Yet Another Newb First Mech Advice
#1
Posted 20 August 2015 - 06:47 PM
Longtime MW fan (books and boardgame) and just finished my first 25, and thinking of buying my first mech. Reading around here seems to indicate that it's a lot about style. I personally like the long range harrassing idea (though I'm not very good at aiming yet), and I really like the idea of jumpjets. So far, my best successes have been:
1) As bait, running across a plain in a Victor, luring the other side out of cover to shoot at me so that my teammmates can hit them (but the range on the Victor's weapons is just too short for me to find it very fun). I also managed to ambush someone with an ac20 to the rear. Didn't kill him though -- he just jumped and twisted away.
and
2) Two kills by LRM spam from a Vulture. It took a *lot* of missles. Is ECM somehow cancelling out my lock on?
Anyway. Looking for advice on first mech, and any advice y'all want to lay on me.
#2
Posted 20 August 2015 - 07:18 PM
You are looking for high weapon mounts and energy ones for large sasers or ER large lasers if your aim is not good yet.
Ravens work with 2ERL , 3 LL (large lasers) or some mediums and SRMs, of witch some have jumpjets.
Any of those are good again depend on style , as they move at different speeds, are of diffrent sizes and the location of weapons and there number is not the same.
Check here for reference http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ .
And as MWO still doesn't have a half decent gallery to show of all mechs and there hardpoints you can google a mech varient and look under images to see where the weapons are located on the mech.
Edited by Nik Reaper, 20 August 2015 - 07:21 PM.
#3
Posted 20 August 2015 - 07:27 PM
It is a lot about your personal preference but thanks to being able to customise your mech, you will be able to tailor any of them towards your preference.
At this point I would suggest you think along the lines of which mechs you used from the trial mechs that you enjoyed to pilot.
You have mentioned the Victor and the Vulture/Maddog there.
Both would have felt quite different in their handling.
The Victor is quite mobile for an Assault mech and has a good variety of weapon hard points for you to mix and match with.
You will also be able to tailor it more to your liking thanks to being able to change the internal structure, armour type, heat sinks and engine.
While the IS mechs start out cheaper, these changes quickly add up in cost so keep that in mind.
The Clan mechs won't allow you to change the structural aspects but you can change the omnipods to get different hardpoints.
They will be more expensive up front as a result.
Weapon selection wise... it's not going to matter too much what comes as default on the mech you pick as you will be able to change them for something else provided you have the c-bills or some spares in your inventory.
It sounds like you want to favour:
Large Lasers
PPCs
AC2 or AC5s
LRM 5, 10, 15 or 20s
Gauss Rifles.
You will be able to kit out your mech to your long range harassment pleasure as much as you like.
Based on what you have said there, the Victor is probably a good first choice for you and you may be able to get 3 variants pretty quickly to master the skill levels with.
In regard to the LRMs, yes, if an enemy target is protected by ECM they will not appear for you to get a lock on and if they do, it may take a lot longer than normal if they are under ECM.
Blind firing the missiles will likely mean you miss and the LRMs are no use under about 150m from the target.
Quite good fun if you have a forward spotter though.
Edited by 50 50, 20 August 2015 - 07:32 PM.
#4
Posted 20 August 2015 - 09:27 PM
Hunchbacks
To me if you are grinding with C-bills, the HBK's are the most flexible, and the cheapest way to really try just about any weapon in the game.
the 4SP, 4P, and 4H are the goto first mechs to try from my point of view. I say the 4SP over the 4J, while the J makes a great LRM mech it needs an XL to shine, and letting the player go with the 4SP, as it's hunchless. The hitboxes are more balanced and can actually use an XL engine for a bit harder hitting builds down the road. I say the 4H over the 4G, as the ac-10 carries more ammo for longer range, and can carry more lasers. It is a bit more forgiving than the all out short range brawler of the 4G with it's ac-20.
all that said, the 4H can run a ac-20 or gauss, the 4SP, SRM, streaks, or LRMS, and the 4P is king with energy, and can run anything from boating small lasers or mediums, or running a few harder hitting large, large pulse or even PPC..s
Centurions
Centurions are another great betbut more limited. The AH, AL, and A are a great trio to start with, but they are mainly all ballistic mechs Or missile, with energy back up, though the AH is a brawling king with an ac-20+ dual SRM4's.. It hits like a ton of bricks, and really fast. The draw back of them is they are not as flexible as the HBK's, But the plus side is they all can be build using XL builds for caring more weapons/speed, though XL builds are not always a great thing for new players, but something that would be a good thing down the road.
