41 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

M.A.S.C. isn't pointless on the Shadow Cat, the way many folks say it is. I use the M.A.S.C. quite a bit on the machine.

There is, however, little argument that the system which is a total game-changer on something as nominally fat and slow as a Sexecutioner is mostly a nice bonus on the Shadow Cat. I rely far more on the Cat's incredibly awesome jump jets and native agility than I do on its M.A.S.C. While I disagree that M.A.S.C. should be a straight speed boost with no agility benefits - you can have my Sexecutioner's nigh-instantaneous accel/decel and sharper turns over my cold, bloodstained body - I don't think the same 18.5% speed boost the Executioner got is too much to ask for on the Cat.

People just have to be realistic and also remember that the Fire Moth exists and is a thing. There have to be some limiters on M.A.S.C.. And frankly I really like this execution of the device, as opposed to an RNG-based raw speed boost with no agility perks and potential total paralysis.

[Deathlike]

I suggest people try to walk with a Shadowcat with MASC.

You'll find that when running MASC (even for an extended period of time) that you'll gain minimal extra distance had MASC been used.

I'd expect a Stormcrow to survive a brawl better than a Scat, despite the obvious fact that the Stormcrow naturally has more armor and internals. Remember, they run at the same speed... and the Scat has MASC.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

1453 R, on 13 August 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:

People just have to be realistic and also remember that the Fire Moth exists and is a thing.

Pretty sure we don't have to worry about that (because it would still be too fast), after all, we are still waiting on the Flea which is far slower and has MASC potential. Granted it is shadowed by the Locust either way.



While the extra agility is nice, there are diminishing returns imo with agility boosts on a mech that is decently agile. Whereas the boosted speed allows you to quickly reposition which is what makes speed in general so important for lighter mechs.

So PGI, fix your MASC speed modifiers for lighter chassis plox.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 13 August 2015 - 09:54 AM.

[Xetelian]

Rushin Roulette, on 13 August 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

MASC does EXACTLY what it is supposed to do and 130 KPH is the correct speed for it while activated




Walking speed is 64,8KPH times 2 = 129,6 KPH

Again....




Not double the Running speed

EDIT: Even Sarna has the MASC speed listed
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Shadow_Cat Speed 97 km/h (130 km/h with MASC)

I quoted Sarna to give people an idea of what it does. I emphasized 'walking speed' because it isn't running speed.

That is why I asked if there was any other way to incorporate it.

Paigan, on 13 August 2015 - 02:06 AM, said:

The main (and far more important) advantage of MASC in MWO is its agility boost and some "special" advantages.
Agility does not exist in TT in that form.

I'd rather have the agility boost and mediocre speed boost than the full speed boost and no agility boost at all.

I really have to call "L2P" regarding this issue and that is not meant with cynicism or arrogance.
Just don't disregard the agility side. And yes, it takes some training to exploit its full potential. So please don't play one game and whine that the agility boost is hardly relevant. Again: L2P (MASC).

That being said, they could give medium Mechs 15% speed boost instead of 10%.
Maybe capped at 150kph to avoid those funny technical limitations.
Apart from that, I think it's fine.

I still take offense to the L2P remark no matter your intention.

When I use it on a SHC I find that it doesn't last long enough to catch up to a SCR that spawned ahead of me and started moving slightly before I did. The 2 tons of MASC could go to changing my cERMLs to cMPLs.

[FupDup]

WM Quicksilver, on 13 August 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

Pretty sure we don't have to worry about that (because it would still be too fast), after all, we are still waiting on the Flea which is far slower and has MASC potential. Granted it is shadowed by the Locust either way.

The Moth actually breaks the speed limit just with speed tweak, it doesn't even need MASC for that. 178.2 kph with tweak.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 13 August 2015 - 09:29 PM, said:

The Moth actually breaks the speed limit just with speed tweak, it doesn't even need MASC for that. 178.2 kph with tweak.

I actually forgot about speed tweak on that one. Most of the skills really just need to be done away with, they cause more problems than they fix (which is nothing).

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 13 August 2015 - 11:27 PM.

[FupDup]

WM Quicksilver, on 13 August 2015 - 11:26 PM, said:

I actually forgot about speed tweak on that one. Most of the skills really just need to be done away with, they cause more problems than they fix (which is nothing).

There's always going to be some sort of XP system, it's basically "mandatory" for F2P games these days. "Progression™" brah.


