33 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Its being used on 8 out of 12 mechs in a game as it is, so why isnt it an equipment that anyone can equip at this point?

All the whinging about the ACH is nothing. Its hard to kill so what? So was the spider before it, and the Firestarter. At least they dont shut down the weapons in your mech lol

/rantoff

[Alan Davion]

If ECM was something that every mech could use, it would mean that the game is well and truly broken and has no hope of recovery.

That would be using construction rules like we had way, way back in MW2/Mercs, where you could equip anything so long as you had the tonnage available.

I agree that ECM is way to prevalent in the game right now, and that's a side affect of it being a completely overpowered piece of equipment. Right now it's "Okay" due to the 180m range, but once that's chopped down to 90m, we're going to see probably nothing BUT the ECM mechs because people will need to bring even more ECM mechs in order to compensate.

It's really going to be ECMWarrior Online at that point, with companies built like 3 Commando/Spider, 3 Cicada/Griffin. 3 Cataphract and 3 Atlas on the IS side, then 3 Kit Fox/Myst Lynx/Arctic Cheetah, 3 Shadow Cat and 3 Hellbringer on the Clan side. All we need is something like the Kingfisher, Turkina or Dire Wolf C to round out the square of OP ECM Clan mechs.

Of course, at this point I think that's exactly what it would take to get PGI to wake up and say, "Oh... Crap... ECM is way too powerful." and finally get around to fixing the bleeding thing.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Alan Davion, on 15 August 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

It's really going to be ECMWarrior Online at that point, with companies built like 3 Commando/Spider, 3 Cicada/Griffin. 3 Cataphract and 3 Atlas on the IS side, then 3 Kit Fox/Myst Lynx/Arctic Cheetah, 3 Shadow Cat and 3 Hellbringer on the Clan side. All we need is something like the Kingfisher, Turkina or Dire Wolf C to round out the square of OP ECM Clan mechs.

Thats what Im saying. At that point theres no reason for anyone to be able to equip it because it will be all ecm all the time and if I remember correctly, that was how Russ figured it was a good thing not an OP thing lol

[Alan Davion]

FupDup, on 15 August 2015 - 06:37 PM, said:

No red doritos would be had on that day.

Pretty sure that's the point we're trying to make. As much as I see people trying to play up this range reduction as a nerf, I really end up scratching my head wondering how they could think that way.

It's not a nerf unless there is some sort of penalty added to a system. ECM will still be just as all-powerful after the range reduction as it has been since its inception. A range reduction is not a nerf by any stretch of the imagination.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Alan Davion, on 15 August 2015 - 06:41 PM, said:

Pretty sure that's the point we're trying to make. As much as I see people trying to play up this range reduction as a nerf, I really end up scratching my head wondering how they could think that way.

It's not a nerf unless there is some sort of penalty added to a system. ECM will still be just as all-powerful after the range reduction as it has been since its inception. A range reduction is not a nerf by any stretch of the imagination.

Yeah, itll just be even more plentiful lol

Unless they add something to limit the number of ecm per side lol

[Deathlike]

Just let ECM be available to all mechs for day.

You'll find the following to happen:

1) QQ

2) People complaining about LRMs (that's already a thing - a somewhat legit reason, but it also gets more complicated)

3) "Everyone with a brain" equipping it

4) Threads discussing "more ECM > less ECM" (already a semi-common occurence)

5) Some Paulconomist salting the fields


If only some people played the game they develop in a more thorough manner...

[Alan Davion]

Deathlike, on 15 August 2015 - 07:14 PM, said:

Just let ECM be available to all mechs for day.

Here's a thought then.

Let's just limit the game to a single mech of each weight class capable of mounting ECM.

People can now only run Ravens, Griffins, Cataphracts, Altas', Arctic Cheetahs, Shadow Cats, Hellbringers and Turkinas.

How long do you think people would play that before going, "Yeah, this is the most boring game I've ever played" and finally boycott PGI?