They typically are faster brawlers than the HBK's with a bit better hit boxes, But limited in weapon selection, and need expensive XL's to do many of their best builds. Also, no way to boat energy if that is something you would like to try with your first set of mechs, picking this one you are outta luck.
Shadow Hawks (if you really want jump jets.. these are the ones to try, and honestly not to bad C-bill wise... just more expensive than the other two i said)
If you wan't to splurge and buy a mastery pack which are on sale right now, i would highly recommend the shadow hawk package. It comes with two great XL engines which are very valuable, and the package has a nice hero, nice champion for grinding GXP, (something you need to unlock modules) and are all very flexible, like the hunchbacks, you can really try just about every weapon in the game with them. One of them has an STD engine you can swap around between mechs, or even buying an extra 260, or 300 with your c-bills early to make non XL builds is pretty cheap. But the two XL's the package comes with can be used in tons of mechs and builds down the road, and save ya around 10m which is nothing to sneeze at..
Clans.. If your gonna grind them and don't have tons of hours to put it, i would highly advice against it, they are just to expensive. If you wanna buy a package, then that aspect is gone, and not a bad idea, though i would say stay away from the stormcrow or timber to start, as others have mentioned they are high priority targets, which never works out well for new players.
Edited by JC Daxion, 20 August 2015 - 09:28 PM.
#5
Posted 20 August 2015 - 09:39 PM
Inner Sphere:
-Blackjack. Not the best mech out there, but has reasonably high arm weapon mounts and jump jets. Not exactly a slow mech. Small end of medium mechs (unlike SHD, GRF, and WVR, which are ENORMOUS in size, and thus easier to hit). Some cool hardpoint options. Lack of hand and lower arm actuators lets you mount some craziness (the BJ-1(C), for instance) in an arm.
-ShadowHawk. High torso mount, usually ballistic, great for firing from range. Basically useless left arm can be stripped to save weight, though it's not much of a shield. Still, mobile with JJs and great long-range direct-fire options.
-Thunderbolt. TDR-9SE gives you JJs and high torso mounts for energy weapons. And it's a heavy mech, so more armor.
-RVN-3L/3L(C). No JJs, but high energy mounts in the RA, ECM, good speed. One of my favorite mechs from open beta.
-King Crab. Again, not a jumper. But 100-ton mech means MAD armor, to help with surviving. High torso mount for energy weapons. LOTS of weight for multiple heavy weapon systems. Want one with a pair of ERLLs and FOUR UAC/5s? KGC can hook that up. Not fast, can't jump, no ECM, and MAJOR bullet magnet. Also, can handle it all. Twists well, low silhouette, and just looks mean as f***. We were asking for it three years ago, and we finally got it. The wait? TOTES worth it!
Clan:
-Shadow Cat. If you INSIST on JJs, this is your medium pokey. ECM-capable, a torso energy mount, low profile, JJs, MASC atop a 97.2kph base max speed, and some decent arm weapon options (though nothing too overwhelming). It's mobile and it hides well.
-Timberwolf. BEST.MECH.IN.THE.GAME. TBR-S has JJ. Options for ballistic, energy, and missile weapons, all sorts of potential configurations, lotsa room for goodies.
-Ebon Jaguar. You'll give up JJs, but you still get a good high torso weapon mount, other good options for weapon placement and stuff. Cool freakin' mech.
-Storm Crow. Again, no JJs. That said, best medium mech in the game.
-Arctic Cheetah. Just in case. JJs, fastest clan mech, high torso energy mounts, ECM. Currently considered one of the game's most broken OP mechs.
