19 replies to this topic

[L3mming2]

in my opinion it would be gr8 if the range of all lasers was adjusted using this formula

new range = 100 + ((old range -100) * 0,6)

reasons,

- it would buff srm's
- it would buff dps ballistics
- it would nerf current mid range laser + gauss meta
- it would buff ppc's (but they would still be kept in chek due to there masive heat)
- wile it would be a buff to gauss in some aspects, the reason for the abundance of gauss would be gone, (the good sinergy between hot long range (light) lasers and heavy but cold long range guass)

what do you think?

[Alek Ituin]

So basically:

Drop kick ER lasers/PPC's in the balls.
Kick mid-range lasers in the teeth.
Slap short-range lasers on the wrist.

I ran the formula, a 675m optimal becomes 445m. While that forces synergy between AC/10's and ERLL's, that also defeats the purpose of mounting an ERLL in the first place.

[Spleenslitta]

OP. Please just give it to us with a teaspoon. What range do you want for each laser?

I'll only say my opinion once i see specific numbers.

[L3mming2]

Alek Ituin, on 22 August 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

So basically:

Drop kick ER lasers/PPC's in the balls.
Kick mid-range lasers in the teeth.
Slap short-range lasers on the wrist.

I ran the formula, a 675m optimal becomes 445m. While that forces synergy between AC/10's and ERLL's, that also defeats the purpose of mounting an ERLL in the first place.

not ppc's thats not lasers, and you can still put a +10% range module on. and ofc. if every one has shorter range lasers..

and 489.5 m (without any quirks) is perfectly acceptable to me

Edited by L3mming2, 22 August 2015 - 10:31 AM.

[Mazzyplz]

you shouldn't even touch large, medium or small lasers.

the problem with laser vomit is strictly pulses.


nerf LPL back to 10.5 and that will be a start.

then you can nerf the modules for LPL and MPL range, those are the variables that break the weapon - before we had the modules it was fine, the extra range you get from lvl5 LPL module really makes it comparable to a large laser.

don't nerf the pulse range per se, nerf the modules

the range modules i speak of ofc

[Koniving]

So 100 + ((old range -100) * 0,6)...

That's 100+ (270 - 100 * 0.6)
100+ (170*0.6)
100+(102)
202 meters new medium laser range.

GREAT! I feel wonderful knowing this would be the new range of our weapon systems.

How about something along the lines of making heat matter, or a 30 threshold, or something that just makes a bit more sense?

A limited heat threshold -- that is alpha strike limit or maximum heat before the mech shuts down or has problems -- would cut laser vomit down to either lasers being chain fired or a great reduction in the frequency of lasers being vomited. Instead of 6 medium lasers being fired 3 times in a row within 8 seconds... you'd probably fire them once and wait 6 seconds to get brave enough to try again.

This would make SRMs matter, as they are higher damage for lower heat and could be fired more frequently.
This would make DPS autocannons significantly more useful, as their heat is spread out rather than all at once.
This would hurt pulse lasers as their heat is much more front-loaded.
This would encourage some use of standard lasers, as their heat is spread out. But their alpha strikes would drastically drop.
This would help manage PPC and ER PPC spam to the point that their nerfs could be removed.
Gauss Rifles would remain completely unaffected.
Single shot autocannons of the higher end of the stick -- especially the AC/20 -- might actually get shunned and requested to be turned into burst firing weapons to spread their heat. At the very least cries will beg for their heat to be reduced. Of interesting note: Ghost heat on twin AC/20 could be dropped.

A range reduction won't do jack for the problems MWO has.

Edited by Koniving, 22 August 2015 - 10:38 AM.

[L3mming2]

Koniving, on 22 August 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

So 100 + ((old range -100) * 0,6)...

That's 100+ (270 - 100 * 0.6)
100+ (170*0.6)
100+(102)
202 meters new medium laser range.

GREAT! I feel wonderful knowing this would be the new range of our weapon systems.

How about something along the lines of making heat matter, or a 30 threshold, or something that just makes a bit more sense?

look at it from the bright side a CERML would only be 281.2 m... so in that context 202 aint bad..

