs get shot; I shoot ACH legs and they come off (easier target than a FS9's legs actually). Against the general queue, lots of fire goes into my torsos and I end a lot of matches in the 30% range missing one ST (i.e. I'd be dead in a FS9). As much as I hate to say it, this really is a "gitgud" issue. As a light pilot, I'm actually a little worried this will finally be the thing that teaches most people how to properly kill lights... :/

[Marauder3D]

FupDup, on 12 August 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

That's mostly because the Jenner is a walking Center Torso.



If the Jenny's arms and side torsos actually, like, intercepted damage once in a while, I suspect that the comparison would be a lot closer...

Well, I love me some Enterprise, so at least we got that included in the thread. Now make my Jenner get dual gaussed less and today will be a good day.

[FupDup]

1453 R, on 12 August 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

What do you want, Grim?

Do you want the leg hitboxes to be, individually, the size of entire UrbanMechs, a'la the RVN 'fix'?

Because let me tell you, I really don't want them to do that to anything else, ever again. I've run Cheetahs plenty, and I can tell you the invincible super-shield you're talking about doesn't happen nearly as often as the forum whinetrollery says it does.

You only need to get instagibbed by a Whale once - literally 100% to dead with a single* hit - to know that yes, the Cheetah is still a light 'Mech, and yes, it can in fact be hit by the enemy.

Perspective is a funny thing.

The phenomenon that I experience for most of the mechs in the game is that whenever my enemy uses them, they seem like they facetank extreme damage and can ripe out my CT in just 2 salvos. But when I saddle up in that exact same mech, suddenly I'm not nearly as durable or powerful...

Putting the shoe on the other foot is OP.

[1453 R]

FupDup, on 12 August 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

Perspective is a funny thing.

The phenomenon that I experience for most of the mechs in the game is that whenever my enemy uses them, they seem like they facetank extreme damage and can ripe out my CT in just 2 salvos. But when I saddle up in that exact same mech, suddenly I'm not nearly as durable or powerful...

Putting the shoe on the other foot is OP.

Or putting the shot on the other foot, in this case.

As in shoot the legs. And not the leg you've already busted - gotta put the shot on the other foot.

Get it? Get it?

[Mystere]

GrimRiver, on 12 August 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

Never seen a overheated mech at 30% take 2x 53.8 alphas to a bloodred CT and have 2 lights dog him the rest of the match and not die.

I offer two alternative possibilities:

• You actually missed.
  
• HSR is still wonky.

As for those two lights, they're probably not good at all.

I recently saw a Jenner entangle 5 Mechs. I typed "What's taking so long to kill that thing?" When I saw no progress for 10 seconds more, I decided to go to them, kill the Jenner, return to my original position, and type "That is how you kill a Jenner!".

Note that I was 3-4 grid squares away.

Edited by Mystere, 12 August 2015 - 10:10 AM.

[GrimRiver]

1453 R, on 12 August 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

What do you want, Grim?

Do you want the leg hitboxes to be, individually, the size of entire UrbanMechs, a'la the RVN 'fix'?

Because let me tell you, I really don't want them to do that to anything else, ever again. I've run Cheetahs plenty, and I can tell you the invincible super-shield you're talking about doesn't happen nearly as often as the forum whinetrollery says it does.

You only need to get instagibbed by a Whale once - literally 100% to dead with a single* hit - to know that yes, the Cheetah is still a light 'Mech, and yes, it can in fact be hit by the enemy.

I just want them to look at hit reg and the lagshield issues on it, not change anything about the mech.

[Lily from animove]

Mister Blastman, on 12 August 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

A real cheetah has four legs and can do just fine with only three. The curious mechanized variant classified under the Darwinian Metallurgial Being phylum, subspecies Arctic Cheetah has two. And when one of them is missing, it has a hard time moving. Studies have shown they did develop a peculiar defense mechanism known as pogo-sticking. Apparently if you carve off one leg they hop about like a smitten child atop a springed stick. They make for fantastic sport if placed at one hundred yards in a confined range.

