55 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

Seriously. Any chassis without DHS at this point in serious play is 99.99% likely to be crippled (Gauss rigs being the rare exception).

Remove the tax. Make 'Mechs able to be SHS or DHS as the person likes- but make switching between them cost 0 C-bills, with the only cost being the price of the actual heat sinks you're installing. Other than making people spend more money, making them pay to swap to an essential feature of 'Mech play is meaningless.

Leave the option to have SHS in, but remove the cost of swapping to the sanity of DHS.

[El Bandito]

I am sure that is on most people's minds but there are those who will just shrug and say "F2P mechanic".
Must be crushing for the newbies to buy a mech but cannot show even half its power due to DHS tax.

However, removing DHS tax will make most IS mechs 1.5 million cheaper than the Clan mechs. Which is fien by me, but it might not sit well with others.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 August 2015 - 12:12 AM.

[One Medic Army]

Have first 10 sinks give 20 dissipation regardless of SHS or DHS.

Problem solved, now it's a legitimate choice between smaller SHS and larger higher dissipation DHS.

[R0B0TULISM]

But without the DHS tax, how could we pay for all this big, stompy robot infrastructure?

[Juodas Varnas]

Paulconomy demands the tax to increase the grind.

[KharnZor]

no

[Lily from animove]

we should question the entire shs as well. the only times they have any impact is when they are on very small engined mechs forcing them to have external heatsinks and then they do actually save some slots. But which IS mechs, except stocks do have this at all?

it would truly be interesting if we give shs any purpose. But I doubt at this point the game is ready for such changes. They were in any MW title just the "beginner trash" that went obsolete later, and so they are in MWO. They are the lores poor mans coolant.

Edited by Lily from animove, 17 August 2015 - 01:46 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Single Sinks is what 3025-3052 ran on mostly. Don't worry the mechs coming to us in the future are going to be 80% or better double sinks.

[Xetelian]

The era of SHS has completely passed and even more so by the clan release.

The DHS tax isn't helping anyone and if you cry LORE I'll just mention I think we shouldn't be spending 1,500,000 cBills for every IS mech.

[MeiSooHaityu]

wanderer, on 16 August 2015 - 10:57 PM, said:

Seriously. Any chassis without DHS at this point in serious play is 99.99% likely to be crippled (Gauss rigs being the rare exception).

Remove the tax. Make 'Mechs able to be SHS or DHS as the person likes- but make switching between them cost 0 C-bills, with the only cost being the price of the actual heat sinks you're installing. Other than making people spend more money, making them pay to swap to an essential feature of 'Mech play is meaningless.

Leave the option to have SHS in, but remove the cost of swapping to the sanity of DHS.

I don't support a free upgrade to DHS. We could see a cost reduction for the upgrade and that would be OK. Maybe half the price 750,000 C-Bills. That is still a good chunk of money, but a bit more reasonable.

As for characteristics... I don't know what there is to be done. Maybe drastically improve the cooling efficiency when standing in water *shrug*. Most maps don't have conveniently placed water to stand in, but hey, still an idea.

P.S. Not just gauss Riggs, but also light mechs with larger ballistics (like an A/C10 Panther 10P). With Endo, and a large ballistic, there often isn't enough Crit room for 3 or 4 external DHS, so you have to run SHS. Since you're only firing an A/C and maybe s backup SRM2, heat isn't an issue with SHS.

But yes, the builds are rare.

[Joseph Mallan]

MeiSooHaityu, on 17 August 2015 - 01:54 AM, said:

I don't support a free upgrade to DHS. We could see a cost reduction for the upgrade and that would be OK. Maybe half the price 750,000 C-Bills. That is still a good chunk of money, but a bit more reasonable.

As for characteristics... I don't know what there is to be done. Maybe drastically improve the cooling efficiency when standing in water *shrug*. Most maps don't have conveniently placed water to stand in, but hey, still an idea.

P.S. Not just gauss Riggs, but also light mechs with larger ballistics (like an A/C10 Panther 10P). With Endo, and a large ballistic, there often isn't enough Crit room for 3 or 4 external DHS, so you have to run SHS. Since you're only firing an A/C and maybe s backup SRM2, heat isn't an issue with SHS.

But yes, the builds are rare.

