43 replies to this topic

[Wyest]

GaiDaigoji, on 17 August 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

The new pilot rating system really isn't fair to 3025 players. Since we are gimped because we have to pack more Single Heat Sinks, which are inefficient compared to the same heat dissipation rate as DHS, we end up fighting the heat scale instead of being able to finish off our opponent. We move slower, thus cannot engange the enemy as fast or get outdistanced by allies, thus score less overall match points as well.

Actually, it's more fair than ELO.

You would typically do very poorly with a 3025 mech against a 3050, so your ranking will, naturally, drop. That means you'll get to play more against either bad pilots or other 3025 handicapped pilots. Since these will generally perform in the same band in a typical match, you would therefore have more of an even chance against them.

If you happen to start ranking up in a 3025 mech, well, your handicap will still apply but you'll facing better pilots...

In short, it's actually better for you and working as intended.

Edited by Wyest, 17 August 2015 - 08:35 PM.

[Xetelian]

I've been known to roleplay, had a lot of DnD books growing up.

However I draw the line at playing like its 3025 when its 3052? or so in the game/meta.

When you are a detriment to your team you're doing it all wrong and shouldn't have.

A tier 1 pilot can kick a lot of fannies, even in a stock mech, but he becomes a detriment the moment match making assigned another tier 1 pilot in a fully upgraded mech as an opponent.

PSA: Don't roleplay and drive.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Man... I wish there was a random 3025 stock mech mode...

[Pjwned]

I don't see the problem, you gimp yourself intentionally and (self admittedly) do worse for it, so you face lesser opponents and you stop scrubbing it up on teams where ELO would improperly place you.

Want to have a higher pilot rating? Don't gimp yourself.

[VaudeVillain]

The thing about it, back when the scoring system was based on damage done, I did well, but because the scoring system now requires you to keep up with the group and you don't start getting any points until the first hit, that puts any slow 'Mech at a disadvantage. Sure, it's usually Assaults and they start out slowly and make it up as you go along.

The thing about most people's responses are the fact they never tried playing customized 3025 'Mechs. Note that I said customized, not stock, because stock is designed for TT, so it can't cope with the Solaris VII weapons/heat rules MWO uses. While even in game, I've seen people scoff at me with my old tech, they are pretty quiet when I end up doing top damage, yes, even with Clan 'Mechs on the team.

The whole purpose of this post is that the older tech is continually overlooked, but it is part of the game, so it shouldn't be ignored. It would also help those who buy stock 'Mechs and have to save up for more advanced weaponry or are just levelling to be more viable than just cannon fodder.

[Pjwned]

GaiDaigoji, on 18 August 2015 - 03:24 AM, said:

The whole purpose of this post is that the older tech is continually overlooked, but it is part of the game, so it shouldn't be ignored.

Nope, if you want to roleplay with 3025 mechs then stay in the dregs; nobody cares except roleplayers.

Quote

It would also help those who buy stock 'Mechs and have to save up for more advanced weaponry or are just levelling to be more viable than just cannon fodder.

That's a problem with the mech tree and the high cost of equipment, not PSR. Additionally, you don't have a single solution to offer up so this is just 100% whining.

[Tyler Valentine]

Wintersdark, on 17 August 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

I'd LOVE a 3025 mode, though, if the heat system was fixed so SHS weren't so tremendously unfun to use.

Yes Please!

[M4rtyr]

Wintersdark, on 17 August 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Don't get me wrong, whatever floats your boat. I'd be all into this if our heat system wasn't so horribly awful with respect to SHS (and DHS too, for that matter, but the problems are much more awful with SHS).

However...

The day someone in a 3025 stock mech takes down one of my clan mechs in MWO is the day I hang up my Ghost Bear tag. I can't think of a single 3025 era stock mech that's even what I'd consider usable in random solo play and I'm in no way a "meta tryhard" sort - I use all the mechs, even the bad ones.

I'd LOVE a 3025 mode, though, if the heat system was fixed so SHS weren't so tremendously unfun to use.

This is also due to crap balance not just crap heat mechanics. But you get a stock brawler build and a map where you can get in point blank un touched and you'll have a fair chance to take down a clanner, just like in the books. Get in close with an AC/20 and you can do some good damage. But MWO has too much screwed up to show some of this effectively.

[Corrado]

so. if there is a 3025 mod, can we call "historic" mod or "closer future"?

anyway, since i dont know a square about BT, i would like to see more game modes rather than maps/fixes. i think would be funny to dive in modes involving BT stock mechs.. i think it will be hard for me to play something with 4-5 weapongroups but why not.

