17 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Some informative stuff. Seems PGI will not work on the re-scaling until Resistance II and Origins IIC are done.
The re-scaling will also not be global, but on certain sections of the mech. Complicated stuff.

https://youtu.be/-Ii4NjRKm60?t=1089

Art Director Dennis' face when mech-rescaling was mentioned:




.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 August 2015 - 03:35 AM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

and urbie IIC, and kodiak.

[Alek Ituin]

F**k, most Mechs only need one or two sections fixed anyway.

Take what you can get, right?

[Lily from animove]

Don't touch my nova, its awesome the way it is.
But in the end, good news. it means the Nova keeps looking great for a longer time.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

It does depend on the mech, many mediums are proportioned fairly well in relation to themselves, they are just simply too large. Mechs like the Awesome and Quickdraw however do suffer from only a section or two really being proportioned oddly. He is definitely right about how much difference 1% global reduction makes.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 20 August 2015 - 03:34 AM.

[Paigan]

Lily from animove, on 20 August 2015 - 03:30 AM, said:

Don't touch my nova, its awesome the way it is.
But in the end, good news. it means the Nova keeps looking great for a longer time.

Wait, what?
The biggest giant scale failure in the game is right as it is?
I mean it's not just an aesthetical thing, it's also how easily hit you are.
And you are fine with a 50tonner having the silhouette of an assault mech?

Edited by Paigan, 20 August 2015 - 03:51 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Paigan, on 20 August 2015 - 03:50 AM, said:

Wait, what?
The biggest giant scale failure in the game is right as it is?
I mean it's not just an aesthetical thing, it's also how easily hit you are.
And you are fine with a 50tonner having the silhouette of an assault mech?

I was fine enough to pay 500$ for it, And it was known before how this turns out.

If I want a ****** looking mech being awesme I would use a SCR. It does anything better than boating 12+ lasers anyways.
So yes I want the NVA to look awesome over playability, because if i want palybility I'd choose other mechs. and even a rescale will not bring the NVA in a comparable state to those mechs available as alternate.

Seriously, the HP quirks were proper compensation for bad hitboxes, probably PGI could have added more to CT, and not added so many to the legs. And it would have been in a very well place.

The only thing the NVA lacks to be NVA is the legs attached to the ST's but this si already said not possible due to reasons how mechs are basically built in MWO.

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 August 2015 - 03:59 AM.

[Paigan]

Lily from animove, on 20 August 2015 - 03:58 AM, said:

I was fine enough to pay 500$ for it, And it was known before how this turns out.

If I want a ****** looking mech being awesme I would use a SCR. It does anything better than boating 12+ lasers anyways.
So yes I want the NVA to look awesome over playability, because if i want palybility I'd choose other mechs. and even a rescale will not bring the NVA in a comparable state to those mechs available as alternate.

Seriously, the HP quirks were proper compensation for bad hitboxes, probably PGI could have added more to CT, and not added so many to the legs. And it would have been in a very well place.

The only thing the NVA lacks to be NVA is the legs attached to the ST's but this si already said not possible due to reasons how mechs are basically built in MWO.

Interesting point of view.
Then let me phrase the argument this way:

If looking huge is sexy for you then I must say the Nova has it's sexiness unearned. It's a 50tonner, not an assault mech.
If consistency for balance reasons was irrelevant, I would hereby demand my EXE to be scaled down to Urbi size.

Edited by Paigan, 20 August 2015 - 04:32 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Paigan, on 20 August 2015 - 04:31 AM, said:

Interesting point of view.
Then let me phrase the argument this way:

If looking huge is sexy for you then I must say the Nova has it's sexiness unearned. It's a 50tonner, not an assault mech.
If consistency for balance reasons was irrelevant, I would hereby demand my EXE to be scaled down to Urbi size.

The sexyness does not come from lookign huge, it comes form looking like the NVA,



They jsust lifted it up because of the need for torso twist thing.


what matters in the mechdesing is LORE, a mech needs to look recognizeable by its lore way of the looks. Otherwise PGI could just make completely own mechs with own names. And yes the Nova by lore always as as wide as an assault. Not just that high, Because it never had a torso as it has now due to technical MWO reasons. The right propeortions is what makes and breaks a mechs distinctive design.
And there comes the issue. If PGI scals the entire model, the greta design stays, but it violates with the lore, because NVA and SCR share the same legs. If they stick with this they only can rescale the upper part of the mech. but then proportions will break and the design will look odd and incorrect.

I could also ask, does the HBR deserve its high mounted hardpoints, and the SMN not? Does the TBR deserve having so much more hardpoints than the SMN? Thats also not "fair" on the comparison chart, but its lore. and MWO is based on BT.
Quirks were a good way to keep the lore discrepancies in visuals and compensate for.
Otherwise you have to drop hardpoints and construction rules entirely and make it like MW3 where you can slap things on your mech as long as slots and tonnage allow. Then its kinda "fair" by construction rules. But geometry still applies.

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 August 2015 - 06:02 AM.

[Viges]

El Bandito, on 20 August 2015 - 03:23 AM, said:

.

More like " jeez these cameos deadlines are killing me"

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Lily from animove, on 20 August 2015 - 04:56 AM, said:

And there comes the issue. If PGI scals the entire model, the greta design stays, but it violates with the lore, because NVA and SCR share the same legs.

