39 replies to this topic

[Marak Varn]

Arctic Fox, on 06 July 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

The second picture is actually from CGL's relatively recent Technical Readout: 3050 Upgrade, which retcons the appearance of the 'Mech to match its stats. The art in both the original TRO:3050 and TRO:3050R doesn't have the LT SRM launcher; FASA never really bothered to make sure art matches game statistics.

Ah, you're quite right, it's been about 15 years since I had a paper copy of 3050. I've been running on the digital release since it came out. I'd spotted that the text changed, but forgot that the pictures were different as well.

[Schtirlitz]

I like new designes so i'd prefer some "new" version of Orion

[Fastred]

Marak Varn, on 05 July 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

The Orion ON1-K is one of the most popular 'mechs out there. It consistently scores well in the assorted "favourite mech" surveys, and many people have fond memories of it from MW3. Plus it was piloted by Kerensky himself. There's also lots of cool art of it looking slightly goofy with that massive missile launcher fist o'doom that people find endearing. There is however, one problem with the design that dates right back to its original technical readout.

Almost every official piece of art featuring the Orion is wrong.

According to the rulebook, that nifty barrel of pointy missile death stuck on the left arm doesn't exist. Both the Orion's missile launchers are officially torso mounted. The only weapon housed in that massive left arm is a single medium laser.

But, I hear you cry, the picture in TRO 3039 clearly shows the familiar arm missiles. Surely Fasa wouldn't have got that wrong? Well, it's actually pretty common for the art, especially in the early books, to be significantly different from the rules write up. Another example is the Cicada.

Artists love putting lasers in the Cicada's arms, but again, the rules say that they're torso mounted. Flying Debris's redesign of the Cicada for MW:O follows the rules and puts the lasers (and the autocannon) in the right place. The problem with the Orion is that the Mighty Missile Hand is a lot more iconic than the Cicada's little lasers.

So the question for the community is:

Would you prefer the Dev's follow the art and reconfigure the internals of the Orion to put a launcher in the arm, leading to modified hardpoints, criticals, aiming, damage effects and the rest?

Or would you prefer the Dev's to follow the rulebook and risk losing a defining part of the mech's visual appeal?

I vaguely remember FASA explaining that the ports in questions were coupling ports for coolant lines so that the mech could quickly connect to the hoses on a coolant truck and shed excess heat. This was expedited by the pilot by simply walking up and dropping the arm so that the ports we accessible to the ground crew.. Then again I am not getting any younger and my memory of such things is not what it used to be

[Major Tom]

This is what happens when you don't put hands on a mech. A hand actuator on that left arm would have removed the gun barrel and missile ports and we would have this frankenstoner mech.

[Butane9000]

Nacon, on 06 July 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

Why not both?

Do you mean Why not Zoidberg?

[Vasces Diablo]

As much as I love the Orion from a stats/load out perspective, I think it's ugly as sin. I'm all for a complete redesign.

[Vechs]

Vasces Diablo, on 06 July 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

As much as I love the Orion from a stats/load out perspective, I think it's ugly as sin. I'm all for a complete redesign.

Check out the render I posted on page 1.



I think that's a step in the right direction.

[Lightdragon]

Vechs, on 06 July 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

I'm going to join the crowd that believes the launcher in the torso is the error (typo).

The art and fluff got it right.

Someone made a typo in the stats.

Also, just because it's cool, here:

thats not an orion... thats the perseus

[Spleenslitta]

As far as i know there are very few mechs with humanoid arms that have missiles in their arms. Especially when you look at how many mechs there are on Sarna.
So far there is the Trenchbucket and the Commando that have been announced.

[Hykelion]

Lightdragon, on 06 July 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

thats not an orion... thats the perseus

Perseus is an OmniMech based on the Orion.

Honestly, I want the arm-mounted launcher. According to TRO 3025, the tubes around the left arm laser are the 4 tubes of the SRM system and a pair of tubes used in the mech's heat dissipation system. Somewhere between the artist and fluff writer coming up with the mech and the stat guy coming out with rules, things got screwed up, and I'd rather have it true to fluff in this case.

[wendlebum]

imho yes the image shows arm holes i go for the coolant couplings with the med laser being centrally mounted they would also increase air cooling of the Irian weapons works med lasers which were relatively cheap but suffered from heat issues to the power couplings if mounted internally.This is backed up by the later images with more than 6 vent holes an improvement in rapid cooling hose diameter and further increases surface area on the weapon itself.

the magna mk2 would have been a better fit proved over many years in the thunderbolt design.

[Uri Brauer]

Marak Varn, on 05 July 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

Artists love putting lasers in the Cicada's arms, but again, the rules say that they're torso mounted.

Of course they're torso mounted. The arms are for keeping chickens in...

[Hykelion]

DevlinCognito, on 06 July 2012 - 05:25 AM, said:

Either way, i just want it in the game. We have plenty of choices for dedicated long range support Mechs (Jagermech, Catapult, Trebuchet) but we could really do with some good all rounder mechs to play the trooper role. With most of the heavy choices being Unseen, the Orion would be perfect to fill this role.

Also, it would be a 75 tonner that can mount a PPC in each arm, if I understand how the mechlab is going to work correctly. I bet that'll cause a few 'Warhammer' builds.

[Sychodemus]

For canon/tournament rules, the Record Sheets takes precedence over fluff or artwork. It has been this way for over 25 years (indeed art is really, really low in the canon hierarchy.)

The Orion in MWO, however, could go either way. The best policy would be to go with the one that offers the most benefit to the Orion chassis as a whole. I would suggest the following for consideration:

Artwise, three distinct Orion silhouettes exist: one with two Laser/SRM arms (-Vs), one with two laser-only arms (-Ms) and one with one of each (-Ks). If they are going to include the three main styles, then I have no real complaint about the SRM being in the arm. A bit of reverse justification, sure, but it would be logical as it makes the -K a sort of middle ground between the -V and -M series.

One drawback is that the V-series are (canon-wise) the only ones with arm-mounted SRMs making them distinctly different from other Orions and that could be their main draw point. (2 energy HP vs 2 energy/2 missile HP in the arms)

[wanderer]

Flyingdebris not only makes a 'Mech look like it's stats SAY it should, but does so in a way that renders them beautifully in the process.

Make it match the stats. The Jagermech alone is enough to say he knows how to turn straw into gold here.

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

i'll go with the stats vote but its hard to say whats wrong with the orions artwork seeing how theres only the 1-K. 1-M and 3-MX to choose from. form what ive looked at the only artwork that doesnt follow its starts is the 1k and i havent seen any artwork for the 1-V 1-VA 1-V-DC (these all cary SRM4 in each arm and a ML)

[Vechs]

Lightdragon, on 06 July 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

thats not an orion... thats the perseus

Nah, I'm pretty sure he said he drew the Orion there. Let me check...

...

Umm...

Perseus:


and Orion:



You can tell that render is an Orion, because it has the LRMs in the hand and not the shoulder.

[Erwiin]

The ON1-M has an LRM-20 in the left arm.

[Insidious Johnson]

Finally, a great topic! Thanks OP. I like the posted stats, but want the iconic arm. I'm going with torso was a typo.

[Spheroid]

There will be no Orion mech or any other mechs that use drum type missile launchers by launch. This would mean no Zeus either.

Mech designs seem to include universal ingame parts which appear at this point to be rectangular missile boxes for LRM/SRMs.

I assume they will need at some point to design non-rectangular weapons for designs like the Clan Summoner/Thor.

Edited by Spheroid, 06 July 2012 - 08:52 PM.