#6
Posted 20 August 2015 - 11:46 PM
Secondly, lights are hard. Many can have jump jets, and I'm sure you could add some range to em, but they're very unforgiving about mistakes, I would look elsewhere first.
Third, assaults are hard. They have tons of armour, so a bit more forgiving, but without something like the victor or highlander which have jumpjets, they're not very mobile, so mistakes in positioning can get you focus fired and dead.
Classically, one suggests the medium or heavy chassis to start, as they are a bit easier, but you need not adhere to this, just know what your getting into. And personally, I wouldn't suggest the heavies, cuz you'll probably want to stay in normal queue and get a few mechs of your own before joining Community Warfare, and heavies take the longest to get matches more often than not. (One could always bring a book while they wait, or troll the forum, or play around in smurfy. You've options.)
That said, I would suggest first finding a weapon you like, be it ac5s, large lasers, gauss, ppcs or lrms. (the classic ranged weaponry.) Once you know what you like, you can pick your mech based on hardpoints and/or quirks. I personally like Shadowhawk, Wolverine, Hunchback options, as they have a bit of everything as far as hardpoints go. Shadowhawk is light on the energy weapons though, save for the one variant.
If your not sure what you like, the Hunchback is a great test bed. Get the 4G, 4J and... 4P, and then test out ballistics, missiles and energy weapons. Problem is, they don't jump.
Once you know what you like, check the smurfy site already linked, and see what you can build. Then, come back, give us what you like and why, and we can suggest what mechs we like for the same things.
Also, bear in mind, mech choice is based on preference, and because of this, I may be wrong, where thoughts on what you like are concerned. I offer suggestions, that is all. if you don't like the idea of all your weaponry in one torso slot and no jump jets, by all means, look elsewhere than the hunchie. Maybe the wolverine is more to your liking, or perhaps you'll prefer to go heavy an not mind the slightly longer queue times?
~Leone.
Edited by Leone, 20 August 2015 - 11:47 PM.
#7
Posted 20 August 2015 - 11:54 PM
usualy I would recommend Hunchbacks, but they cannot fit Jumpjets, Hunchbacks have excellent quirks for there stock main gun, usualy making it fire faster, at longer range, and sometimes also cooler, there is the 4g with AC20, 4H with AC10, 4j with LRMs, 4p with Lasers, 4SP with SRMs, and the Grid Iron a hero Mech shich must be purchased with real money and has Gauss quirks. Hunchbacks are also relatively inexpensive, costing a total of 6-8 million to outfit because most are better with Standard engines, but you will want to buy a 250 or larger, however get the one engine and share it between variants.
with the hunchy you buy the Mech then apply the Double Heat Sinks and Endo Steel internals upgrades, then use the tonnage saved to drop in a larger engine (I wouly usualy use a 250) and use any remaining tonnage for extra ammo. the main gun is usualy high mounted next to the cockpit and they have realy goos torso twist allowing it to fire almost dead behind with the elite skills finished
the Shadow Hawks can all mount Jumpjets but will be rather expensive to bulid to there full potential as they really need an XL engine (which will cost 4-5.5 million) to mount a decent weapons payload. however most varients can mount energy, missile and ballistic weapons, and the hardpoints for the ballistics are up high, right next to the cockpit, so provided you can see over a ridge you should be able to shoot over it (unlike some other Mechs)
The Griffin, all can mount Jump jets, they can work pretty well with a standard engine (will cost about 1.5-2 million) as most builds are lasers and SRMs which do not weigh much, but bear in mind SRMs are short range weapons, with a maximum range of 270m, and spread out shotgun like so past about 100m some missiles may miss even if you are aimed correctly, especially if you fire a lot of missiles at once, when you have finished the elite skills can fire almost directly behind, variants have a mix of energy and missile hardpoints.
the Wolverine, 1 variant can mount Jump jets, considered one of the best mediums (although I much prefer the Griffin and Hunchback), variants have good quirks, there is 1 for Large Lasers, 1 for SRMs, 1 for AC5s.it has amlost as good torso twist as the Griffin or Hunchback (I think 5 degrees less)
Edited by Rogue Jedi, 21 August 2015 - 01:25 AM.
