19 replies to this topic

[PraetorGix]

Simply put I've seen this idea on the thread about the new quirks attempting to tame the TBR and SCR. PGI seems to be oblivious to the fact that laser boating is not an option because it's cool, but because clan players have NO OTHER VIABLE OPTION. They are attempting to kill the last effective configuration we clanners have in the game, solely to bring down these two mechs. I agree that they should be toned down, but not this way.
Now, if negative quirks were activated only after a certain number of the same weapon was equipped, then boating would be kept in check while modest builds and lore builds would be left in peace, with the added benefit that the whole range of bad clan mechs (that is, 90% of them) would have more breathing room.
Please, PGI, it's already suspicious that these nails in the coffin came when wave 3 is near. The TBR was OP until it was available for Cbills. Do we have to think that the Cauldron-Born will suffer the same fate after you collected our money? I hope you will reconsider, especially when there are many better options that do not affect your credibility and image.

EDIT: it seems many are making wrong assumptions based on me giving not enough details.
1. This is not meant exclusively for Clans.
2. This COULD be implemented for possitive quirks too, to enhance a bit some tier 2 for example.
3. This would be based on a per-chassis/pod model, just like current quirks.
4. Lore based boats could have a higher treshold before negative quirks kick in. For example Nova Prime could equip up to 6 lasers without penalties (except ghost heat) 8 lasers with a moderate penalty and 12 lasers only with severe drawbacks (i.e. about the same it has now)

TLDR: Further nerfing the TBR and SCR essentially kills the last option clans have, which is laser building. Apply quirks only when many of the same weapons have been installed on the mech.

Edited by Cmdr Hurrell, 18 May 2015 - 11:51 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

While i don't agree that Clan only have boating as their only effective configurations i do agree that doing this could help.
If it is implemented it should go for both IS and Clan mechs.

But if you ask me they should remove ghost heat and replace it with something i've seen mentioned several times in this part of the forums.
Making mechs sluggish, slow and with danger of ammo explosions at higher heat levels.
It's canonical and it would destroy all forms of boating except gauss boats.

Mission accomplished PGI. You would have removed boating and stayed closer to canon all with just that one change.

[PraetorGix]

Well, I didn't try to convey this was for clans only. It should be global. And to let it be clear, positive quirks could work like this too. For example, quicker cooldown for PPC as long as you use 2 or less.

[Spleenslitta]

Cmdr Hurrell, on 18 May 2015 - 01:35 AM, said:

Well, I didn't try to convey this was for clans only. It should be global. And to let it be clear, positive quirks could work like this too. For example, quicker cooldown for PPC as long as you use 2 or less.

Well....I think that part might be counter productive in some cases. PGI is trying to remove boats that go far beyond whats in the canon.
In any case your idea is not a bad one. I'm kind of neutral...maybe i should not even have voted to be honest.
i'm not certain which side of the fence i want to jump down on.

[Winddancer]

I definately support this idea. For both IS and Clan and also on both directions, meaning positive and negative quirks.

Once a threshold is passed, which should be based on canon, then "terrible things" can happen, such as ghost heat, absence of positive quirks etc.

Maybe go with a "another-one can surely fit" approach, meaning if you canon states that X weapons of the same kind are used, X+1 still works and is therefore the threshold and only X+2 or more will then have the maleffects.

Even the maleffects could be gradual, so that a player may decide wether he can live with it or not.

[VinJade]

there are some mechs that was designed to be boaters in some extent.
There are Cats that have no other weapon slots for anything other than Missiles for example.
than there is the Nova Prime which was designed around its ER Medium Lasers (12 total 6 in each arm).

then there is the Hunchback which is built around its medium Lasers.

so this would harm these mechs and others like them.

Also it seems this would heavily affect Missile 'boats' which was built to handle fighting from range (which is a normal tactic in the board game as well).

Granted I don't run a mech without an energy weapon back up but still there are mechs like I mentioned above.

so I would have to say no.

[MechWarrior849305]

Cmdr Hurrell, on 18 May 2015 - 01:07 AM, said:

Simply put I've seen this idea on the thread about the new quirks attempting to tame the TBR and SCR. PGI seems to be oblivious to the fact that laser boating is not an option because it's cool, but because clan players have NO OTHER VIABLE OPTION. They are attempting to kill the last effective configuration we clanners have in the game, solely to bring down these two mechs. I agree that they should be toned down, but not this way.
Now, if negative quirks were activated only after a certain number of the same weapon was equipped, then boating would be kept in check while modest builds and lore builds would be left in peace, with the added benefit that the whole range of bad clan mechs (that is, 90% of them) would have more breathing room.
Please, PGI, it's already suspicious that these nails in the coffin came when wave 3 is near. The TBR was OP until it was available for Cbills. Do we have to think that the Cauldron-Born will suffer the same fate after you collected our money? I hope you will reconsider, especially when there are many better options that do not affect your credibility and image.