Just because it "violates" lore doesn't mean it is necessarily a bad thing, especially if we are really nitpicking about something like how the Nova, Viper, and SCrow are all supposed to share the same legs or in the case of the Mad Dog which just continued the trend of oversized 60 tonners.

[Juodas Varnas]

WM Quicksilver, on 20 August 2015 - 06:09 AM, said:

Just because it "violates" lore doesn't mean it is necessarily a bad thing, especially if we are really nitpicking about something like how the Nova, Viper, and SCrow are all supposed to share the same legs or in the case of the Mad Dog which just continued the trend of oversized 60 tonners.

Mad Dog is still easily the smallest 60 tonner. All it needs is a stance change to make it more squat. (Maybe even some hitbox change, but since it has Clan XL engine, it's less of an issue to have large side torsos.)

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 20 August 2015 - 03:23 AM, said:

Some informative stuff. Seems PGI will not work on the re-scaling until Resistance II and Origins IIC are done.
The re-scaling will also not be global, but on certain sections of the mech. Complicated stuff.

https://youtu.be/-Ii4NjRKm60?t=1089

Art Director Dennis' face when mech-rescaling was mentioned:




.

Can you blame him?

[Lily from animove]

This pic is going to be in many future mechwarrior memes

WM Quicksilver, on 20 August 2015 - 06:09 AM, said:

Just because it "violates" lore doesn't mean it is necessarily a bad thing, especially if we are really nitpicking about something like how the Nova, Viper, and SCrow are all supposed to share the same legs or in the case of the Mad Dog which just continued the trend of oversized 60 tonners.

if you nitpick on this scale, you will anyways NEVER use a NVA because the SCR is so much superior that no rescal in the entire world will make the NVA come above the SCR, And this is the entire point: want a good mech, use SCR, want a good lookign emch use NVA. But no oen has need for a inferior mech not even lookign good. Thats IFR niveau: forgotten at the homeplanets, not even worth to be put into the Jumpships to IS terrain.
All PGI had to ensure was to make the NVA not beign total trash playwise, which the quirks basically helped already. A rescale wouldn't really be needed. But popularity votes are popularity votes and many mechs were chosen by this, not by "needing it" And many people just thought: rescale = positive. They probably never thought about, how this would turn out, and if that even would be able to help a mech.

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 August 2015 - 06:32 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Lily from animove, on 20 August 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

if you nitpick on this scale, you will anyways NEVER use a NVA because the SCR is so much superior that no rescal in the entire world will make the NVA come above the SCR

There are two reason you need to nitpick on scale:

• Size/profile is generally a good visual cue on how heavy the mech is. Mechs like this ruin that visual cue by being way larger than it needs to be. It would look goofy if the Locust was the same size as the Cicada, and it looks a little weird that the Nova is as big, if not slightly bigger than the Ebon Jag, it is partially about visual consistency.
  
• Just like with the Mist Lynx, just because it won't ever be as good, doesn't mean it should be hamstrung as much as possible, especially for such a silly reason as the "shared molds" part of lore. It will still suffer from bad hitboxes, it just won't be as big of a target.

Juodas Varnas, on 20 August 2015 - 06:19 AM, said:

Mad Dog is still easily the smallest 60 tonner. All it needs is a stance change to make it more squat. (Maybe even some hitbox change, but since it has Clan XL engine, it's less of an issue to have large side torsos.)

Making it more squat doesn't reduce the profile as much as you think, especially since I doubt it would be a pronounced difference. It may put it on par in size with the Jager, but it would still need to be smaller overall since it is 5 tons less.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 20 August 2015 - 06:41 AM.

[Lily from animove]

WM Quicksilver, on 20 August 2015 - 06:37 AM, said:

There are two reason you need to nitpick on scale:

• Size/profile is generally a good visual cue on how heavy the mech is. Mechs like this ruin that visual cue by being way larger than it needs to be. It would look goofy if the Locust was the same size as the Cicada, and it looks a little weird that the Nova is as big, if not slightly bigger than the Ebon Jag, it is partially about visual consistency.
  
• Just like with the Mist Lynx, just because it won't ever be as good, doesn't mean it should be hamstrung as much as possible, especially for such a silly reason as the "shared molds" part of lore. It will still suffer from bad hitboxes, it just won't be as big of a target.

MWO doesn't have this consistency except having light mechs scaled way too small. also strange is that SCR and NVA share the same legs and same lower CTbase, yet SCR s higher in the hips.

Also NVa is only as wide as an assault, but it is quite squat in comparison to many other mediums. so your perception is a bit off here.

just taken form the forum:



so size in heights isn't off at all if you want to take the 50t argument, especially when you would compare it with a HBK.

if anything is off, then its the EBJ being too small (hips are way lower than on the other mechs)

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 August 2015 - 06:51 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Lily from animove, on 20 August 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

MWO doesn't have this consistency except having light mechs scaled way too small.

It does have an overall trend, it may not be kept to completely, but there is a trend (meaning loose consistency).

Lily from animove, on 20 August 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

Also NVa is only as wide as an assault, but it is quite squat in comparison to many other mediums.
...especially when you would compare it with a HBK.

It is as tall as one of the few appropriately sized mediums, but is twice as wide, sounds like that is a problem to me. Keeping in mind that many mediums are also humanoids which means their side profile is also much thinner than a mech with a chin like the Nova, so the Nova suffers on both fronts.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 20 August 2015 - 06:55 AM.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 August 2015 - 06:21 AM, said:

Can you blame him?

Not the least. He is simply doing as he is told.