[Wintersdark]

M4rtyr, on 18 August 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

This is also due to crap balance not just crap heat mechanics. But you get a stock brawler build and a map where you can get in point blank un touched and you'll have a fair chance to take down a clanner, just like in the books. Get in close with an AC/20 and you can do some good damage. But MWO has too much screwed up to show some of this effectively.

for a couple mediums, like a 4G or YLW, sure... But that's about it, and only vs. a mediocre medium with a mediocre pilot.

SHS's are simply broken in MWO, and most weapons are very hot. Even just firing an ac20 and a couple medium lasers, you're going to have your damage output heatcapped very quickly.

I'd start a brawl motionless at 100m from a stock 3025 in one of my clan mechs or practically any of my tuned IS mechs (practically any, because a locust would likely die before he could get to speed) and not feel the tiniest bit of concern... And that's basically giving him a free ac20 she'll anywhere he likes. SHS are a terrible, terrible liability.

Corrado, on 18 August 2015 - 01:53 PM, said:

so. if there is a 3025 mod, can we call "historic" mod or "closer future"?

anyway, since i dont know a square about BT, i would like to see more game modes rather than maps/fixes. i think would be funny to dive in modes involving BT stock mechs.. i think it will be hard for me to play something with 4-5 weapongroups but why not.

we can't have more game modes until the player base is willing to give up hard game mode selection.

[VaudeVillain]

When you buy a game, car, whatever, you expect it all to work don't you, not just the parts you use. So, until 3025 tech is removed completely, it is valid to request that it's inherit problems be addressed. That's fine if you don't want to play this way, then don't.

What people are saying is more akin to someone saying "Why aren't playing only the Meta builds!!", because otherwise you are gimping the damage/win potential playing anything less than anything else. The answer of course is that people want choices and variety and that is why everyone isn't only doing meta builds/'Mechs.

Edited by GaiDaigoji, 18 August 2015 - 03:39 PM.

[Wyest]

GaiDaigoji, on 18 August 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

So, until 3025 tech is removed completely, it is valid to request that it's inherit problems be addressed. That's fine if you don't want to play this way, then don't.

You aren't asking for problems to be addressed. You're complaining that the new ranking system isn't fair to you with your self-applied handicap. It is, you just don't like that it means you're in a lower tier.

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What people are saying is more akin to someone saying "Why aren't playing only the Meta builds!!"

No. It's nothing to do with 'meta', and everything to do with your self-applied handicap.

You handicapped your mechs, deliberately in your case, newer players it may not be, but the effect is the same. While running these handicapped mechs, you are slower, run hotter and are slower to apply damage. You've admitted as much in earlier posts.

You will, as a result of the fact that you are slower, hotter and running a lower damage per second build, end up in the lower tier brackets where your combat performance in that slower, hotter, lower damage mech is even with other mechs and pilots with simlar performance. You are now playing on as even a playing field as is possible to achieve in the game as it stands.

You posted, and I quote the title here, that the "new pilot rating system not fair to 3025 players". I can't see how the system above is anything BUT fair. It doesn't care about your tech level, or your skill, or your ego, only about your performance. You perform at X level, you face players at X level. If you do better, you go up until you balance out again. If you do worse, you go down until it balances out again.

That's got nothing to do with tech level, and everything to do with comparable performance.
But you don't seem to care about that. What you seem to want is your self-applied handicap to get a bonus for existing. Sorry, on that point, I don't agree.

[Lyoto Machida]

GaiDaigoji, on 18 August 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

When you buy a game, car, whatever, you expect it all to work don't you, not just the parts you use. So, until 3025 tech is removed completely, it is valid to request that it's inherit problems be addressed. That's fine if you don't want to play this way, then don't.

What people are saying is more akin to someone saying "Why aren't playing only the Meta builds!!", because otherwise you are gimping the damage/win potential playing anything less than anything else. The answer of course is that people want choices and variety and that is why everyone isn't only doing meta builds/'Mechs.

I get it...you're like the diehard stick guys that still drive manual transmission cars, even though the newer sport autos are faster than most drivers in a manual. Or joystick guys in this game that like the immersion a stick gives you at the cost of performance. You're free to do so...just realize that PGI isn't under any obligation to make things any easier for you.

[BarHaid]

All this back and forth makes me realize we need some new achievements; "get X kills in a stock mech"!

[VaudeVillain]

As a Battletech fan, the 'Mechs that make up the 3025 TR contributed to a majority of the lore that MechWarrior is based on. People want to see Urbanmechs, Warhammers, Marauders, etc because that is part of the story despite there being better 'Mechs. I'm just wanting to live the experience in the game as well because it is a major part of Battletech. MWO is more Battletech than MechWarrior...well, more Solaris VII, but still more Battletech.

So,yes, because SHS dissipation is broken, PPC hit registration is off, I can't score as well, which if thing were broken with what you use, you would want it fixed as well. In all reality, I can live (but not necessarily like) with the scoring system, so long as the equipment works, but as it is, the new scoring system compounds the problems that haven't been fixed.

