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Known Issue With Lrms?


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#61 Lyoto Machida

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 12:57 PM

Was curious about LRMs so I took out my AWE-8R...ran it for a game and pulled 1 kill, 805 damage. Probably a bit high on the damage/kill ratio there but nothing seemed out of the ordinary from previous weeks. I guess 1 game isn't exactly a huge sample size.

View PostMechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:


You NEED BAP and TAG to fire. What games are you playing in where theres no ECM? I wanna play too

you basically NEED target decay or youll never hit anything

Wheres the 1.5t equipment that stops lasers from working?


I don't really know that you NEED BAP for LRMs. If you're running an LRM heavy loadout and you need the BAP to counter ECM for some reason, you're probably going to be pretty screwed shortly anyway. I guess you can still fire off LRMs at targets further out while that light chews you up.

Otherwise, what are you using it for? The range extension? I guess you could be shooting LRMs out to 1000m but I almost never do. Make BAP reach out to 500m and I'd take it.

TAG is a different story though...

#62 Lynx7725

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 01:06 PM

View PostLyoto Machida, on 21 August 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

Was curious about LRMs so I took out my AWE-8R...ran it for a game and pulled 1 kill, 805 damage. Probably a bit high on the damage/kill ratio there but nothing seemed out of the ordinary from previous weeks. I guess 1 game isn't exactly a huge sample size.



I don't really know that you NEED BAP for LRMs. If you're running an LRM heavy loadout and you need the BAP to counter ECM for some reason, you're probably going to be pretty screwed shortly anyway. I guess you can still fire off LRMs at targets further out while that light chews you up.

Otherwise, what are you using it for? The range extension? I guess you could be shooting LRMs out to 1000m but I almost never do. Make BAP reach out to 500m and I'd take it.

Two reasons. One, to nullify ECM so that my teammates know there's someone after me.

Two, BAP also reduce lock times, IIRC.

#63 Chados

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 01:11 PM

I like it because BAP helps counter ECM to support brawlers when you're working close to the action. I work within 300 meters when practical for many reasons. I live by certain rules for Close Support With Missiles:

Rule 1: It's better with friends. Get up there near the fight for direct locks, tight groups, short flight time, and support from front liners looking to run up their stats. Some dude in a Heavy Metal whose fourth point of contact I was covering returned the favor and saved my bacon in River City today from a pest of a Firestarter that I couldn't lock up for SSRM fire.

Rule 2: Artemis is mandatory. It speeds lock times and tightens direct fire groups.

Rule 3: BAP is great when someone runs out of the ECM bubble because you can then see them further away. Plus, you can debuff ECM close up for your brawlers. See Rule 1.

Rule 4: Ammo is limited and lights carrying ECM are EVERYWHERE. TAG and small lasers are nice to have...SSRM2s are better, and when you tag the little S.O.B. and some other LRMer sees it...and rains the pain down on him...that's the best. I can't decide whether to carry small lasers or TAG, frankly. I only have two energy hardpoints on my C4 Cat and I'd have to lose half a ton of something to run TAG gear. But TAG speeds up SSRM lock time. It's a trade off. I can't decide, frankly.


#64 Jman5

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 01:43 PM

View PostKjudoon, on 21 August 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

True, but you are conflating the fact that you don't have a severe reduction of functionality with DF weaponry under similar circumstances requiring equipment and modules to put them back to where they were when those countermeasures were not present.

That is what is meant by 'needing it to function'. If ECM caused even a 10% reduction in the function of DF weaponry, the screams of rage would force PGI to change it in 6 hours on a weekend.


I would argue that other weapon types have a similar arms race mechanic that are more subtle, less clearly defined, and come at it from different angles. However at the end of the day it more or less balances out.

The way I see it, doing well with LRMs comes down to getting locks and getting your missiles to connect with the target. With a laserboat doing well means getting LOS and being able to cooldown frequently and safely. When any of these things are disrupted you can invest tonnage/mod slots into mitigating the disruptors. The more invested your opponent is at disrupting your build-type, the more gear is needed to brute-strength through it.

The more popular response is to hedge with a completely different weapon type. Everyone can see the value in bringing a few lasers for a LRM build. However the Gauss rifle, on top of it's primary role, serves a secondary fallback role on laser/Gauss meta mechs. They come at it from different angles (low ton vs low heat), but the end result is shoring up weaknesses in the other weapon.

While LRM enhancers and counters are more flashy and direct, there are ways to play and build mechs that make things hard for other weapon types too.

Is it perfectly balanced? Probably not, but I don't think it's as bad as a lot of people make it out to be.

Edited by Jman5, 21 August 2015 - 01:44 PM.


#65 Kjudoon

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 01:56 PM

View PostVictor Hestan, on 21 August 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:


Not what I was referring to. You start to lock on to a mech, lose the Dorito, but still continue to gain a lock. It shows you locked on to something, but there are neither the Dorito nor the brackets.

Never seen that yet.

#66 Lightfoot

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 02:25 PM

BAP reduces lock time which allows re-locking while the missiles are in flight. Poorly counters ECM. ECM actually does not affect normal LRM locks with LoS to target in Battle Tech, but in MWO...... don't forget to dumb-fire the LRMs. Sometimes your foe just wants to stand and drill you with direct-fire. Just dumb-fire the LRMs and evade.