If you manage to kill one I hear the galactic authority has authorized these selected prizes as a reward. You simply need to bring your paper tickets with you and if you have enough, you may take your pick.

bring more dakka

[GrimRiver]

Mystere, on 12 August 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

I offer two alternative possibilities:

• You actually missed.
  
• HSR is still wonky.

As for those two lights, they're probably not good at all.

Can't miss at 52m with 2x SRM6's 2x ERLL 1x AC10 on a enemy mech is sitting still from overheating. As I said it's a hit reg issues on that one mech and with all the people complaining about the ACH then there must be something wrong with it.

[1453 R]

GrimRiver, on 12 August 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

Can't miss at 52m with 2x SRM6's 2x ERLL 1x AC10 on a enemy mech is sitting still from overheating. As I said it's a hit reg issues on that one mech and with all the people complaining about the ACH then there must be something wrong with it.

They all complained about the Raven. And the Spider. And the Firestarter. And the Timber Wolf. And the Stormcrow. And the...

Something that's new, and is remotely able to survive taking a small laser shot or two, gets complaints about hitbox issues. The Timber Wolf was, at one point, the recipient of far more hitbox-issue fervor than this, and yet without significant fixes (outside the jet glitch corrections, which nobody is talking about for Cheetahs), nobody has an issue with Timber Wolves anymore. Matter of fact, I've seen indications that folks are considering the TBR to be old news, effectively phased out of the game by a combination of the Lolbringer and the Cauldron-Born.

The Arctic Cheetah is a Clan light that doesn't suck all the face in Creation. People are going to take some time to adjust to that.

[MischiefSC]

The problem is that each of its legs can take more damage than most heavies ST.

It takes less firepower to blow both STs off Stormcrow than both legs off the ach.

Sop for PGI though. Expect it to stay op until it's out for cbills.

[Mystere]

GrimRiver, on 12 August 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

Can't miss at 52m with 2x SRM6's 2x ERLL 1x AC10 on a enemy mech is sitting still from overheating. As I said it's a hit reg issues on that one mech and with all the people complaining about the ACH then there must be something wrong with it.

Of course you can. Discounting HSR-related issues, the following are not impossible:

• not many SRMs hit target ... if any hit at all
  
• ERLLs swiped across more than one panel ... or missed entirely.
  
• AC10 hit a different panel ... or none at all

This is why video proof is important. The "heat of the moment" can make people think they saw something that actually did not occur.

[1453 R]

MischiefSC, on 12 August 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

The problem is that each of its legs can take more damage than most heavies ST.

It takes less firepower to blow both STs off Stormcrow than both legs off the ach.

Sop for PGI though. Expect it to stay op until it's out for cbills.

The same could be said for most 35t lights, though. Legs are always more heavily armored than shoulders. They have been since TT. This isn't an issue exclusive to the Cheetah.

[GrimRiver]

1453 R, on 12 August 2015 - 10:17 AM, said:

They all complained about the Raven. And the Spider. And the Firestarter. And the Timber Wolf. And the Stormcrow. And the...

Something that's new, and is remotely able to survive taking a small laser shot or two, gets complaints about hitbox issues. The Timber Wolf was, at one point, the recipient of far more hitbox-issue fervor than this, and yet without significant fixes (outside the jet glitch corrections, which nobody is talking about for Cheetahs), nobody has an issue with Timber Wolves anymore. Matter of fact, I've seen indications that folks are considering the TBR to be old news, effectively phased out of the game by a combination of the Lolbringer and the Cauldron-Born.

The Arctic Cheetah is a Clan light that doesn't suck all the face in Creation. People are going to take some time to adjust to that.

Even with the issues those mechs had/has I still can take them down, but the ACH is something else entirely with it's ability take unreal amounts of damage that will make even a direwolf blush.