My guess is, 1, maybe 2 days before the game and the forums become a ghost town in that particular timeline.

Just fix the frakking ECM system and be effing done with it.

Edit: The above is a hypothetical, extreme worst case scenario. Letting all mechs equip ECM would essentially be the same thing as above. It would be freaking boring beyond belief. A freaking root canal would be more fun than MWO at that point.

Edited by Alan Davion, 15 August 2015 - 07:21 PM.

[AlphaToaster]

If all mechs could turn off active sensors/radar to gain the benefit we get from radar dep without taking a module slot would be a fair trade off.

This way ecm is still serving a purpose to actively counter/scramble and everyone else gets some of that added functionality added to their mechs.

Edited by AlphaToaster, 15 August 2015 - 07:23 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Deathlike, on 15 August 2015 - 07:14 PM, said:

Just let ECM be available to all mechs for day.

You'll find the following to happen:

1) QQ

2) People complaining about LRMs (that's already a thing - a somewhat legit reason, but it also gets more complicated)

both will happen no matter what

[Deathlike]

Alan Davion, on 15 August 2015 - 07:20 PM, said:

Here's a thought then.

Let's just limit the game to a single mech of each weight class capable of mounting ECM.

People can now only run Ravens, Griffins, Cataphracts, Altas', Arctic Cheetahs, Shadow Cats, Hellbringers and Turkinas.

How long do you think people would play that before going, "Yeah, this is the most boring game I've ever played" and finally boycott PGI?

My guess is, 1, maybe 2 days before the game and the forums become a ghost town in that particular timeline.

Just fix the frakking ECM system and be effing done with it.

Edit: The above is a hypothetical, extreme worst case scenario. Letting all mechs equip ECM would essentially be the same thing as above. It would be freaking boring beyond belief. A freaking root canal would be more fun than MWO at that point.

Personally, I want ECM reworked from the ground up.

I'd rather have people actually acknowledge that ECM has an actual impact... to what degree depends on your actual skill level.

That's part of the problem in its design... it's really anti-newbie, but also used at the higher levels in different ways (not that it's required, but it's certainly extraordinarily helpful).

[Cizjut]

ECM is a support bubble that lights and some mediums should only carry. That's a role equipment and it prevents with all justification using LRM boats only, which, would be extremely annoying since it's the easiest way to play. ECM is a stealth option and forces the team to stick together.

The range nerf is actually fine. It IS a standard equipment on teams because a team without good ECM cover is a sitting duck everytime. LRM users need to use the groundbreaking concept of light spotters and teamwork. Yes, sounds crazy i know, but it works.

[LordNothing]

problem is everyone is running angel. it should be a couple mechs running angel and a few more running true guardian. this is what happens when pgi tries to over simplify things to the point where its borked.

[Alan Davion]

Cizjut, on 15 August 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

ECM is a support bubble that lights and some mediums should only carry. That's a role equipment and it prevents with all justification using LRM boats only, which, would be extremely annoying since it's the easiest way to play. ECM is a stealth option and forces the team to stick together.

The range nerf is actually fine. It IS a standard equipment on teams because a team without good ECM cover is a sitting duck everytime. LRM users need to use the groundbreaking concept of light spotters and teamwork. Yes, sounds crazy i know, but it works.

I absolutely agree with you. It's the entire role/information warfare system that is at the very core of all the problems the game suffers from.

Spotters and LRMS go hand in hand in the TT, because the TT game is usually only played by 2-4 people, running anything from a Lance/Star to a Company/Trinary depending on the house/personal rules.

Trying to make a true team game as PGI has done in this day and age of over-saturated CoD-Kiddie-Lone-Wolves is a monumental, possibly even impossible task.

They have the /means/ for Spotter/LRM tag-teams in the Tag Laser and such, but the /ends/ in this case are lacking. No one wants to sacrifice an energy slot for a tag because that means less damage they can put out and pad their C-Bill count with.