#67 Jman5

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 02:31 PM

View PostLightfoot, on 21 August 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

BAP reduces lock time which allows re-locking while the missiles are in flight. Poorly counters ECM. ECM actually does not affect normal LRM locks with LoS to target in Battle Tech, but in MWO...... don't forget to dumb-fire the LRMs. Sometimes your foe just wants to stand and drill you with direct-fire. Just dumb-fire the LRMs and evade.

Common misconception, but BAP does not improve lock on time. It improves target info gather (paperdoll) time.

#68 Mycrus

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 02:37 PM

View PostMechwarrior Buddah, on 20 August 2015 - 04:47 PM, said:

Last game I was told theres a "known issue" with LRMs. Ive been getting 500+ damage games since the patch. Whats the issue? Never got a reply


Don't worry i believe you.

#69 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 04:08 PM

View PostJman5, on 21 August 2015 - 01:43 PM, said:



Is it perfectly balanced? Probably not, but I don't think it's as bad as a lot of people make it out to be.


Where is the 1.5 ton item that stops ballistics and lasers? thats why its unbalanced.

#70 wanderer

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 07:24 PM

View PostNightmare1, on 21 August 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:


Personally, I think LRMs are okay right now. If there had to be a change made, I would recommend doubling the damage dealt per missile while removing their indirect fire capabilities.


At that point, you have a crappy scattergun with abominable velocity that is easily outgunned by any real direct-fire weapon on the field. And a huge minimum range.

#71 Nightmare1

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 08:20 PM

View Postwanderer, on 21 August 2015 - 07:24 PM, said:

At that point, you have a crappy scattergun with abominable velocity that is easily outgunned by any real direct-fire weapon on the field. And a huge minimum range.


LRMs can never compete with direct fire weaponry. It's just not possible given their differences and inherent advantages/disadvantages. It's also not a scattergun since it is a homing stream of missiles rather than a shotgun spread like the LBX. Using small launchers plus Artemis makes for tight clusters that deal nearly all of their damage to single components.

Your complaint is not very accurate aside from the observation that LRMs cannot compete with direct fire weapons. Nor should they.

Edited by Nightmare1, 21 August 2015 - 08:21 PM.


#72 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 08:46 PM

View PostNightmare1, on 21 August 2015 - 08:20 PM, said:

Your complaint is not very accurate aside from the observation that LRMs cannot compete with direct fire weapons. Nor should they.


No; that theyre the most nerfed weapon in the game

#73 Kjudoon

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 08:47 PM

You're right long range indirect guided weapons should be the king of the battlefield much like real life. But this is a game rapidly devolving into a bad cookie cutter fps.

The inferiority of lrms is completely artificial to placate a small vocal minority.

In the end on a competitive level of play all weapon classes should ultimately be represented. Instead of Rock paper scissors we have Rock rock rock because the natural counter to direct fire has been destroyed and energy outperforms ballistics.

The problem easily boils down to damage stacking on single components in consistent precision delivery. Something all missiles lack. Since it makes no sense to give that level of precision to missiles it should be taken away from grouped weapons. This balances the key disadvantage of lrms and lroblem with ttk in one act.

Artemis does not do on the battlefield anywhere near the tightening claimed. It doez some as my use of it has shown. Just not anywhere near as much as the hatorz claim

#74 Nightmare1

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 05:14 AM

View PostMechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:


No; that theyre the most nerfed weapon in the game


Broken sentence makes no sense.

#75 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 06:36 AM

View PostNightmare1, on 22 August 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:


Broken sentence makes no sense.


wow I really cant help you

I cant make that post simpler

#76 Nightmare1

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 12:48 PM

View PostMechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:


No; that theyre the most nerfed weapon in the game

View PostMechwarrior Buddah, on 22 August 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:


wow I really cant help you

I cant make that post simpler


Allow me to help:

"No..." No what? Be specific.

"...Theyre..." Hmm, it seems you're in the business of concocting new words. Assuming you meant, "They're," then which "they're?" Are you referring to LRMs or direct fire? I mention both. I assume you mean LRMs, but you were despairingly vague.

"...most nerfed..." If with regard to LRMs, then you are incorrect. If you are referring to ballistics, then I would agree with you.

For the record, I didn't say that I couldn't understand you, only that you made no sense. I stand by that. :)

A little practice and care, and maybe you too can one day communicate coherently! ;)

#77 Kjudoon

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 02:35 PM

Going all grammarnazi does not dispell the fact that LRMs are the most artificially inhibited weapon in the game. They are no good because people whined for them to be no good because they can't handle thinking in 3 dimensions (aka forced to look up and find cover) or deal with a weapon that can be thrown over a hill.

Just because someone does not articulate his case well does not invalidate the premise.

#78 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 04:09 PM

View PostNightmare1, on 22 August 2015 - 12:48 PM, said:

"...most nerfed..." If with regard to LRMs, then you are incorrect. If you are referring to ballistics, then I would agree with you.


please point to the 1.5t item that makes it so you CANT fire your ballistics. Ill wait

#79 Kjudoon

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 04:25 PM

Well..... You can FIRE lrms.. Chances of hitting that moving target are about nil. So the comparison is functionally accurate. Lol

#80 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 22 August 2015 - 04:29 PM

View PostKjudoon, on 22 August 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

Well..... You can FIRE lrms.. Chances of hitting that moving target are about nil. So the comparison is functionally accurate. Lol


you can firs streaks without locks?





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