I'd rather just reform the system so that each mech can further refine its own role instead of sharing the same tree across every single mech...

Maybe have it so you can select the path you want to take (i.e. you could fill up your Atlas with sensor quirks if you really wanted to be stupid, or a Commando with durability, etc.), or maybe lock each mech into a specific path. Maybe quirks could be handled that way, you get to unlock them with XP and pick from a pool of which ones you want. Maybe take notes from the Deus Ex: Human Revolution level up system, I dunno.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 14 August 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

There's always going to be some sort of XP system, it's basically "mandatory" for F2P games these days. "Progression™" brah.


I'd rather just reform the system so that each mech can further refine its own role instead of sharing the same tree across every single mech...

Maybe have it so you can select the path you want to take (i.e. you could fill up your Atlas with sensor quirks if you really wanted to be stupid, or a Commando with durability, etc.), or maybe lock each mech into a specific path. Maybe quirks could be handled that way, you get to unlock them with XP and pick from a pool of which ones you want. Maybe take notes from the Deus Ex: Human Revolution level up system, I dunno.

Or they could banish it entirely because progression in an arena shooter type game is just bad design. If they wanted to make us feel special about playing a variant for long enough, that's what achievements are for. Though a "quirk" tree would be interesting, it would probably take too much time for their balance team to actually deal with considering just how many variant we have in game. If only 3 variants wasn't mandatory, they may not have had so many redundant variants.

[FupDup]

WM Quicksilver, on 14 August 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

Or they could banish it entirely because progression in an arena shooter type game is just bad design. If they wanted to make us feel special about playing a variant for long enough, that's what achievements are for. Though a "quirk" tree would be interesting, it would probably take too much time for their balance team to actually deal with considering just how many variant we have in game. If only 3 variants wasn't mandatory, they may not have had so many redundant variants.

Tell that to the Man Who Shall Not Be Named. :\

I do kinda miss the days when games didn't have "achievements" and when you didn't have to grind to use something (i.e. buy a previous MW game, everything is unlocked instantly in multiplayer) but the gaming world seems to be going away from that design...It is what it is.



Maybe some kind of compromise might be to have each mech start out with a full tree already spec'd out, and then you gain XP in order to swap those default thingies for different thingies if you don't like the default ones (i.e. if you don't like the default reduced PPC heat on the AWS, maybe you might replace it with PPC velocity instead, IDK). That way, at least a newly bought mech wouldn't necessarily be inferior to an already grinded one.

-----

PS: I also agree about seriously hating the 3 variant system. If I had magical game-making powers, I would have every mech get only a single variant, a variant that would try to encompass most of the other variants' abilities. Exceptions would need to be had, of course, because some mechs just have way too many different variants (i.e. Hunchback would basically become an Omnimech, so I would focus Hunchies on big dakka with energy and missile backups).

A good example of this making mechs less sucky could be rolling the Spider 5D and 5K into one package...you get the idea.

Edited by FupDup, 14 August 2015 - 11:34 AM.

[Xetelian]

Masc is still very underwhelming.

[Satan n stuff]

Xetelian, on 24 September 2015 - 12:47 PM, said:

Masc is still very underwhelming.

It should be more powerful, a 33% speed increase instead of the 10-20% we have now would be much appreciated. I'd also like it to last a bit longer, I was thinking 20 seconds to hit 100% and up to 40 seconds to fully cool down.

[Lorian Sunrider]

Eh. I don't have any wave 3 so I can't comment on its current effectiveness, only second hand from my squad mates. They seem to echo the consensus on here, where its great with Executioner, and meh with the Shadow Cat. The biggest thing is to help you get to top speed faster from a stop.

I'm very interested to see how it works with the reward Wolverine in regards to top speed versus bigger engine with slower acceleration

Edited by Lorian Sunrider, 24 September 2015 - 01:02 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

If I knew it was only going to be 10% I would have never bought it. I got preordered trolled. Haha

[Mcgral18]

Monkey Lover, on 24 September 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

If I knew it was only going to be 10% I would have never bought it. I got preordered trolled. Haha

But wait! The Wolverine (or whichever 55 tonner we're getting) will get a whole 12% speed boost for 3 tons!


Amazing!

[Lorian Sunrider]

Mcgral18, on 24 September 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

But wait! The Wolverine (or whichever 55 tonner we're getting) will get a whole 12% speed boost for 3 tons!


Amazing!

But what is the acceleration bonus?

