6 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

So this has probably been detailed before, but with the recent thread about the power of seismic, I kind of wanted to go through why seismic is something that needs to be expanded on because it is a great example of what makes information warfare useful (somewhat) but also touches on why information warfare is non-existent in its current state.

The answer to the topic is really simple: because radar is LOS based.

While fog of war would definitely be cool to sort of force scouting to be done, one of the major differences between MWO and MW4 and partially why radar is somewhat pointless for scouting all comes down to it being LOS based. Targeting info is nice, but the real point to scouting has always been about the location of the opFor, and since radar only works off of what you can see and radar is limited in range unlike visibility (provided you can squint hard enough). This forces radar to take a back seat in regards to that. Different sensor ranges/signal based on variants and weight would be nice, but it still doesn't change the fact that eyesight is the key to determining the location of the enemy instead of radar. Seismic is really the direction you want to take with radar to embolden information warfare.

My suggestion:
Make seismic or some sort of "wallhack" radar a standard part of all radar. Keep it so that you cannot target them, you just get the ping on your map (how it functions currently). Allow ECM/BAP/Shock Absorbance/Sensor Range module to affect it (BAP/SSR module extends your detection range, ECM/SA module reduces your signal). Differentiate the ranges of seismic based on their role/BV/etc, so a Dire Wolf could have no range for seismic sensors (effectively making it have no seismic) whereas a mech like the poor Trollmando could have a lot more range that the average mech. This may not make information warfare a key component, but it would definitely make things more interesting and make radar more important than it is currently.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 20 August 2015 - 03:21 AM.

[El Bandito]

And rework ECM. And make TAG visible through heat vision mode only. Also give us a bloody rear view camera.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 August 2015 - 03:44 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 20 August 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

And rework ECM. And make TAG visible through heat vision mode only. Also give us a bloody rear view camera.

Reworking ECM has more impact on weapon balance than actual information warfare. Even without ECM, scouting could still "technically" be done from 1000+ meters and still very much requires LOS. TAG is similar in this regard and isn't of huge use in a coordinated environment. Why waste a ton and a hardpoint when you can communicate through teamspeak where they are? They would need to have more gameplay benefit than that (like Arrow IV).

Rear view camera is also nice, but not needed. Want rear view? Give us a module that allows for rear sensors that allows you to detect mechs within LOS of your rear. Maybe give us a module that expands the angle of detection so that they don't necessarily have to be within your cockpit view (but still within view of your mech mind you) or simply make it a minor quirk.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 20 August 2015 - 04:05 AM.

[Greyhart]

They won't make a rear view mirror because it would clearly be OP.

A complete reworking of ecm, BAP, radar etc. is needed to make information warfare work.

[El Bandito]

WM Quicksilver, on 20 August 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

Reworking ECM has more impact on weapon balance than actual information warfare. Even without ECM, scouting could still "technically" be done from 1000+ meters and still very much requires LOS. TAG is similar in this regard and isn't of huge use in a coordinated environment. Why waste a ton and a hardpoint when you can communicate through teamspeak where they are? They would need to have more gameplay benefit than that (like Arrow IV).

Rear view camera is also nice, but not needed. Want rear view? Give us a module that allows for rear sensors that allows you to detect mechs within LOS of your rear. Maybe give us a module that expands the angle of detection so that they don't necessarily have to be within your cockpit view (but still within view of your mech mind you) or simply make it a minor quirk.

Really do not think a bloody rear view mirror is worth a 3-6 miilon C-Bills module slot. So no to module.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 20 August 2015 - 04:14 AM, said:

Really do not think a bloody rear view mirror is worth a 3-6 miilon C-Bills module slot. So no to module.

That isn't really a good argument, the expense isn't what is at hand (I would agree that modules are too expensive), what it should be about is how it impacts gameplay. Restricting "rear view mirrors" to certain mechs is a way to limit other mechs in capacity and give a mech sought after features when everything else may not be in its favor (like hardpoints, hitboxes, engine limit, etc). Of course, it wouldn't be restricted if it were a module, but I would be willing to bet that it wouldn't be a goto module on a mech that is limited with regards to modules.

I would love to see more limitations with modules though like I thought was originally the plan.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 20 August 2015 - 04:20 AM.

[El Bandito]

WM Quicksilver, on 20 August 2015 - 04:18 AM, said:

That isn't really a good argument, the expense isn't what is at hand (I would agree that modules are too expensive), what it should be about is how it impacts gameplay. Restricting "rear view mirrors" to certain mechs is a way to limit other mechs in capacity and give a mech sought after features when everything else may not be in its favor (like hardpoints, hitboxes, engine limit, etc).

But rear view camera is canonically a standard feature on all mechs. Might as well improve 3PV camera on handicapped mechs instead.