384 replies to this topic

[o0Marduk0o]

bad arcade kitty, on 17 August 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

... well, it's pgi, i bet their designers never even played in the proper elo based games like lol/dota

Uhm, you have the same one-sided matches in those games.

[bad arcade kitty]

o0Marduk0o, on 17 August 2015 - 09:57 PM, said:

Uhm, you have the same one-sided matches in those games.

snowballing is mostly a game mechanics problem than a mm one; then, their idea to divide players by tiers for mm purposes is good too, what i criticize it's their usage of scoring to determine player's rating, it will have a few pretty unpleasant consequences, like it can make the whole gameplay more passive (people will use each other as a mobile armor to secure their score), can kill what we have of the role warfare (not secure enough to play lights), can hurt capping as the alternative way to win in conquest/skirmish, also opens a huge possibilty for trolling intentionally decreasing your and team score

then, they still didn't separate solo and group elo and it's a major flaw too

[o0Marduk0o]

bad arcade kitty, on 17 August 2015 - 10:06 PM, said:

then, they still didn't separate solo and group elo and it's a major flaw too

Even in a group you get you individual rating, there is no point to differ between groups and solos anymore.

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 17 August 2015 - 10:29 PM.

[Sarlic]

Thank you.

[Red Legs Greaves]

So I'm not complaining about the ELO change it was over do, but when are they ever going to do something about CW? I love battletech but right now there's two options, either play the same thing over and over again with no goal in random matches or get clubbed like a seal in CW by a 12 man with little rewards. I'm not saying 12 mans shouldn't win if they're up against pugs but atleast make the beating worth it. Don't get me wrong I think PGI has done some very good things lately but hyping CW as this top tier comp gaming then seemingly abandoning it has left a bitter taste in my mouth.

[bad arcade kitty]

o0Marduk0o, on 17 August 2015 - 10:28 PM, said:

Even in a group you get you individual rating, there is no point to differ between groups and solos anymore.

yes there is

mixing group and soloq rating makes that a strong group can increase your rating higher than your personal skill

it means that on the one hand you can use your falsely high rating for e-peen waving and on the other it will hurt your soloq teammates who now have to carry you instead of your usual group when you drop solo

btw, the visible elo is always soloq elo, in lol, dota etc

group queue visible elo belongs to established groups

[NeoCodex]

Wow so many complaints over ELO reset, without even giving it a try. This community is impossible to please. I think it's a great change. At least they are trying. The values can still be adjusted if it comes to serious defects, while before nothing could really be adjusted, at all.

And godsend for the UI updates. In the last patch I was very vocal about the filters not persisting and extra clicking to show the equipped modules, and it's already fixed now. Almost feel bad about my complaints, because the mech select is awesome, it was just those few nitpicks that were critical for routine functionality. Just not used to things being updated so fast, this is really unussual for PGI.

Edited by NeoCodex, 17 August 2015 - 10:46 PM.

[Evil Ed]

I guess Cheeta is still $/MC only?

[o0Marduk0o]

bad arcade kitty, on 17 August 2015 - 10:41 PM, said:

yes there is

mixing group and soloq rating makes that a strong group can increase your rating higher than your personal skill

How? All you share is the win condition and the commucation between your group mates.
A group can't help you, when you can't hit a barn door.

[Gas Guzzler]

Evil Ed, on 17 August 2015 - 10:52 PM, said:

I guess Cheeta is still $/MC only?

Yeah for 1.5 to 2 more months I believe. In the mean time the Firestarter is still good.

[Kmieciu]

Deathlike, on 17 August 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

One of the tricks I used to get the "easy" 30 points in any of those "match score challenges" was by simply placing a UAV in a decent area and collect the points.

A well placed UAV can make or break a PUG match :-)

[bad arcade kitty]

o0Marduk0o, on 17 August 2015 - 11:00 PM, said:

How? All you share is the win condition and the commucation between your group mates.
A group can't help you, when you can't hit a barn door.

are you silly or you are pretend? playing with a strong group creates favorable situations for bad players to get some score so their group win is counted to their rating

[bad arcade kitty]

NeoCodex, on 17 August 2015 - 10:42 PM, said:

Wow so many complaints over ELO reset, without even giving it a try. This community is impossible to please. I think it's a great change. At least they are trying. The values can still be adjusted if it comes to serious defects, while before nothing could really be adjusted, at all.