#8
Posted 21 August 2015 - 01:15 AM
Please note that I absolutely do not suggest a new player should start with LRMs and or longrange support ! Others above suggested mechs far more suitable for beginners. By the way you won't want to start of with stormcrows and the like. Learning in easymode does not teach you anything.
Long range support Griffin: GRF-1N; Stay with the pack and take potshots on targets of oportunity.
Since you need not to fear hurting one of your team members, PPC does no dmg below 90m, stay close to your friends but don't hinder them.
Learn to switch between groupfire and singlefire quickly.
When the fight comes down to brawling distance whatch out for enemys with damaged armor and use your SRMs.
Keep away from lights and fast mediums in this build. Gun for slow Heavys and Assaults. Your PPC hits kill enemy ECMs for some seconds. So if you see an Atlas DDC or a Clan Hellbringer give em hot plasma.
LRM Griffin: GRF-3M; Use your mobility and don't get too far from your team.
You got limited jump to get over smaler obstacles but you cant fly.
If possible get your own locks by using the TAG laser in your arm. It breaks enemy ECM shielding up to 750m
You got 24x30 missles do not waste them on Terrain, carry a UAV if you feel some enemys huddling behind terrain this can be quite devestating.
ALRMS are best fired line of sight. Don't waste ammunition on indirect fire situations with unstable locks. If freindly UAV goes up ( blue cross on the map and enemy blips show up) have at them.
Electronic Warfare: GRF-2N; Your main strength isn't firepower but survivability and deception.
Even if it is tempting, do not wander of alone cheetas and other light ecm vermin will eat you.
Stay with your team and protect them, see what they can not see, hinder enemy lock ons on your team and deliver suppressive fire to every enemy that shows up. You can jump, your large lasers deliver some firepower and your LRMs can deliver some artillery support, while your beagle probe can penetrate enemy ECM at up to 200m ( so you can use your LRMs between 180 and 200m despite enemy ECM ) your own ECM keeps you stealthed.
A variant of this thing may switch the LRMs for large SRMs and the large lasers for mediums.
All of this builds are quite difficult to pilot but since you asked for longrange jumpcappable and support...there you go.
I realy suggest you start with some Hunchy and a bunch of ACs, lasers or SRMs.
Edited by The Basilisk, 21 August 2015 - 01:18 AM.
#9
Posted 21 August 2015 - 06:12 AM
It sounds like I should specifically each of the weapons to see what I like before making a choice. I tried the Raven a few times (with the 2 ERLL) and while I got a few snipes (well within range though -- I found it very hard to hit a moving target at range), those mech are fragile. Pretty sure I want to go IS. I also tried the Griffin (LL + machine guns or something else short ranged) once. Managed to plink away at some stuff, but anytime I tried to close it didn't go well. I do like the jumpjets though. The Trebuchet was ok too. I think the LRMs there launched faster? In any case, pretty sure I got more hits. Haven't tried anything with PPCs yet. There's a Daishi, but it has too many weapon groupings. I can barely handle the 3 (lrm, mpl, lpl) on the Vulture.
Based on the advice here I think I would go for the Hunchback and just try the various loadouts, except for the lack of jumpjets. Is there a way I can add them on later if I wanted? Otherwise, maybe a Griffin or a Victor. Also, should I just get a mech now and start playing "for real", or is it worth looking around a bit more too make sure I get the "perfect one" for me?
#10
Posted 21 August 2015 - 07:02 AM
Kurvi, on 21 August 2015 - 06:12 AM, said:
I really enjoy Wolverines 'cos one for missiles, one for auto cannons and another for lasers. The laser boat does not have JJ's but others do. If you're dead set on choosing a chassis to master I'd highly recommend the Wolverine as you'll get experience using most weapon types. Also... consider getting enough MC for a Mastery Pack and saving your C-Bills to create optimal robots. The truth is that you have no idea how much better a chassis can be until you unlocked the elite tree and achieved double basics, then you'll be wanting radar deprivation, seismic sensor, weapon modules, buffed up UAV's 'n Artillery to make it..... as good as it can be. lol.
spend some time getting to know this website:
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
tons of useful information and you can build without buying! That way you can get an idea of a chassis capabilities down to the last critical slot
Finally, I'll probably get flamed for posting however check this site out too:
http://metamechs.com/
Read over some of the top builds and chassis in the game.. other than that all you can do is observe/play with others in game and learn
Edited by M4NTiC0R3X, 21 August 2015 - 07:12 AM.