I've said this before in quite a few threads now. PGI needs to make spotting for LRMs a much more attractive choice when building out a mech. Some of the Commandos would be great for putting a Tag laser on, while still being able to put out respectable damage.

The chances of PGI actually doing that though? Can we actually express negative values? Because I think at this point it's a -100% chance.

[Otto Cannon]

Alan Davion, on 15 August 2015 - 07:36 PM, said:

I absolutely agree with you. It's the entire role/information warfare system that is at the very core of all the problems the game suffers from.

Spotters and LRMS go hand in hand in the TT, because the TT game is usually only played by 2-4 people, running anything from a Lance/Star to a Company/Trinary depending on the house/personal rules.

Trying to make a true team game as PGI has done in this day and age of over-saturated CoD-Kiddie-Lone-Wolves is a monumental, possibly even impossible task.

They have the /means/ for Spotter/LRM tag-teams in the Tag Laser and such, but the /ends/ in this case are lacking. No one wants to sacrifice an energy slot for a tag because that means less damage they can put out and pad their C-Bill count with.

I've said this before in quite a few threads now. PGI needs to make spotting for LRMs a much more attractive choice when building out a mech. Some of the Commandos would be great for putting a Tag laser on, while still being able to put out respectable damage.

The chances of PGI actually doing that though? Can we actually express negative values? Because I think at this point it's a -100% chance.

I think they should go more toward making NARC better. If it had lots of ammo and was quick and easy to hit with it could be ideal for giving lights a spotting role. With TAG the problem is that hanging around shining a highly visible red beam at an angry assault mech tends to get you killed before the first flight of friendly missiles has slooooooowly flown over and hit your target.

[Mystere]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 15 August 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

Its being used on 8 out of 12 mechs in a game as it is, so why isnt it an equipment that anyone can equip at this point?

Meh! I have yet to see this.

FupDup, on 15 August 2015 - 06:37 PM, said:

No red doritos would be had on that day.

And I would welcome that day. Maybe then people will use their eyes instead of relying on that red dorito.

[The Mech behind you]

If ECM would be an option for every mech then every mech would bring ECM. ECM has way to many advantages for a 1.5t (1t for clans) module to not put it on your mech. It is a must have thing like the double heatsink upgrade. That actually shows how OP it is.

Edited by Norman Kosh, 15 August 2015 - 11:34 PM.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Cizjut, on 15 August 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

ECM is a support bubble that lights and some mediums should only carry. That's a role equipment and it prevents with all justification using LRM boats only, which, would be extremely annoying since it's the easiest way to play. ECM is a stealth option and forces the team to stick together.

The range nerf is actually fine. It IS a standard equipment on teams because a team without good ECM cover is a sitting duck everytime. LRM users need to use the groundbreaking concept of light spotters and teamwork. Yes, sounds crazy i know, but it works.

So LRM users.and spotters need to use tactics agains ppl with jesus box who do not have to do anything at all(skill based) to have that protection against LRM...
It does not make sense bro

[Mystere]

Norman Kosh, on 15 August 2015 - 11:32 PM, said:

If ECM would be an option for every mech then every mech would bring ECM. ECM has way to many advantages for a 1.5t (1t for clans) module to not put it on your mech. It is a must have thing like the double heatsink upgrade. That actually shows how OP it is.

I won't. Why? Because I know everyone else will have one and I can just leech off them.

[Yellonet]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 15 August 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

Thats what Im saying. At that point theres no reason for anyone to be able to equip it because it will be all ecm all the time and if I remember correctly, that was how Russ figured it was a good thing not an OP thing lol

If everyone have ECM it would be fair. It would change the information war so that it takes more effort to target mechs with tag, narc and so on being more important.

[BigJim]

FupDup, on 15 August 2015 - 06:37 PM, said:

No red doritos would be had on that day.

Idd.
I think the game would be orders of magnitude better if there were no red doritos at all, and you had to actually see an enemy with your eyes in order to know he's there.

If everyone having ECM is the only way to achieve that under the current circumstances, then I would consider it a price worth paying.