Edited by Lorian Sunrider, 24 September 2015 - 01:36 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Lorian Sunrider, on 24 September 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

But what is the acceleration bonus?

On the first page.

-<Module faction="InnerSphere" CType="CMASCStats" name="MASCMkIII" id="1602">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\MASC.png" descTag="@MASCMkIII_desc" shortNameTag="@ui_MASCMkIII" nameTag="@MASCMkIII"/>
<ModuleStats TonsMax="60" TonsMin="45" amountAllowed="1" health="10" tons="3.0" slots="3"/>
<MASCStats WeaponSpread="2.5" WeaponShake="0.25" DamageMax="2.42" DamageMin="1.98" DamageRate="0.5" GaugeDamagePoint="0.75" GaugeDrain="0.02" GaugeFill="0.1" BoostTurn="0.25" BoostDecel="1.5" BoostAccel="1.75" BoostSpeed="0.12"/>
</Module>

[Lorian Sunrider]

Mcgral18, on 24 September 2015 - 01:34 PM, said:

On the first page.

-<Module faction="InnerSphere" CType="CMASCStats" name="MASCMkIII" id="1602">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\MASC.png" descTag="@MASCMkIII_desc" shortNameTag="@ui_MASCMkIII" nameTag="@MASCMkIII"/>
<ModuleStats TonsMax="60" TonsMin="45" amountAllowed="1" health="10" tons="3.0" slots="3"/>
<MASCStats WeaponSpread="2.5" WeaponShake="0.25" DamageMax="2.42" DamageMin="1.98" DamageRate="0.5" GaugeDamagePoint="0.75" GaugeDrain="0.02" GaugeFill="0.1" BoostTurn="0.25" BoostDecel="1.5" BoostAccel="1.75" BoostSpeed="0.12"/>
</Module>

My apologies, I'm bloody terrible at reading XML so I skipped straight past it.

A future as a coder is not in my cards. Proof reading articles, papers or books? Hell yeah, excellent. Finding an error in code? I'd rather start over from scratch lol.

So assuming the .12 listed for boost speed is the 12% stat that is being thrown around in this thread, does that mean that there is an acceleration boost of 175%?

If that is right thats a pretty big advantage.

Hell, MASC on Innersphere Mechs with the biggest engine you can stuff in them is an even bigger advantage than it is for Clans.

Edited by Lorian Sunrider, 24 September 2015 - 02:06 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Lorian Sunrider, on 24 September 2015 - 02:05 PM, said:

My apologies, I'm bloody terrible at reading XML so I skipped straight past it.

A future as a coder is not in my cards. Proof reading articles, papers or books? Hell yeah, excellent. Finding an error in code? I'd rather start over from scratch lol.

So assuming the .12 listed for boost speed is the 12% stat that is being thrown around in this thread, does that mean that there is an acceleration boost of 175%?

If that is right thats a pretty big advantage.

Hell, MASC on Innersphere Mechs with the biggest engine you can stuff in them is an even bigger advantage than it is for Clans.

All MASC systems get the 75% boost, which seems additive as opposed to Weapon Module multiplicative (where +75% would mean 4x RoF). Just under double, in this case.


Not worth 3 tons, just as the SadCat isn't worth 2, in my opinion.

Edited by Mcgral18, 24 September 2015 - 02:17 PM.

[Vellron2005]

Personally, on my Executioners, MASC works so well to catch up with the faster mechs, its not even funny.

But, the best use I get from it is to quickly stop and reverse direction, which enables my EXE to not just turn on a dime, but poke, shoot, and be back in cover before the target can retaliate.

Also, its glorious when a medium or a fast heavy rounds a corner on a building, thinking it will go around and attack me from the other side, and I just hit my MASC and chase it, and then shoot it in the back, with him beeing all "wait, you'r not supposed to be there"..

Its also great for playing a sport I like to call "DodgeLRM"

I LOVE Masc so much, that now, when I play my Timberwolf, I hit that MASC button and then get an "oh, damn, I dont have one" feeling of sadness.

I wish I could equip MASC on more mechs than just EXE and Shadowcat..

[AlexEss]

So my question is....

Would you trade a bettre masc for a system that forced/encouraged the actual use of walking speed.. because the only time i see poeple use walking speed is when they guard slow assault mechs.

Or what if we brought the leg damage from masc up to lore levels where it pretty much shredded the mech using it....

In the long run i think having some balance in peak vs punishment is a good thing.