As I said before, you can criticize this all you want, but until you've told me you customized some 3025 'Mechs, then you really don't understand. The game play is different AND fun.

So far, everyone has essentially admitted that the new rating system is unfair to 3025 players simply because we can't quite keep up with the group or do as much damage, which is compounded by broken implementation of some old tech. While many ask why bother playing old tech, the point is, my post is valid.

I don't quite understand all the hate, because the lower scoring will keep 3025 players out of the higher brackets, yet won't affect the individual player who might be in the same bracket since even with a loss, a player can move up.

Edited by GaiDaigoji, 18 August 2015 - 05:51 PM.

[Fiona Marshe]

I've taken out Warhawks and Timberwolves in my 3025 stock CAT-C4 (using indirect fire, of course), so it is doable. Got the 'most damage' score for them as well.

[Lyoto Machida]

GaiDaigoji, on 18 August 2015 - 05:38 PM, said:

As a Battletech fan, the 'Mechs that make up the 3025 TR contributed to a majority of the lore that MechWarrior is based on. People want to see Urbanmechs, Warhammers, Marauders, etc because that is part of the story despite there being better 'Mechs. I'm just wanting to live the experience in the game as well because it is a major part of Battletech. MWO is more Battletech than MechWarrior...well, more Solaris VII, but still more Battletech.

So,yes, because SHS dissipation is broken, PPC hit registration is off, I can't score as well, which if thing were broken with what you use, you would want it fixed as well. In all reality, I can live (but not necessarily like) with the scoring system, so long as the equipment works, but as it is, the new scoring system compounds the problems that haven't been fixed.

As I said before, you can criticize this all you want, but until you've told me you customized some 3025 'Mechs, then you really don't understand. The game play is different AND fun.

So far, everyone has essentially admitted that the new rating system is unfair to 3025 players simply because we can't quite keep up with the group or do as much damage, which is compounded by broken implementation of some old tech. While many ask why bother playing old tech, the point is, my post is valid.

I don't quite understand all the hate, because the lower scoring will keep 3025 players out of the higher brackets, yet won't affect the individual player who might be in the same bracket since even with a loss, a player can move up.

I've done it during Stock Mech Mondays (tier 1 IS tech) in the past...default weapon, armor and ammo locations with SHS. The game engine is WAY more balanced that way and TTK seems higher. Shoot off two LRM 20s at the same time in the C4 and you might have to cool down for awhile to recover from that shot. You have to give your back to opponents sometimes because you might have 30 armor back there stock. Two Wolverines (6K and 7K) have more armor stock (370 and 368) than a Victor 9S (336). No modules or strikes and the game plays slower...it actually feels like Battletech.

The difference between that and your scenario is that you're trying to do this with people who aren't obligated to drive low firepower SHS mechs. PGI should make a stock mode, as well as different tech level limits (if the playerbase ever gets large enough to support the queue split). Until then, running 3025 tech in these games is just setting yourself up for failure. But as other people have said, you'll eventually equalize to whatever tier you are supposed to be in, based on your performances against kitted out, DHS mechs.

[MrMadguy]

Instead, new system is extremely fair: it doesn't care about pointless W/L ratio - it cares about your match score and therefore - about your CB and XP income. Now weaker players on weaker 'Mechs will be matched only against weaker players on weaker 'Mechs. Extremely fair!

[Wyest]

GaiDaigoji, on 18 August 2015 - 05:38 PM, said:

So far, everyone has essentially admitted that the new rating system is unfair to 3025 players simply because we can't quite keep up with the group or do as much damage, which is compounded by broken implementation of some old tech.

That is not the rating system's fault.
That is your choice for playing a 3025 limited mech in a 3050 open game.

The system is working off your personal performance in matches.
If you're running 3025 tech and not performing well, you get rated down.
If you're running 3025 tech and performing well, you get rated up.
If you're running 3025 tech and performing evenly, your rating doesn't move.
If anything, it's far more fair than ELO ever was, especially for 3025 mechs...

[jss78]

Lexx, on 17 August 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:

I really hope this thread is a joke. If you're going to limit yourself to single heat sinks and lvl 1 weapons, do it in a private lobby with friends that are playing with the same limitations. I wouldn't even want to be in a pug match with someone limiting themselves to 3025 tech, god forbid have you on my team in a CW match.

Clanners beware, I'm going to kill you all with my 3025 tech Stalker!

STK-4N

Weeellll ... I'd actually wager that if you put a halfway decent pilot in that Stalker in something like Tier-4 PUG games, he'd do just fine. Gimped of course, but still you got three high-mounted LL's in a decently mobile and survivable package. Heat management's OK too. It's better than I expected, that's all I'm saying.