And godsend for the UI updates. In the last patch I was very vocal about the filters not persisting and extra clicking to show the equipped modules, and it's already fixed now. Almost feel bad about my complaints, because the mech select is awesome, it was just those few nitpicks that were critical for routine functionality. Just not used to things being updated so fast, this is really unussual for PGI.

you know, sometimes you know that something is bad without trying it yourself

you don't believe me? then go drink a cup of machine oil... oh you don't want? b-but, how you can judge it not trying it first

[627]

hmm. personal skill rating... so... no more drunk mech drivin? Damn I don't need weight class PSRs, I need one for sober and one for drunk piloting

But for the absence of weight class rating, maybe the secret® formula already has that with a multiplier. 1.5x for light, 1.2x for medium, 0.8x for heavy and 1.0x for assault. But who knows...

[Domenoth]

bad arcade kitty, on 17 August 2015 - 11:32 PM, said:

you know, sometimes you know that something is bad without trying it yourself

you don't believe me? then go drink a cup of machine oil... oh you don't want? b-but, how you can judge it not trying it first

I don't care about the conversation at large, but this is just a horrible comparison. The effects of machine oil are known to be bad for the human body. Go ahead and say what you want to say but you're going to have to do better than that for your counter-example.

[bad arcade kitty]

Domenoth, on 17 August 2015 - 11:36 PM, said:

I don't care about the conversation at large, but this is just a horrible comparison. The effects of machine oil are known to be bad for the human body.

and the effects of introducing some measure of the personal performance to win/loss based elo are known to be bad as well, mind you

btw machine oil was used to bake the bread sometimes, but that's off-topic

[EarlGrey83]

I like a new elo system as much as anyone else, and this Skill-Rating system seems promissing.

It is btw a welcomend buff to all kind of scout mechs and information warfare systems,
not only do you progress while bringing a uav, you also get a higher chance of getting teammates who can make use of it.

[NeoCodex]

bad arcade kitty, on 17 August 2015 - 11:40 PM, said:

and the effects of introducing some measure of the personal performance to win/loss based elo are known to be bad as well, mind you

btw machine oil was used to bake the bread sometimes, but that's off-topic

I think it's for the better and here's why. Who enjoys being consistenly top on score and kills in a losing game with 1/3 or more of the team with numbers below 30, being wiped the first minute, not playing with the tam at all or just being completely useless? There's obviously something wrong here, and those guys certainly don't belong in your "ELO" group, because at least I always carry my weight, even whenever we get completely stomped, I will always walk off from game with at least near 30 points and 100 damage or maybe even securing the only kill or two at the very minimum (unless being headshot or afk at start), so if I can do it, why can't the rest of my team? Therefore I have no clue how someone (and so many on my team at once) can do so much worse, so very often. It just feels bad man, and after few games like that you lose the will to keep playing. I don't see how the new skill system would make this worse. If they can't even put up a decent match score in most games, than why are they in my group?

Yeah, it can and still will happen sometimes but we all know that right now this happens far too often, and good matches are very rare with the current system. Hoping to see less stomps and good competitors on both sides, once the system settles in (give it a month at least!).

Let me give you a comparison with another game I played back in the day; it's not WoT but kind of similiar. It has 5 tech tiers spread across 12 ranks of power for the matchmaker in which you can be matched. Most new and inexperienced players will be playing in the first 5 ranks for quite a while, but any good player that will go queue up in a low ranked game (no reason except for fun and shorter wait time) with a very simple optimised spartan meta build that the tech tier allows, 90% of his game comes from his knowledge and skill - and what happens is, every single time he will dominate the 12v12 team respawn tdm objective game with at least 15-20 kills (other players having 0-5 at most) and total damage of the rest of his team combined together.

How is this even possible? It is, because a veteran played with and against players that just started the game, and even tough his win ratio can be close to everyone else's - this has no meaning. The only thing MM looks at is what rank you are queuing up. Yeah, sure, it will try to balance out your elo, but it can't work out that huge skill gap. The only thing that influenced the outcome of that game was complete domination of an experienced player in a 12v12, and that was because he was matched in a low ranked game.

Now imagine, if such players would continously be matched with just everyone based on their win ratio? How can you compare this guy and say ok, he has 2300 elo so we'll put him up in a game with average 1800 elo with some lower elo players on his team, so perhaps it will balance out, right? ...Right?

As the devs have said: this is not chess. ELO does not work in a team game. It never can, it never will. It can only work in 1:1 scenario, and the more variables you throw in, the more obsolete it becomes.

Edited by NeoCodex, 18 August 2015 - 12:43 AM.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

Don t expect too much from the ELO change.

[Nik Reaper]

I really hope they will introduce at least separate solo and group que score, as said a real group score would be to a specific group , but even one where its mesured when just in group is better then just having that performance expectation carry through to solo.

PGI mentioned at some point that they might work on an elo for groups but this came first , so I hope they will at some point upgrade this system to monitor mech class and solo or group after a test period ( hopefully not a year or more x( ) .