#11
Posted 21 August 2015 - 07:19 AM
M4NTiC0R3X, on 21 August 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:
I really enjoy Wolverines 'cos one for missiles, one for auto cannons and another for lasers. The laser boat does not have JJ's but others do. If you're dead set on choosing a chassis to master I'd highly recommend the Wolverine as you'll get experience using most weapon types. Also... consider getting enough MC for a Mastery Pack and saving your C-Bills to create optimal robots. The truth is that you have no idea how much better a chassis can be until you unlocked the elite tree and achieved double basics, then you'll be wanting radar deprivation, seismic sensor, weapon modules, buffed up UAV's 'n Artillery to make it..... as good as it can be. lol.
QFT on the Wolverine. The Mastery Pack isn't a necessity, as you're going to be getting enough c-bills to at least keep buying medium IS mechs as long as you're also working on enough mech XP to get basics, then 43k more to get Elites and Master them as soon as you have 3 variants' Basics done.
However, the modules are extremely expensive, and the Wolverines run XL engines really well once you know how to spread damage (except maybe the 7K brawler), so maybe that Mastery Pack is worth it...
#12
Posted 21 August 2015 - 07:32 AM
Kurvi, on 21 August 2015 - 06:12 AM, said:
unfortunately IS Mechs essential have JumpJet hardpoints if it can fit them, the Hunchback has no JJ haprdopints so cannot fit JumpJets (like about half the Mechs in the game), so there is no way to fit Jumpjets to the Hunchback at current.
if a Clan Mech has Jumpjets they are fixed to the Omnipod so the only way to add or remove them is to swap out the pod, unfortunately most of the Clan Mechs with Jets do not have pods without them (I think the only exceptions are the Timber Wolf and Kit Fox)
#13
Posted 21 August 2015 - 07:59 AM
Kurvi, on 21 August 2015 - 06:12 AM, said:
For a starter mech I would go for the Griffin 2N. The stock loadout is playable, the SRM's will take a bit of targeting practice to use.
It has;
- Jump Jets
- ECM
- Great Hitboxes
You don't need to sink any c-bills into it after you buy it until you finally have 3 Griffins and want to customize them.
Good luck!
Edit; I forgot to post this, the 2N build I'll be using. All short range but it packs a punch, stay with the fat/slow mechs on your team and shoot what they shoot.
Edited by Amsro, 21 August 2015 - 08:14 AM.
#14
Posted 21 August 2015 - 08:20 AM
Good PPC quirks.
Veeeeery good torso twist not only to the sides but also up/down so it's much easier to bring your torso mounted weapons to bear on high and low targets.
1AA Fastest Vindicator variant is decently fast for a medium. My favorite. It's good at long to mid range harrassing.
1X has 3 ballistic slots in left arm. 3x MGs at the end match tears apart exposed internals.
1R has slightly better medium laser quirks than 1AA.
SiB Hero variant has decent quirks for Large lasers. -20% laser duration and 15% better range. Not bad.
I got some advice for you since you like long range harrassing. It's a big textwall but it works if you can get into the right frame of mind.
Non Meta Light Mech Tactics Guide.
Edited by Spleenslitta, 21 August 2015 - 08:22 AM.
#15
Posted 21 August 2015 - 08:56 AM
#16
Posted 21 August 2015 - 09:37 AM
As much as I love Shadow Hawks, and think they're a great chassis to learn on, to work best they really like something like an XL-300 engine. And that alone is 4,900,000 c-bills which, let's face it, is pretty staggering for the space-poor new player.
#17
Posted 21 August 2015 - 09:48 AM
jss78, on 21 August 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:
This is why I'm glad I bought the ON1-M while it was on sale. That same XL 300 works really well in Wolverines.