TLDR: Further nerfing the TBR and SCR essentially kills the last option clans have, which is laser building. Apply quirks only when many of the same weapons have been installed on the mech.

Simply don't buy Wave III. Vote with money, you will never lose this way I was going to buy, and now happy that I wasn't stupid enough to do this.

[Gladewolf]

no more ghost nerfs please

[OznerpaG]

this is going in a slight different direction from what the OP wrote, but he is 100% right that the problem lies in the fact energy boating is the best clan option

also i bought wave3 because for me it's completely obvious the mechs are better than the storm/timber, but if the storm/timber are getting nerfed now we all know damn well what's going to happen to the wave3 mechs after release

unacceptable.

PGI does not play their own game - it's takes 2000 games+ to get a solid idea of how the game really works. what are the guesses on how many games each of the staff has played? we'd be lucky if they all have 2000 combined

asking the competitive players for advice or seeing what mechs they are playing is WRONG - competitive play is like apples to oranges compared to PUG play which is (supposed to be) the great majority of the population in MWO. in competitive play you can stand out in the middle of the open with low slung weapons because it's a team and they focus fire on 1 target at a time. in PUG being in the open because your weapons are firing at knee level gets you killed - FAST. so why is PGI giving quirks to mechs with high weapon mounts like the stalker and the thunderbolt who need no help, but ignoring horrible useless mechs like the 70t cataphract 4X that goes slower than a stalker and has it's weapon arms in the dirt?

base quirks on the height of the weapon mounts on each mech

as for the clans adding nerfs to individual omnipods is dumb and very unclear.

in a similar vein to the OP, i say ditch all quirks and put a single or 2 blanket penalties or bonus on an entire chassis - done. forget the extra range for this 1 weapon, velocity for that 1 weapon. simplify:

timberwolf: +5% heat on all energy weapons - done
stormcrow: +5% heat on all energy weapons - done
nova: -10% heat on all energy weapons - done
adder: -15% heat on all energy weapons - done
summoner: -15% cooldown on all weapons - done

etc

adjusting 2000 quirks on a single mech as it stands now is...insane. keep it simple and if adjustments are needed that's simple too

Edited by JagdFlanker, 18 May 2015 - 11:07 AM.

[PraetorGix]

VinJade, on 18 May 2015 - 02:47 AM, said:

so this would harm these mechs and others like them.

Uhm no, because this is not talking about a fixed universal number. Why would it be that way? No one's trying to kill diversity (except maybe PGI themselves) so it would make no sense to cut every mech with the same scissor. Underperforming mechs that are supposed to boat could have a higher treshold.

[Nightmare1]

I say no because boating is the only viable option for a lot of chassis. What else are you going to do with an HBK-4P, BLR-1S, CPT-A1, etc?

[Speedy Plysitkos]

voted yes, but it should be limited to only "some" builds. (only for heavy/assault only)
ie:boats = 6x UAC5, 2xAC20+2xUAC20, 5x LRM5 spam (or make there jamm, or fire in the loadchamber, or anything that will prevent from lrm spam constantly.

[VinJade]

@Titannium
LRM 'spam' is what missile boats are for.
they already have a slightly slower reload time which helps balance them out, also ECMs more or less renders LRMs worthless against any enemy mech within the ECM's range.

A friend of mine runs a TW with LRM fives in order to save space for things like jump jets, larger weapons, more ammo, TC, ect.

So as you can see LRM 5s can be seen as wight savings as it is Clan Omnis having everything fixed save for some items(depending on the Pods used) so saving as much weight as times is a must.

also think about it there are mechs that come with 2- 4 Missile points so I see nothing wrong with LRM 5s and not having something bad happen to them.

[Chadamir Fitzkrieg]

I run a Hunchback-4P primarily, it's insanely hot as it is. No.

[VinJade]

@Thaddeus
I think we will be on the losing end.
as it clearly is mainly an anti-LRM thread and blanketing like they do is trying to hide that is what this thread really is all about.

S/LRM & Energy boats already have problems.

S/LRMs has ammo & heat to deal with
Energy boats have to worry about over heating which balance them out.

[theborgeffect]

I voted no , but with a caveat. Mechs designed to be boats should not be affected by this.

[VinJade]

@theborgeffect
That would be hard to enforce when it comes to omnis as well as mechs like the Stalker & Cat lines.

Those two lines are Missile support platforms regardless of them having lasers on them.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

@VinJade,..... i dunno, from my point of view, it shouldnt be constant....

[Burktross]

GHoOoOoOoOST QUIRKS!?

[Kalimaster]

Here is a suggestion. Stop trying to Nerf everything. Find ways to improve Mechs.