Rare yes, but on TT it was possible to have heat neutral Mechs and a Panther with doubles was. Lights with 3 Mediums were also heat neutral unless they had JJs. My Atlas-S SHOULD be heat neutral... or really close to it, but PGI went with a crappy heat system instead of something more conventional CBT.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 August 2015 - 01:59 AM, said:

Rare yes, but on TT it was possible to have heat neutral Mechs and a Panther with doubles was. Lights with 3 Mediums were also heat neutral unless they had JJs. My Atlas-S SHOULD be heat neutral... or really close to it, but PGI went with a crappy heat system instead of something more conventional CBT.

To force players to equip DHS?

[Joseph Mallan]

MeiSooHaityu, on 17 August 2015 - 02:03 AM, said:

To force players to equip DHS?

LOL once lvl 2 tech came out I don't know many players who didn't use dubs! Single sinks were for the poor man's Mech.

[Dino Might]

I'm a big fan of the idea posed previously to differentiate the two by incorporating the following;

DHS add dissipation (1.4x or whatever # you want) but do not add to overall heat capacity
SHS have lower dissipation (1x) but add to heat capacity (use some number manipulation to balance them)

That way, both are meaningful and provide more mech customization options. You want a high alpha boat? Go SHS, but you won't be firing often.

Want a DPS machine? Go DHS, but you can't boat nearly as well.

I haven't figured out Clans yet. Maybe make their DHS do a little of both, so not as effective at dissipation as IS DHS, but also add some minor amount to capacity.

Or... give Clans a SHS option to work the same way as the IS ones.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 August 2015 - 02:07 AM, said:

LOL once lvl 2 tech came out I don't know many players who didn't use dubs! Single sinks were for the poor man's Mech.

Yet I used to do quite well with SHS Stalker way back even after DHS release. I think something along the way just went wrong. Maybe mechs with increasing number of hardpoints. Or maybe Clan release and the subsequent Quirkening.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 August 2015 - 03:10 AM.

[El Bandito]

Lugh, on 17 August 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

[redacted]

It is not customization if it is mandatory. Without DHS, most mechs simply cannot compete.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 18 August 2015 - 03:58 PM.
Unconstructive in quote

[wanderer]

Honestly, SHS do have a purpose- but they're not part of the long-term for 'Mechs...they were more a first-generation design that DHS rapidly supplanted as soon as they were widely available.

In-universe,they're the cooling system for vehicles (who also ignore heat for ballistic/missile weapons) using energy weapons, and vehicles cannot use DHS, period.

Put in tanks? There's where SHS belonged from the get-go, or on old 3025-era chassis that had no access to DHS to begin with. The game, however, is set in the early 3050s. All the DHS tax is now is a punishment fee for making a 'Mech playable.

[Revis Volek]

MeiSooHaityu, on 17 August 2015 - 01:54 AM, said:

I don't support a free upgrade to DHS. We could see a cost reduction for the upgrade and that would be OK. Maybe half the price 750,000 C-Bills. That is still a good chunk of money, but a bit more reasonable.

As for characteristics... I don't know what there is to be done. Maybe drastically improve the cooling efficiency when standing in water *shrug*. Most maps don't have conveniently placed water to stand in, but hey, still an idea.

P.S. Not just gauss Riggs, but also light mechs with larger ballistics (like an A/C10 Panther 10P). With Endo, and a large ballistic, there often isn't enough Crit room for 3 or 4 external DHS, so you have to run SHS. Since you're only firing an A/C and maybe s backup SRM2, heat isn't an issue with SHS.

But yes, the builds are rare.

Along with a cost cut i would like to be able to co back and forth if i pleased without it costing anymore once i upgraded to DHS.

Its silly to charge me to go back to stock.....just dumb. On Endo and Ferro as well but this is a minor gripe...

DHS for all mechs should be the norm right now....When you buy the mech why dont they just let you choose DHS? ENDO? FERRO? and apply it to the cost.

[Pjwned]

That still leaves SHS in bad shape resulting in them still not actually being used ever, but removing the cost to upgrade would be better than nothing if SHS are going to stay worthless.

[Revis Volek]

Lugh, on 17 August 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

[redacted]

This isn't customization this is par for the course....if you DONT upgrade to DHS its not even worth taking it into PUBLIC queue.

Please give me 5 builds that are "Customized" and run SHS well in MWO....then maybe we can entertain your idea here.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 18 August 2015 - 03:59 PM.
Unconstructive in quote