#18
Posted 21 August 2015 - 01:27 PM
Really tough to recommend a single mech. Your like/dislikes change as you play more, spectate more and see other play styles.
I REALLY think a Hunchback with a STD 200 or STD225 engine, and an AC20 is a very solid starting point for most players. Then you can buy the J model and spam for LRM 10s for fun, then get a 6,7,8 Medium Laser Swayback.
They are tough, they hit hard, have good mobility, and are just overall not lacking anything, short of Jump Jets, which is another system to learn, best added when you develope better battlefield awareness, which in my opinion, is the most import skill to learn in MWO.
Just be patient, rush when rushing is warranted, hold when holding is warranted, and learn with every death, and mostly have fun. The more fun you have, the more you'll play,the more you play the better you'll get.
And lastly... the Firestarter is currently one of the best mechs in the game.. it's also worth your consideratio. It iss really, really easy for new players to struggle in an FSR's because they often overheat and shut down.... alot,.. and don't leverage the JJ all that well.
Enjoi
Edited by Flak Kannon, 21 August 2015 - 01:29 PM.
#19
Posted 21 August 2015 - 10:13 PM
Mockeryangel, on 21 August 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:
OKay, I don't like half the Meta builds all that much myself, and I am the sort of experienced player they are designed for. Problem is, they're build for a different playstyle than I enjoy. I've heard of newbies selling mechs they bought because the meta build they tried wasn't built for em. Alot of the tier lists are based off of skills new players have yet to learn.
It's why I waited before giving a serious mech suggestion to the OP until I had more intel. Those cbills really do slow down after the first 25, and I've watched someone on the forums go through like three or four accounts trying to find a good starting mech cuz they wasted their cadet bonus on mechs they ended up not liking.
Now that said, let's see what we have to work with....
Kurvi, on 21 August 2015 - 06:12 AM, said:
It sounds like I should specifically each of the weapons to see what I like before making a choice. I tried the Raven a few times (with the 2 ERLL) and while I got a few snipes (well within range though -- I found it very hard to hit a moving target at range), those mech are fragile.
Okay, right here, this is good information to base a suggestion off of. Lights are hard, like I said before. They really do teach you alot, but for now, I'd hold off on getting 'em.
Next the large laser. Well... lasers are amongst the easier weapons to aim, since they're hit scan. that said, if your problem is one of keeping the laser on folk, you could look into changing mouse sensitivity. I don't do it, but I know others who swear by low sensitivity. Or it could be a hardware thing. (I've a friend who always builds missile mechs cuz his system can't handle the game. I kept giving him grief, till one lan party we swapped 'puters. He does better on his machine with his builds than I can do with my best mechs, and he'd only been playing a few weeks.)
If it is a hardware thing, then it doesn't leave much room for anything but missiles, since that red box is alot easier to hit. That said, they are their own special weapons systems with hard and soft counters that have entire threads dedicated to em.
Kurvi, on 21 August 2015 - 06:12 AM, said:
Kurvi, on 21 August 2015 - 06:12 AM, said:
WVR-6K is the variant without Jumpjets, but is also the laser variant, so it'd be a chance to see if the lack of jets really hampers your play. Then there's the one ballistics variant, and one for missiles.
Build wise, I would find double heatsinks a worthwhile investment, and each of my wolverines managed to earn their own heatsinks (... I build my mechs... differently than others. We need not go into that, but suffice it to say, even single heatsinked, they did alright for me.) Also, endosteel should be acceptable, since it's cheap enough on the mediums and you'll usually have the room.
I suggest never touching the ferro-fibrous button until you're already satisfied with your build and have the room left.
Likewise, I'd suggest not touching the Artemis button until you're certain you want to go that route. Problem is, it adds weight to the launchers, and then costs to remove as well. Your going to end up spending all your cbills on something, just... you know, make sure it's not something you hafta pay to undo.
~Leone.
Edited by Leone, 21 August 2015 - 10:26 PM.
#20
Posted 22 August 2015 - 07:06 PM
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