12 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Does anyone other than me remember Paul (I think) making a statement in an interview when asked a question about ECM (back when it was first introduced and the party line was that it was fine and working as intended) where he said that he thinks and equipment or mech that is used by everyone is just a good mech or equipment, that it doesnt mean its OP?

Cause I remember the quote I just cant remember where it was from -.- But if I could find it, it would go well to explaining why things like the ACH are released "broken". Or why things that are obviously OP where everyone takes it constantly into battle are passed over for balancing

[Axeface]

I dont know the article you're talking about i'm afraid.
They release things like the ACH because they know it will sell. The proof will be in the nerfs it recieves when it releases for Cbills.

(It's a digusting practice)

Edited by Axeface, 21 August 2015 - 09:05 AM.

[MechaBattler]

The new "Battle value", ignoring the misleading implication of TT, would presumably provide them a means of balancing mechs better on release and in general. But we'll have to see if us peasants warrant a sneak peak any time soon.

[Koniks]

That's the worst case scenario. But I think it's more likely they don't have the best handle on the mechanics that make mechs good or bad. Or at least don't design around them. See the problems with jump jets, their jump jet fix, and their jump jet re-fix. And they still need another re-fix.

At a minimum, they don't test enough or let us test enough to make changes before release.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Google gave me this: http://mwomercs.com/...ical-reasoning/



Oh, here is where that is from: http://mwomercs.com/...f-guardian-ecm/

[stjobe]

Praetor Knight, on 21 August 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

Oh, here is where that is from: http://mwomercs.com/...f-guardian-ecm/

Jesus wept, I'd forgotten about all the bovine manure that spewed forth from that mouth.

"ECM is [...] very close to where we want it to be" - it's not anywhere near where players want it to be though...

"ECM really only affects 2 weapon systems" - no Paul, it completely negates two whole classes of weapons, and hampers team play rather severely with its denial of target info/target sharing.

"ECM is not as big of an issue as it was before [PPCs turned them off for 4 seconds]" - It was ridiculously badly balanced when you put it in, and that change didn't make it better balanced. It's still ridiculously unbalanced to this day.

Edited by stjobe, 21 August 2015 - 09:42 AM.

[Nightmare1]

I'm just worried that the BattleValue will be implemented like a second tonnage limit.

"Here's your 50 ton HBK. Do not exceed 50 tons. Oh, and your BV Limit is 100. Your chassis is worth 40 BV points, your engine 20, and your AC/20 is also worth 20. Looks like you've only got 20 points left there to try and fit on ammo, MGs, MLs, DHS, and Endo, each of which has its own BV. Good luck with that."

Edited by Nightmare1, 21 August 2015 - 09:46 AM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

stjobe, on 21 August 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Jesus wept, I'd forgotten about all the bovine manure that spewed forth from that mouth.

"ECM is [...] very close to where we want it to be" - it's not anywhere near where players want it to be though...

"ECM really only affects 2 weapon systems" - no Paul, it completely negates two whole classes of weapons, and hampers team play rather severely with its denial of target info/target sharing.

"ECM is not as big of an issue as it was before [PPCs turned them off for 4 seconds]" - It was ridiculously badly balanced when you put it in, and that change didn't make it better balanced. It's still ridiculously unbalanced to this day.

Rereading the Command Chair post and then thinking about the 90 M change that's been proposed does have me concerned about what is being evaluated for the upcoming re-balancing.

Still trying to hope for the best though.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

MechaBattler, on 21 August 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

The new "Battle value", ignoring the misleading implication of TT, would presumably provide them a means of balancing mechs better on release and in general. But we'll have to see if us peasants warrant a sneak peak any time soon.

no no; this was way back in CB or OB whenever ECM came out

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Praetor Knight, on 21 August 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

Google gave me this: http://mwomercs.com/...ical-reasoning/



Oh, here is where that is from: http://mwomercs.com/...f-guardian-ecm/

I think chronilogically it might have been prior to this because it was before there were counters, when they were trying to say ECM was fine without them

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

I think chronilogically it might have been prior to this because it was before there were counters, when they were trying to say ECM was fine without them

Hmm... found this: http://mwomercs.com/...ey-bryan-ekman/

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Praetor Knight, on 21 August 2015 - 11:32 AM, said:

Hmm... found this: http://mwomercs.com/...ey-bryan-ekman/

Yeah those are hilarious in their own right tho. Dammit was it when he did the article with that german online magazine? Or the one where he said the writer misquoted him when the players got pissed about what he said lol

Quote

MWO: What do you personally add to MechWarrior Online development?

