5 replies to this topic

[BenEEeees VAT GROWN BACON]

Hi all,

I've been working on a very rough redesign for DCMS ranks for a variety of reasons. The foremost one is that differing levels of ranks distinguished only by colour would not work in any military organisation because it is not practical and will cause confusion. Should an insignia get discoloured or dirtied on the field, or if you were colour-blind then it becomes very difficult to identify quickly if the person shouting at you is a Private, Kashira-Sergeant or Major!

This is how the original ranks look like in black and white (thanks Paladin Brewer for the compiled list on his site):


Immediately we notice problems with having common symbols for multiple ranks. Armed Forces do use different colours for SAME ranks on different uniforms; like gold for parade uniform, black for combat dress and a big giant one for PT, but will never use different colours and the same symbols for DIFFERENT ranks.





Also as pointed out, the "fourth" officer rank is missing for some reason. I think it was a mistake on the part of the writers/designers when they removed "2nd Lieutenant" but forgot to shift the subsequent ranks down by 1 number. An alternative explanation is that Japanese people have a superstitious fear of the number "4" and hence it was skipped but that is really offensively racist and doesn't account for the presence of Gun-sho and Sho-sho.

My redesign incorporates existing elements of the original ranks (I really like the use of numerical Kanji), draws a little from Japanese culture and is arranged roughly like today's JSDF ranks:

COLOURED TEXT DENOTES ORIGINAL RANK COLOUR.


The diamond bands are based of the hilts of kantanas, symbolising the base of a sword.


Continued use of original Kanji numerals to tie it to past lore.


The sword representing the fighting edge of the DCMS. A symbol of strength and pride and the soul of a warrior.


For those closest to the Combine, they wear the crest itself. These people are responsible for large swaths of territory and over many lives.

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I know that changing things in canonical lore can be upsetting to the community but I feel that this area requires an update in order for the DCMS to make sense as an organisation. Well, what do you guys think? Do I have a case?

[CmdrSpider]

Nice work and your correct simple color changes would only confuse things. I can see my biggest problem will be in learning each House and potentially merc units ranking symbols, but that will come. What's confusing about DCMS ranks is their similarity to each other. It would be most helpful if there were some significant differences between the NCO's and Officers.

Keep up the good work.

[Kyone Akashi]

Hmm, you do have a point about the colors. Then again, the Imperial Japanese Army already did it that way, though I suppose the "stripes" would still make it easier to differentiate. And whilst I do like the general idea of a symbol relying more on easily discernible symbol combinations, I feel I should point out that the larger combinations take up a lot of space. The Sho-ko, for example, looks as if it would take up the entire side of the collar if placed horizontally - and if it would be placed vertically, the symbols would have to be so small that it gets difficult to make them out, possibly even different sizes for the various ranks. A possible way to avoid this issue would be to "condense" them like the modern JSDF did (see WO to Col. here). Also, I would recommend re-thinking the use of the Combine icon as a rank pin, as it is already used on the other side of the collar (provided you wish to stick to the same uniforms).

Personally, I have no intention of deviating from the canon, but I still think your efforts are commendable!

As for the official insignia becoming discolored, I think that the difference between enlisted/NCO and officer ranks at least may not only exist in the colors, but also their uniform and equipment? Or perhaps it might be intentional that it is harder to discern them - both as a matter of discipline, as well as to discourage enemy snipers? When you have a lot of "three bars" on the same spot, which of them is the officer?
Granted, the latter seems somewhat incompatible with the argument about uniform/equipment, plus I think most sniper rifles would allow for so much zoom that the color can be made out as well.

On the subject of using differently colored icons for different ranks, I also know that in the US, the Major and the Lt. Colonel share the same rank pin, just that one is silver whilst the other is golden. I am not sure how much this is an issue in the field, especially as this pin also exists in a black version. Maybe someone from the US could explain. Domo!

[Hayden]

You know, there are some advantages to the ranks being difficult to differentiate. For example, in combat it could be more difficult for an opponent (specifically snipers) to single out officers and higher ranking NCOs from the grunts. As is, when Minouru Kurita was gunned down he would have had a very distinct rank anyway, the Coordinator rank can be said to be truly unique.

Furthermore, I referenced some books that I had on hand, and the "missing" rank seems to be an omission by whoever made the chart, rather than the line developers for BT. I referenced the 1987 House Kurita handbook as well as the 2nd Edition Mechwarrior RPG handbook. Both of these sources list the omitted rank as (Senior Master) Chief Petty Officer (The "Senior Master" part was only in the '87 Kurita handbook).

To Kyone Akashi: in the field, Majors' have cloth insignia that is sort of a bronze color, while the Lt. Colonels' is black. As far as I know, it's not an issue to tell them apart, as one is significantly darker than the other. On dress uniforms the insignia are metal, bronze for the Majors, and a white/silver metal for the Lt. Colonels.

[Kyone Akashi]

Hayden, on 06 July 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

To Kyone Akashi: in the field, Majors' have cloth insignia that is sort of a bronze color, while the Lt. Colonels' is black.

Aha! I thought all ranks would all wear black insignia in the field so as to not attract attention when trying to blend in with the environment - the German Armed Forces have the same principle (all black in the field, but all white in the base, or silver if dress uniform).

Thank you for explaining - and apologies for the short off-topic!

[SOGNeon]

"Mechwarriors need not wear rank insignia while fighting"<FMDC p.20>
we wear our rank insignia only when we do not fight, on our non combat uniform, and on our dress uniform.

that aside, many (possibly most) of the rank insignia throughout the game, not just house kurita, developed around dress uniforms. when you consider that the battle tech universe centers around vehicular combat it is understandable. infantry grunts in battletech are largely just fluff acknowledged only because in no foreseeable future is the infantry grunt actually going to be obsolete.

your senior master was omitted as it does not apply to mechs, which is the aspect focused on by nearly all material I have sen on the web. it is included in all the books, and is described as an administrative position held by a singular person per regiment. as shujin, and move up from there, mechwarriors have no actual need of dealing with the senior master, and the office has no application in the field unless you are playing a support unit driving a truck that delivers ammo to the mech base.

it was a good effort, but in mech combat (in cannon, and to a lesser extent in table top) one can generally one can tell the unit command by the mech they drive. traditionally HQ and command lance units where the assault and heavy mechs while the rank and file are the light and medium with a small degree of heavy depending on the unit. if you are looking to take out the command, look for the big guys. in MW games, this is not so much the case as we play the mechs we like, though with MWO it appears we are going to be in a more C3 like environment where battlefield data is shared more extensively, (though beyond line of sight rules I believe predate C3 systems and where not directly linked to them, the C3 system to me was billed as a more efficient network for such abilities)