[Mazzyplz]

if you make heat matter then it only matters to energy mechs; so that's not a good option at all.

unless you give gauss the heat of an erppc. because those weapons face each other at long ranges.
so you will just punish the energy boat?

NO.

heat will never be a solution to weapons of any kind because what it will do is just make energy mechs completely useless, and people will just switch to using ammo for low heat.

i wish we NEVER EVER see the often made suggestion of "making heat matter"
it will only put a lot of mechs in the garbage pile, and people who don't like lrm or autocannon to play a lot less

[Khobai]

the problem isnt so much the optimal ranges but rather the maximum ranges

x2 max range is too much

[Mazzyplz]

Khobai, on 22 August 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

the problem isnt so much the optimal ranges but rather the maximum ranges

x2 max range is too much

this is why the laser modules should only work 0.5x

[FupDup]

Let's see what the OP's numbers would give us for new ranges:

SL: 121
ML: 202
LL: 310
ERLL: 445
SPL: 106
MPL: 172
LPL: 259

CERSL: 160
CERML: 283
CERLL: 484
CSPL: 139
CMPL: 238
CLPL: 400

How about no...

[FupDup]

And frankly, how did he even think up that very specific and peculiar formula anyways? Did he smoke something or lick some toads?

[Koniving]

Mazzyplz, on 22 August 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

i wish we NEVER EVER see the often made suggestion of "making heat matter"
it will only put a lot of mechs in the garbage pile, and people who don't like lrm or autocannon to play a lot less

Would you be so easy to throw your energy mechs in the trash, if say, the beam time of a medium laser was 0.2 seconds instead of 1 second? I would also reduce small and medium heat back to canonical values. That is 1 heat for a small laser, 3 heat for a medium laser. Not this 2 and 4 nonsense!

What about when you consider that you can get 30 damage per shot for 6 tons?
Or 30 damage per shot for 30 tons? (Gauss)
Or 30 damage per shot at 21 tons? (PPC)
Or 45 damage per shot at 21 tons (Clan ER PPC)
Or 30 damage per shot at 48 tons (AC/5)?

The caveat of energy weapons is heat. They are super light, they are meant to be super effective, and they can fire in very large quantities. Bigger lasers do more damage, have more range, and generate more heat. What controls the mass of small and medium lasers? The fact that at some point you'll reach that thermal limit which currently is ANYWHERE between 50 and 127 depending on the heatsinks you pack in.

The threshold shouldn't change, it just gives a scaling advantage to bigger mechs.

[L3mming2]

FupDup, on 22 August 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:

And frankly, how did he even think up that very specific and peculiar formula anyways? Did he smoke something or lick some toads?

my toad ran away

[Mazzyplz]

you could just nerf the mpl and spl cooldown modules

[FupDup]

L3mming2, on 22 August 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

my toad ran away

[L3mming2]

Spleenslitta, on 22 August 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

OP. Please just give it to us with a teaspoon. What range do you want for each laser?

I'll only say my opinion once i see specific numbers.

FupDup, on 22 August 2015 - 10:45 AM, said:

Let's see what the OP's numbers would give us for new ranges:

SL: 121
ML: 202
LL: 310
ERLL: 445
SPL: 106
MPL: 172
LPL: 259

CERSL: 160
CERML: 283
CERLL: 484
CSPL: 139
CMPL: 238
CLPL: 400

How about no...

[Y E O N N E]

I would much rather ranges ended up something like this:

SL: 185
ML: 350
LL: 475
ERLL: 690
SPL: 135
MPL: 260
LPL: 355

C-ERSL: 310
C-ERML: 460
C-ERLL: 600
C-SPL: 245
C-MPL: 300
C-LPL: 415

...but max range is only 1.5x rather than 2x. Naturally, these changes are also accompanied by adjustments in heat, cool-down, and duration.

[MechaBattler]

Well they nerfed AC range because it was too dominant. But that was before the Clans with their super laser alphas and the balance attempt with the quirks to IS lasers.

But I guess we'll see what they do with the "big rebalance". So curious to see how far they'll go to achieve balance.

[Nightmare1]

OP is crazy. I say no to this proposal.

Also, if you actually want to be taken seriously, then try spelling, "great" instead of "gr8." It's hard to give anyone credibility for a serious proposal when they won't take the time to spell it out properly.