[DAVID] An eye for detail and the ability to quickly learn and assimilate the lore of a fictional universe and its game mechanics. I get to make sure that everything we include in MechWarrior Online matches, at the very least, the spirit and intent of the BattleTech game and universe.

[PAUL] As mentioned above, experience with the F2P model and a strong background in gameplay balancing.

[BRYAN] I have a few roles, primarily I’m what they call the Product Owner and I represent the voice of the customer and make sure everything we make has value for both the end user and business. As a Creative Director, I’m responsible for managing the design, art, and level teams. As a partner/owner of PGI, I also get to work closely with Russ on business matters, although he is the main business mastermind.

Quote

MWO: How much of the table-top have you played? How do you convert that experience to a digital video game? (or do you at all?)

[DAVID] I first got into BattleTech around age 13 or so, when my older cousin gave me his BattleTech, CityTech, and AeroTech boxed sets along with a bunch of other sourcebooks and miniatures. Unfortunately, I didn’t get to play too many games of it back then as my friends weren’t really into it. Later, when I did have friends into those sorts of things, we played different games instead. Though I do still have some of those books at my desk right now for reference.
A few years ago (I refuse to believe it’s nearly been a decade) I was excited when Wizkids came out with their MechWarrior: Dark Age game and I jumped on it as I was (and still am) a fan of their other games. But that game didn’t hold my interest for too long (playing with IndustrialMechs and a mishmash of random infantry didn’t make for the best gameplay). And now those miniatures just decorate my desk. For those who are undoubtedly freaking out right now, don’t worry, the Dark Age isn’t going to have any influence over MechWarrior Online (or at least not for a very very very long time).
The last year or so has been a BattleTech renaissance for me. Not only am I working on MWO but I’ve been able to play some tabletop games here at work and have been dubbed the office “rules guy” who has taught and reffed games for the rest of the team.
As for converting the tabletop rules into a video game, it can be done but there are several things that need to be kept in mind.
The first is to figure out what a specific tabletop component was meant to represent, or how to interpret a tabletop mechanic into a real time game. Attacks in the tabletop game would randomly hit different sections of an enemy ’Mech; this doesn’t need to be recreated in a video game because it’s fully represented by the skill of the player. Though this change may need to be taken into consideration later as it’s suddenly a lot easier to hit a ’Mech’s head than it ever was in the tabletop game. Another example would be torso twisting. In the tabletop game it’s a fairly abstract mechanic that lets you instantly rotate your firing arc a set amount before instantly snapping back, and with no effect on other people shooting you. In a video game, this becomes a lot more complex but still preserves and improves the effect of being able to walk in one direction while you shoot in another.
The second consideration is the question, “Is it fun in a video game?” In the tabletop game, there’s what amounts to a random chance that your ’Mech will fall down and take damage every time it enters water, and every 30 meters it travels through the water. On top of that, every time your ’Mech has fallen and tries to stand (in the water or not), there’s a random chance that it will slip and fall back down again, taking even more damage. This isn’t fun for the player, especially since they don’t have full control over piloting their ’Mech in the way a ‘real’ MechWarrior would. And this leads to the third consideration…
Limitations. While the tabletop game has limitations, a video game also has a set of its own. They generally involve manpower and complexity. Manpower is the most straight forward; our team is only so large and can only work on so much at once so, at the very least, we have to prioritize. Though the beauty of the free-to-play model is that, given enough time, we can overcome this limitation and release a future update. The complexity limit is trickier to overcome. There’s only so much screen space, so there’s a limit to what we can show the player at once and still have them understand it quickly. Conversely, unless the player has their own neural helmet (though I’ve seen some of the cockpits you guys have built, so it wouldn’t surprise me if someone had one), even a joystick/throttle/rudder pedal setup is going to be limited in terms of controls and can’t simulate the piloting needed to avoid falling down from entering water. Plus we still have to keep the game playable for those who only have a keyboard and mouse.

[PAUL] To be honest, only a few hours. It was enough to get the intricacies of the play style down while Bryan and Dave cheated me and took out my Hunchback so I rage quit and never played again. It was however an enjoyable time and we made sure everyone on the team experienced it.

[BRYAN] After reading David’s novel, no comment.

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 21 August 2015 - 11:38 AM.

[stjobe]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

Yeah those are hilarious in their own right tho.

Yeah, isn't it great? The guy balancing the game doesn't have a single clue about the source material of what he's balancing, and the "creative director" has even less.